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Forums - Sports Discussion - The NFL Thread 2018: The New England Patriots win Super Bowl LIII

 

Who Will Win Super Bowl LIII?

Saints 5 21.74%
 
Chiefs 2 8.70%
 
Rams 3 13.04%
 
Patriots 9 39.13%
 
Cowboys 2 8.70%
 
Chargers 1 4.35%
 
Eagles 1 4.35%
 
Colts 0 0%
 
Total:23
Chris Hu said:
burninmylight said:

NO


 

Harden's numbers are way more impressive he will end up having the highest points per game scoring average since Kobe Bryant averaged 35.40 ppg in 05-06.  And he is putting up those numbers in the still vastly superior Western Conference where there is really only one terrible team which is the Suns.  Meanwhile in the East there are four terrible teams the Cavs, the Hawks, The Bulls and the Knicks and more then likely 2 to three teams with sub 500 records will make it into the playoffs while in the West 2 to three teams with winning records will miss the playoffs.

We still have exactly half of one season to go, buddy. I highly doubt that PPG average stays that high, especially once Chris Paul returns. Since you're comparing Harden to Kobe's records, how about that 1-17marksmanship from 3 against Orlando last night?

Giannis is on pace to finish the season with the most dunks since prime Shaq in '01-'02, is shooting a higher FG% than Harden (57.9 to 43.4) and has a high eFG% (59.1 to 54), and they are both tied at fourth in the league with the same number of total FGs made through 39 games. However, while Harden leads the league in total FGA by a wide margin (29 highter than #2), Giannis leads the leage in 2-point FG made, while Harden isn't even in the top-20. You're going to say, "But threes are worth more than dunks!," but I will remind you sir that a dunk is the most sucecssful and efficient, therefore the most prized and optimal shot in all of basketball.

James Harden leads the league in 3PM, 3PA (by about 124 more than #2, Steph Curry), and FG missed, which tells us that Harden is getting to that PPG average and way, way, way  more chances than anyone else in the league. He also leads the league in FTM and FTA , although Giannis is #4 and #6  in those fields, respectively. Harden's game is predicated on getting to the line though, and he fishes for drawing fouls. Giannis just happens to get there because he's such a dominant monster in the paint and in transition. That matters to voters.

In other relevant stats, Giannis is fourth in the league in DREB, ninth in total REB, and 15th in blocks. He's also averaging a double-double. Harden is fourth in the league in assists and third in steals. He may be leading the league in total scoring, but he is not averaging a double-double. Harden is first in the league in TO, while Giannis is third. Oh, and I've been saving this bombshell for last: Giannis has the third highest defensive rating in the league at 99.4, and is tied for the lead league in defensive win shares. Harden isn't in the top-20 in either. That's not a big man-only stat either, as there are a few guards in that list, like Russell Westbrook and Victor Oladipo. In total WS, Giannis sits right ahead of Harden at 7.1 to 6.9, which puts them at third and fourth in the league. WS is a stat that considers your overall contribution to your team's victories, so it's saying that overall, Giannis is more important to his team. In WS/48 minutes, Giannis is second, while Harden is sixth. In Offensive Box Plus/Minus, Harden is league leader while Giannis is 11th, but Giannis is league leader in Defensive Box Plus/Minues, while Harden is out of the top-20.

So you can look at PPG and call it a day, but there are people looking at the entire stat line and impact on the game a lot harder and seeing that Giannis is just as important to his team's success as Harden.

As far as team records go, the Bucks have the second best record in the entire league, second only to a team that they have gone 2-1 in head-to-head matchups this season, and who have also played three more games than the Bucks, so that team (Raptors) claims the honor of best record in the league because it has had three more chances to get its percentage higher.

I will also inform you that the Bucks are the only team in the entire league that have not lost more than one game at a time, having suffered no losing streaks period. That includes two trips out West, playing the Raptors thrice, the Celtics twice, and most of the WC. Where Harden puts up his individual stat line is a seperate conversation from where his team is in the conference, which conference is superior, and how that effects standings. Many of those EC teams have bad records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Many of the WC teams have so-so records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Giannis is having a bigger impact on his team's breakaway success than Harden is on his team.

So is either the clear-cut MVP? Probably not, but let's pump our breaks on that kind of talk.



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Chris Hu said:
Brady was 7-0 against Rivers before today's game which made it surprising that so many experts actually picked the Chargers to win that game.

MTZehvor made the point earlier that they just did it for the publicity. I can definitely see it, if they actually picked the Chargers... Brady is 28-10 in playoffs, with many of those losses in the Super Bowl or against Peyton Manning.

It is looking like experts will favor the Chiefs too, so it is time for Mahomes to show his stuff.



burninmylight said:
Chris Hu said:

Harden's numbers are way more impressive he will end up having the highest points per game scoring average since Kobe Bryant averaged 35.40 ppg in 05-06.  And he is putting up those numbers in the still vastly superior Western Conference where there is really only one terrible team which is the Suns.  Meanwhile in the East there are four terrible teams the Cavs, the Hawks, The Bulls and the Knicks and more then likely 2 to three teams with sub 500 records will make it into the playoffs while in the West 2 to three teams with winning records will miss the playoffs.

We still have exactly half of one season to go, buddy. I highly doubt that PPG average stays that high, especially once Chris Paul returns. Since you're comparing Harden to Kobe's records, how about that 1-17marksmanship from 3 against Orlando last night?

Giannis is on pace to finish the season with the most dunks since prime Shaq in '01-'02, is shooting a higher FG% than Harden (57.9 to 43.4) and has a high eFG% (59.1 to 54), and they are both tied at fourth in the league with the same number of total FGs made through 39 games. However, while Harden leads the league in total FGA by a wide margin (29 highter than #2), Giannis leads the leage in 2-point FG made, while Harden isn't even in the top-20. You're going to say, "But threes are worth more than dunks!," but I will remind you sir that a dunk is the most sucecssful and efficient, therefore the most prized and optimal shot in all of basketball.

James Harden leads the league in 3PM, 3PA (by about 124 more than #2, Steph Curry), and FG missed, which tells us that Harden is getting to that PPG average and way, way, way  more chances than anyone else in the league. He also leads the league in FTM and FTA , although Giannis is #4 and #6  in those fields, respectively. Harden's game is predicated on getting to the line though, and he fishes for drawing fouls. Giannis just happens to get there because he's such a dominant monster in the paint and in transition. That matters to voters.

In other relevant stats, Giannis is fourth in the league in DREB, ninth in total REB, and 15th in blocks. He's also averaging a double-double. Harden is fourth in the league in assists and third in steals. He may be leading the league in total scoring, but he is not averaging a double-double. Harden is first in the league in TO, while Giannis is third. Oh, and I've been saving this bombshell for last: Giannis has the third highest defensive rating in the league at 99.4, and is tied for the lead league in defensive win shares. Harden isn't in the top-20 in either. That's not a big man-only stat either, as there are a few guards in that list, like Russell Westbrook and Victor Oladipo. In total WS, Giannis sits right ahead of Harden at 7.1 to 6.9, which puts them at third and fourth in the league. WS is a stat that considers your overall contribution to your team's victories, so it's saying that overall, Giannis is more important to his team. In WS/48 minutes, Giannis is second, while Harden is sixth. In Offensive Box Plus/Minus, Harden is league leader while Giannis is 11th, but Giannis is league leader in Defensive Box Plus/Minues, while Harden is out of the top-20.

So you can look at PPG and call it a day, but there are people looking at the entire stat line and impact on the game a lot harder and seeing that Giannis is just as important to his team's success as Harden.

As far as team records go, the Bucks have the second best record in the entire league, second only to a team that they have gone 2-1 in head-to-head matchups this season, and who have also played three more games than the Bucks, so that team (Raptors) claims the honor of best record in the league because it has had three more chances to get its percentage higher.

I will also inform you that the Bucks are the only team in the entire league that have not lost more than one game at a time, having suffered no losing streaks period. That includes two trips out West, playing the Raptors thrice, the Celtics twice, and most of the WC. Where Harden puts up his individual stat line is a seperate conversation from where his team is in the conference, which conference is superior, and how that effects standings. Many of those EC teams have bad records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Many of the WC teams have so-so records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Giannis is having a bigger impact on his team's breakaway success than Harden is on his team.

So is either the clear-cut MVP? Probably not, but let's pump our breaks on that kind of talk.

Like I already said he is putting up all those numbers in the vastly inferior East.  As long as the Rockets win their division Harden will easily win the regular season MVP and Luka Doncic will easily win rookie of the year since both play in the superior Western conference.  Also if we are talking about big man I would easily take Anthony Davis and Nikola Jokic over Giannis.



Chris Hu said:
burninmylight said:

We still have exactly half of one season to go, buddy. I highly doubt that PPG average stays that high, especially once Chris Paul returns. Since you're comparing Harden to Kobe's records, how about that 1-17marksmanship from 3 against Orlando last night?

Giannis is on pace to finish the season with the most dunks since prime Shaq in '01-'02, is shooting a higher FG% than Harden (57.9 to 43.4) and has a high eFG% (59.1 to 54), and they are both tied at fourth in the league with the same number of total FGs made through 39 games. However, while Harden leads the league in total FGA by a wide margin (29 highter than #2), Giannis leads the leage in 2-point FG made, while Harden isn't even in the top-20. You're going to say, "But threes are worth more than dunks!," but I will remind you sir that a dunk is the most sucecssful and efficient, therefore the most prized and optimal shot in all of basketball.

James Harden leads the league in 3PM, 3PA (by about 124 more than #2, Steph Curry), and FG missed, which tells us that Harden is getting to that PPG average and way, way, way  more chances than anyone else in the league. He also leads the league in FTM and FTA , although Giannis is #4 and #6  in those fields, respectively. Harden's game is predicated on getting to the line though, and he fishes for drawing fouls. Giannis just happens to get there because he's such a dominant monster in the paint and in transition. That matters to voters.

In other relevant stats, Giannis is fourth in the league in DREB, ninth in total REB, and 15th in blocks. He's also averaging a double-double. Harden is fourth in the league in assists and third in steals. He may be leading the league in total scoring, but he is not averaging a double-double. Harden is first in the league in TO, while Giannis is third. Oh, and I've been saving this bombshell for last: Giannis has the third highest defensive rating in the league at 99.4, and is tied for the lead league in defensive win shares. Harden isn't in the top-20 in either. That's not a big man-only stat either, as there are a few guards in that list, like Russell Westbrook and Victor Oladipo. In total WS, Giannis sits right ahead of Harden at 7.1 to 6.9, which puts them at third and fourth in the league. WS is a stat that considers your overall contribution to your team's victories, so it's saying that overall, Giannis is more important to his team. In WS/48 minutes, Giannis is second, while Harden is sixth. In Offensive Box Plus/Minus, Harden is league leader while Giannis is 11th, but Giannis is league leader in Defensive Box Plus/Minues, while Harden is out of the top-20.

So you can look at PPG and call it a day, but there are people looking at the entire stat line and impact on the game a lot harder and seeing that Giannis is just as important to his team's success as Harden.

As far as team records go, the Bucks have the second best record in the entire league, second only to a team that they have gone 2-1 in head-to-head matchups this season, and who have also played three more games than the Bucks, so that team (Raptors) claims the honor of best record in the league because it has had three more chances to get its percentage higher.

I will also inform you that the Bucks are the only team in the entire league that have not lost more than one game at a time, having suffered no losing streaks period. That includes two trips out West, playing the Raptors thrice, the Celtics twice, and most of the WC. Where Harden puts up his individual stat line is a seperate conversation from where his team is in the conference, which conference is superior, and how that effects standings. Many of those EC teams have bad records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Many of the WC teams have so-so records because the Bucks are one of a handful of teams that won't lose to them. Giannis is having a bigger impact on his team's breakaway success than Harden is on his team.

So is either the clear-cut MVP? Probably not, but let's pump our breaks on that kind of talk.

Like I already said he is putting up all those numbers in the vastly inferior East.  As long as the Rockets win their division Harden will easily win the regular season MVP and Luka Doncic will easily win rookie of the year since both play in the superior Western conference.  Also if we are talking about big man I would easily take Anthony Davis and Nikola Jokic over Giannis.

And I already said East vs. West is a separate conversation, but since you want to cling to that so desperately, we can talk about it. What is the Rockets record? 24-18, putting them sixth in the WC. Fourteen of those wins are against teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today, across both conferences. Their point differential is +1.8.

The Bucks are 30-12, good for second best record in the league, and was at the top of the league for a bit for losing to the Raptors last week (and again, they are 2-1 against the Raptors HTH). They have 15 wins against teams that would be in the playoffs today, and have a point differential of 9.3. The next highest team is Golden State at 5.7. THAT IS A HISTORIC NUMBER. The Bucks are merely winning, they are dominating. They are beating the shit out of teams. And you want to paint as if they are loading up on bad EC teams, but they have wins against the Lakers, Pacers (who are only one game behind the top WC team in the standings and was ahead as recently as a week ago), Sixers, Kings, Warriors IN OAKLAND THREE GAMES INTO A ROAD TRIP, in Denver, Portland, San Antonio, in Boston, Utah, and in Houston. So this team that you want to claim must really suck because the lower half of its conference sucks has loaded up on plenty of wins against quality opponents, many of them in their houses. And did I mention they have an astronomical 9.3 point differential, which many people will tell you is a sign of a quality team? Have I already mentioned that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, THROUGH AN ENTIRE HALF SEASON OF GAMES, THAT HAS YET TO LOSE TWO GAMES IN A ROW? Keep in mind this team has already had two road trips through the mean streets of the WC, the place you claim is so much better than the EC. Why aren't they getting put in their place on the road out there?  Could it be because they are a damn good team, and the conference they play in is a nonfactor in the conversation?

Oh, I may have neglected to mention that they have also beaten the Raptors TWICE, one of them in Toronto.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE RATED IN THE TOP FIVE IN BOTH OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY. Remember how you were touting Harden's ppg? Well the Bucks have the highest team PPG at 117.6, a full 3.0 higher than the next team. At opponent's PPG, they are right at number five with 108.3 PPG. They aren't just squeaking by with wins, they are kicking teams' ass,  be it the Cavs or the Jazz. And at the center of all of this is Giannis. No other player on that team has ever even made an all-star game, although that might change this year. Giannis doesn't just get his buckets. Giannis actively makes his team and his teammates better when he is on the floor  ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Can Harden say that? No, he can't.

Please continue to cherry-pick stats and bring up points that are irrelevant to the MVP conversation. I have way more facts I can give you that point in Giannis' favor. ~_~

And Luka Doncic will win rookie of the year because he's this year's best rookie. Let's pretend like MVPs never come out of the east, like it didn't happen five years in a row from '09-'13. You could make the same argument about the weak East those years, yet the East held it for five years straight.



burninmylight said:
Chris Hu said:

Like I already said he is putting up all those numbers in the vastly inferior East.  As long as the Rockets win their division Harden will easily win the regular season MVP and Luka Doncic will easily win rookie of the year since both play in the superior Western conference.  Also if we are talking about big man I would easily take Anthony Davis and Nikola Jokic over Giannis.

And I already said East vs. West is a separate conversation, but since you want to cling to that so desperately, we can talk about it. What is the Rockets record? 24-18, putting them sixth in the WC. Fourteen of those wins are against teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today, across both conferences. Their point differential is +1.8.

The Bucks are 30-12, good for second best record in the league, and was at the top of the league for a bit for losing to the Raptors last week (and again, they are 2-1 against the Raptors HTH). They have 15 wins against teams that would be in the playoffs today, and have a point differential of 9.3. The next highest team is Golden State at 5.7. THAT IS A HISTORIC NUMBER. The Bucks are merely winning, they are dominating. They are beating the shit out of teams. And you want to paint as if they are loading up on bad EC teams, but they have wins against the Lakers, Pacers (who are only one game behind the top WC team in the standings and was ahead as recently as a week ago), Sixers, Kings, Warriors IN OAKLAND THREE GAMES INTO A ROAD TRIP, in Denver, Portland, San Antonio, in Boston, Utah, and in Houston. So this team that you want to claim must really suck because the lower half of its conference sucks has loaded up on plenty of wins against quality opponents, many of them in their houses. And did I mention they have an astronomical 9.3 point differential, which many people will tell you is a sign of a quality team? Have I already mentioned that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, THROUGH AN ENTIRE HALF SEASON OF GAMES, THAT HAS YET TO LOSE TWO GAMES IN A ROW? Keep in mind this team has already had two road trips through the mean streets of the WC, the place you claim is so much better than the EC. Why aren't they getting put in their place on the road out there?  Could it be because they are a damn good team, and the conference they play in is a nonfactor in the conversation?

Oh, I may have neglected to mention that they have also beaten the Raptors TWICE, one of them in Toronto.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE RATED IN THE TOP FIVE IN BOTH OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY. Remember how you were touting Harden's ppg? Well the Bucks have the highest team PPG at 117.6, a full 3.0 higher than the next team. At opponent's PPG, they are right at number five with 108.3 PPG. They aren't just squeaking by with wins, they are kicking teams' ass,  be it the Cavs or the Jazz. And at the center of all of this is Giannis. No other player on that team has ever even made an all-star game, although that might change this year. Giannis doesn't just get his buckets. Giannis actively makes his team and his teammates better when he is on the floor  ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Can Harden say that? No, he can't.

Please continue to cherry-pick stats and bring up points that are irrelevant to the MVP conversation. I have way more facts I can give you that point in Giannis' favor. ~_~

And Luka Doncic will win rookie of the year because he's this year's best rookie. Let's pretend like MVPs never come out of the east, like it didn't happen five years in a row from '09-'13. You could make the same argument about the weak East those years, yet the East held it for five years straight.

How does Harden not make his teammates better when he pretty much leads the league in triple doubles so far this season.   Put the Bucks in the West and they would barely be better then the Pelicans in other words noticeably worse.  If you would put the Rockets in the east their record would be substantially better.



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As much as I love basketball (it's by far my favourite sport), pretty sure this isn't the the right thread for this.



Man, I really hope that the Chiefs take down the Patriots next weekend. I really, really don't want to see another Patriots Superbowl. Chiefs vs Saints is the Superbowl I want to see.



Chris Hu said:
burninmylight said:

And I already said East vs. West is a separate conversation, but since you want to cling to that so desperately, we can talk about it. What is the Rockets record? 24-18, putting them sixth in the WC. Fourteen of those wins are against teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today, across both conferences. Their point differential is +1.8.

The Bucks are 30-12, good for second best record in the league, and was at the top of the league for a bit for losing to the Raptors last week (and again, they are 2-1 against the Raptors HTH). They have 15 wins against teams that would be in the playoffs today, and have a point differential of 9.3. The next highest team is Golden State at 5.7. THAT IS A HISTORIC NUMBER. The Bucks are merely winning, they are dominating. They are beating the shit out of teams. And you want to paint as if they are loading up on bad EC teams, but they have wins against the Lakers, Pacers (who are only one game behind the top WC team in the standings and was ahead as recently as a week ago), Sixers, Kings, Warriors IN OAKLAND THREE GAMES INTO A ROAD TRIP, in Denver, Portland, San Antonio, in Boston, Utah, and in Houston. So this team that you want to claim must really suck because the lower half of its conference sucks has loaded up on plenty of wins against quality opponents, many of them in their houses. And did I mention they have an astronomical 9.3 point differential, which many people will tell you is a sign of a quality team? Have I already mentioned that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, THROUGH AN ENTIRE HALF SEASON OF GAMES, THAT HAS YET TO LOSE TWO GAMES IN A ROW? Keep in mind this team has already had two road trips through the mean streets of the WC, the place you claim is so much better than the EC. Why aren't they getting put in their place on the road out there?  Could it be because they are a damn good team, and the conference they play in is a nonfactor in the conversation?

Oh, I may have neglected to mention that they have also beaten the Raptors TWICE, one of them in Toronto.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that THEY ARE THE ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE RATED IN THE TOP FIVE IN BOTH OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY. Remember how you were touting Harden's ppg? Well the Bucks have the highest team PPG at 117.6, a full 3.0 higher than the next team. At opponent's PPG, they are right at number five with 108.3 PPG. They aren't just squeaking by with wins, they are kicking teams' ass,  be it the Cavs or the Jazz. And at the center of all of this is Giannis. No other player on that team has ever even made an all-star game, although that might change this year. Giannis doesn't just get his buckets. Giannis actively makes his team and his teammates better when he is on the floor  ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Can Harden say that? No, he can't.

Please continue to cherry-pick stats and bring up points that are irrelevant to the MVP conversation. I have way more facts I can give you that point in Giannis' favor. ~_~

And Luka Doncic will win rookie of the year because he's this year's best rookie. Let's pretend like MVPs never come out of the east, like it didn't happen five years in a row from '09-'13. You could make the same argument about the weak East those years, yet the East held it for five years straight.

How does Harden not make his teammates better when he pretty much leads the league in triple doubles so far this season.   Put the Bucks in the West and they would barely be better then the Pelicans in other words noticeably worse.  If you would put the Rockets in the east their record would be substantially better.

Wow, you are STILL cleaning to conjecture and tired old notions that hold zero water, even though I just proved otherwise. Pretty much everything you are saying is, "West is better than East, West is better than East," even though I just told you that the Bucks have gotten wins against all your WC powers, lead the league in point differential, are the only team in the league that is top-five in both offensive and defensive rating, and the only team in the league that has yet to lose twice in a row, even though they have gone out west twice and played plenty of WC teams at home. At this point, you're just in denial.

And I forgot to mention earlier, where did all the rookies of the year come from over the past decade? Half of them came out of the EC: Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, Michael Carter-Williams, and the latest two ROYs, Malcolm Brogdon and Ben Simmons. So this notion that Luca Doncic will win ROY just because he's in the "vastly superior Western Conference" is a big fat lie that you've either made up or fell for, just like your idea that the MVP will come out of the West for that reason.

And triple-doubles don't mean shit for elevating your teammates. Russell Westbrook broke the single-season record for triple doubles a couple of years ago and averaged a triple double that season; would you say that he elevated his teammates? No, more like his teammates were instructed to elevate him as OKC bent over backwards to his every whim while waiting with clinched butt cheeks for him to sign an extension. What does Harden do that is outstanding on defense? Do this for me - go on YouTube and find me a video that points out how Giannis takes possessions off on defense like this:

"Sit back and watch these plays, just like James Harden did."

Fell outta my chair on that one.

The second one is four years old, but the first one is all from LAST YEAR. Ladies and gentleman, your regular season MVP.

Seriously though, you have every right to disagree with me, but if you have nothing more to add than to regurgitate the same old tired nursery rhyme about the West being better than the East, despite having it proved to you that the top EC teams can hang with the top of the West, then we can agree to disagree and stop wasting our time. I don't expect people to come to my side when I debate, but I do expect them to bring something substantial to the table. I don't feel like I'm getting it from your end any longer, so we can end it here. This is the NFL thread anyway.



TheGoldenBoy said:
As much as I love basketball (it's by far my favourite sport), pretty sure this isn't the the right thread for this.

If you're talking to me, then please quote me.



burninmylight said:
TheGoldenBoy said:
As much as I love basketball (it's by far my favourite sport), pretty sure this isn't the the right thread for this.

If you're talking to me, then please quote me.

Here, I got something on topic. Tom Brady should never be considered for league MVP and is not worthy of the Hall of Fame because he's spent his entire career in the horrible AFC East, with the Bills, Dolphins and Jets. The only reason the Patriots have one 15 of the last 16 divison titles and made the playoffs all those times is because they loaded up on wins against bad teams and got a guaranteed playoff  birth because someone in that crappy division has to go. Same thing with Gronk. All of their records, accolades, playoff success and huge wins against quality opponents don't matter because their neighbors have been trash for the past decade and a half. The only thing that matters are the teams closest to you on the map, not actual standings, records, or success in big games.

Someone in this thread lives by that logic.