Forums - Movies Discussion - Disney fires 'Guardians of the Galaxy' director James Gunn over 'indefensible' old tweets

o_O.Q said:

"Roseanne Barr is a racist. "

she has said explicitly that she's not

This is a joke... right?



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Alara317 said:
shikamaru317 said:

So racist jokes are somehow worse than pedophillic jokes then? What a world we live in. 

Is English not your first language or something? 

mZuzek said making jokes is not grounds for firing but racism is. One is a joke, one is for real. James Gunn is not a pedophile. Roseanne Barr is a racist. WORLD of difference. 

Also, it needs to be addressed, there's a HUGE difference between good offensive humour and bad offensive humour. admittedly both what Roseanne did and what James Gunn did were bad examples of offensive humour, but there's a huge difference between good offensive humour and bad offensive humour. Comedy is not being compromised, political correctness is not ruining the art, people are just more attuned to the difference between what's actually meanspirited vs what's actually funny but offensive. 

Take Jim Jeffries; he does great offensive humour. Some of the stuff he says is vile but it's clearly humour and he makes it clear this is a persona or a joke due to the levels of absurdism and the clever setup and payoff to his jokes. Contrast that with casual mentioning of baking jews in an oven or raping children and you'll see the difference between tact and tactless. 

Honestly, I hate to give the troll RolStoppable credit but that joke he made about how Racism was about hate and Pedophilia is about love? THAT is a good joke...because as twisted as it is, it's technically true. It makes you think, it makes you do a double take (And since inflection isn't available on a message board he made sure to be clear to let people know this was a joke), and therefore it's funny. It's offensive, but it's a well-established and set-up joke. THAT is the difference. 

I'm not even going to bother responding to most of what you said because I hate politics and don't want to get into a drawn out political debate. But I will highlight that statement I bolded because I couldn't disagree more. 

Multiple comedians think that PC culture is killing comedy, shall I go down the list:

Mel Brooks- “We have become stupidly politically correct, which is the death of comedy,” Brooks said. “Comedy has to walk a thin line, take risks.”

Jerry Seinfeld- (speaking about the line of acceptability that comedians attempt not to cross) "They keep moving the lines in for no reason." (asked rather or not PC culture is killing comedy "Yes, yes it is"

John Cleese- "It's so awful isn't it?' he said. 'It starts out as a halfway decent idea (political correctness), and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. You can make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves? It's very very condescending there."

Gilbert Gottfried- "“Imagine if the most brilliant comedians in history were working today. They’d never stop apologizing. Charlie Chaplin would have to apologize to all the homeless people he belittled with his Little Tramp character,” Gottfried wrote.

Dennis Miller- “The main problem with the present day inquisition squad is that many of our ‘open-minded’ watch guards are among our most close-minded citizens,” Miller wrote.

Larry the Cable Guy- " “It's gotten way outta control, you know. I really think that we're at a point in this country where people really need to take the thumb outta their mouth and grow up a little bit and realize there's a lot bigger problems out there than what a comedian did a joke about"

Chris Rock- (saying that he stopped doing acts on college campuses because the students were too conservative) “Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody." He also discussed how the prevalence of social media forces comedians into self-censorship. As he put it: “It is scary, because the thing about comedians is that you’re the only ones who practice in front of a crowd. Prince doesn’t run a demo on the radio. But in stand-up, the demo gets out. There are a few guys good enough to write a perfect act and get onstage, but everybody else workshops it and workshops it, and it can get real messy. It can get downright offensive. Before everyone had a recording device and was wired like fucking Sammy the Bull, you’d say something that went too far, and you’d go, “Oh, I went too far,” and you would just brush it off. But if you think you don’t have room to make mistakes, it’s going to lead to safer, gooier stand-up. You can’t think the thoughts you want to think if you think you’re being watched.”

Howie Mandel- “It’s not fun anymore,” Mandel said with a shake of his head. “Comedy was fun. When I came out here, I couldn’t wait to hit the stage and try my wares, and step over the line and find out where the line is. Not anymore. Not fun!”

Lisa Lampanelli- "To say that I’m a bit of an edgy comedian is like saying the Colorado theatre bomber is a bit of an eccentric. I’ve made a career out of pushing boundaries onstage, and I’ve never been a stranger to controversy. In fact, I’ve been picketed by more groups than a gay Muslim abortion doctor. And you know something? I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m a take-no-prisoners type of comic, and I’m lucky because my fans get me and never have a problem with the politically incorrect themes of my act. But I am continually amazed by how a certain section of our society seems to be so freakin’ sensitive about jokes.“Completely inappropriate!” “Too soon!” “That’s disgusting!” No, these aren’t just things I heard on my wedding night -- these are some of the comments that spring from the PC police’s lips when they hear a joke they deem “politically incorrect.”

Jim Norton- “(Western culture) has become a tireless brigade of social-justice warriors. Being outraged and upset and feeling bullied or offended are not only things we enjoy, they’re also things we have become thoroughly addicted to. When we can’t purposefully get our feelings hurt by a comedian, we usually find another, albeit less satisfying, source of indignation… I choose to believe that we are addicted to the rush of being offended, the idea of it, rather than believing we have become a nation of emasculated children whose only defense against an abyss of emotional agony is a trigger warning.”

George Carlin- "Political correctness is just fascism disguised as manners" and "“Political correctness is America’s newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people’s language with strict codes and rigid rules. I’m not sure that’s the way to fight discrimination. I’m not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”

Rob Schneider- "Comics are the ones who are supposed to say the horrible things we all think but don't."

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 15 March 2019

o_O.Q said:
Alara317 said:

Selective memory much? 

They fired Roseanne after a lifetime of repeated terrible racist behaviour, not 'one single racist joke'. Her entire persona revolved around that shit and the 'single joke' was less that and more 'one joke too far'. Furthermore, Gunn's tweets from half a decade ago (Actually more but the exact date is irrelevant) are in the past while her behaviour is ongoing. 

Another example of people trying to equate such disparate situations in order to devalue one or the other. 

"They fired Roseanne after a lifetime of repeated terrible racist behaviour"

examples?

 

"Roseanne Barr is a racist. "

she has said explicitly that she's not

 

"Some of the stuff he says is vile but it's clearly humour and he makes it clear this is a persona or a joke due to the levels of absurdism and the clever setup and payoff to his jokes."

so you sincerely don't think that this was a joke?

I hate to ad-hominem you but your icon is of Alex Jones flexing; that invalidates everything you say by default. 

should I go find the corner preacher dude saying that the lizard people are making the frogs gay to turn our children into reverse pedophiles due to Hillary's deep state area 51 conspiracy nutjob and take a picture of him to use as my avatar? No, because that would be stupid. Alex jones is the worst and you really should be ashamed of yourself for associating yourself with him by using him as an avatar. 



shikamaru317 said:
Alara317 said:

Is English not your first language or something? 

mZuzek said making jokes is not grounds for firing but racism is. One is a joke, one is for real. James Gunn is not a pedophile. Roseanne Barr is a racist. WORLD of difference. 

Also, it needs to be addressed, there's a HUGE difference between good offensive humour and bad offensive humour. admittedly both what Roseanne did and what James Gunn did were bad examples of offensive humour, but there's a huge difference between good offensive humour and bad offensive humour. Comedy is not being compromised, political correctness is not ruining the art, people are just more attuned to the difference between what's actually meanspirited vs what's actually funny but offensive. 

Take Jim Jeffries; he does great offensive humour. Some of the stuff he says is vile but it's clearly humour and he makes it clear this is a persona or a joke due to the levels of absurdism and the clever setup and payoff to his jokes. Contrast that with casual mentioning of baking jews in an oven or raping children and you'll see the difference between tact and tactless. 

Honestly, I hate to give the troll RolStoppable credit but that joke he made about how Racism was about hate and Pedophilia is about love? THAT is a good joke...because as twisted as it is, it's technically true. It makes you think, it makes you do a double take (And since inflection isn't available on a message board he made sure to be clear to let people know this was a joke), and therefore it's funny. It's offensive, but it's a well-established and set-up joke. THAT is the difference. 

I'm not even going to bother responding to most of what you said because I hate politics and don't want to get into a drawn out political debate. But I will highlight that statement I bolded because I couldn't disagree more. 

Multiple comedians thank this modern PC culture is killing comedy, shall I go down the list:

Mel Brooks- “We have become stupidly politically correct, which is the death of comedy,” Brooks said. “Comedy has to walk a thin line, take risks.”

Jerry Seinfeld- (speaking about the line of acceptability that comedians attempt not to cross) "They keep moving the lines in for no reason." (asked rather or not PC culture is killing comedy "Yes, yes it is"

John Cleese- "It's so awful isn't it?' he said. 'It starts out as a halfway decent idea (political correctness), and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. You can make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves? It's very very condescending there."

Gilbert Gottfried- "“Imagine if the most brilliant comedians in history were working today. They’d never stop apologizing. Charlie Chaplin would have to apologize to all the homeless people he belittled with his Little Tramp character,” Gottfried wrote.

Dennis Miller- “The main problem with the present day inquisition squad is that many of our ‘open-minded’ watch guards are among our most close-minded citizens,” Miller wrote.

Larry the Cable Guy- " “It's gotten way outta control, you know. I really think that we're at a point in this country where people really need to take the thumb outta their mouth and grow up a little bit and realize there's a lot bigger problems out there than what a comedian did a joke about"

Chris Rock- (saying that he stopped doing acts on college campuses because the students were too conservative) “Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody." He also discussed how the prevalence of social media forces comedians into self-censorship. As he put it: “It is scary, because the thing about comedians is that you’re the only ones who practice in front of a crowd. Prince doesn’t run a demo on the radio. But in stand-up, the demo gets out. There are a few guys good enough to write a perfect act and get onstage, but everybody else workshops it and workshops it, and it can get real messy. It can get downright offensive. Before everyone had a recording device and was wired like fucking Sammy the Bull, you’d say something that went too far, and you’d go, “Oh, I went too far,” and you would just brush it off. But if you think you don’t have room to make mistakes, it’s going to lead to safer, gooier stand-up. You can’t think the thoughts you want to think if you think you’re being watched.”

Howie Mandel- “It’s not fun anymore,” Mandel said with a shake of his head. “Comedy was fun. When I came out here, I couldn’t wait to hit the stage and try my wares, and step over the line and find out where the line is. Not anymore. Not fun!”

Lisa Lampanelli- "To say that I’m a bit of an edgy comedian is like saying the Colorado theatre bomber is a bit of an eccentric. I’ve made a career out of pushing boundaries onstage, and I’ve never been a stranger to controversy. In fact, I’ve been picketed by more groups than a gay Muslim abortion doctor. And you know something? I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m a take-no-prisoners type of comic, and I’m lucky because my fans get me and never have a problem with the politically incorrect themes of my act. But I am continually amazed by how a certain section of our society seems to be so freakin’ sensitive about jokes.“Completely inappropriate!” “Too soon!” “That’s disgusting!” No, these aren’t just things I heard on my wedding night -- these are some of the comments that spring from the PC police’s lips when they hear a joke they deem “politically incorrect.”

Jim Norton- “(Western culture) has become a tireless brigade of social-justice warriors. Being outraged and upset and feeling bullied or offended are not only things we enjoy, they’re also things we have become thoroughly addicted to. When we can’t purposefully get our feelings hurt by a comedian, we usually find another, albeit less satisfying, source of indignation… I choose to believe that we are addicted to the rush of being offended, the idea of it, rather than believing we have become a nation of emasculated children whose only defense against an abyss of emotional agony is a trigger warning.”

George Carlin- "Political correctness is just fascism disguised as manners" and "“Political correctness is America’s newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people’s language with strict codes and rigid rules. I’m not sure that’s the way to fight discrimination. I’m not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”

Rob Schneider- "Comics are the ones who are supposed to say the horrible things we all think but don't."

You...don't understand comedy, clearly. All of those comics were immensely successful and many of their bits revolved around the idea of how 'political correctness' and 'soft language and euphemisms' were ruining the world...yet despite all that bitching, all that complaining, and all that bemoaning they still got away with and prospered by being offensive. George Carlin is my favorite comic of all time bar none and if you couldn't read between the lines and understand what was comedy, what was commentary, and how those things intersected and where they didn't overlap, that's on you. 



mZuzek said:
o_O.Q said:

"Roseanne Barr is a racist. "

she has said explicitly that she's not

This is a joke... right?

sadly I don't think so. He just collected a dozen quotes from various comedians decrying political correctness that didn't even remotely prove his point (or at least prove me wrong; I'm not entirely sure what his point was, to be honest.) 



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shikamaru317 said:
melbye said:
Sorry for dragging up an old topic, but i didn't think it warranted a new thread
https://deadline.com/2019/03/james-gunn-reinstated-guardians-of-the-galaxy-3-disney-suicide-squad-2-indefensible-social-media-messages-1202576444/

Again we see as long as someone is one the "correct" side of the political spectrum everything will eventually be forgiven

Ugh, Disney double standard. They fired Roseanne over a single racist joke, then killed her character off the show so that she could never return. James Gunn makes tons of pedophillic jokes over the course of 5 years, and they hire him back just because they can't find anybody else to direct the movie. 

Gunn tried to be funny (it wasn't funny anyway) on Twitter a decade ago.  This was Roseanne recently:

If you want to boil it down to optics, Gunn is behind the scenes, Rosanne IS the scene. I'm not saying that's a valid reason for why it has played out as it has but one is easier to 'hide' than the other AND a movie doesn't need ongoing ad money from outside advertisers while a TV show with her as the star does.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Alara317 said:
o_O.Q said:

"They fired Roseanne after a lifetime of repeated terrible racist behaviour"

examples?

 

"Roseanne Barr is a racist. "

she has said explicitly that she's not

 

"Some of the stuff he says is vile but it's clearly humour and he makes it clear this is a persona or a joke due to the levels of absurdism and the clever setup and payoff to his jokes."

so you sincerely don't think that this was a joke?

I hate to ad-hominem you but your icon is of Alex Jones flexing; that invalidates everything you say by default. 

should I go find the corner preacher dude saying that the lizard people are making the frogs gay to turn our children into reverse pedophiles due to Hillary's deep state area 51 conspiracy nutjob and take a picture of him to use as my avatar? No, because that would be stupid. Alex jones is the worst and you really should be ashamed of yourself for associating yourself with him by using him as an avatar. 

before i address your post i'd just like to comment on the fact that you haven't addressed anything i posted

i asked you about whether barr was joking in that tweet or not... i mean it seems fairly obvious to me that it was a joke, she stated afterwards that it was a joke... so all you really have to go on is your subjective opinion and if that is the case why excuse gunn who in my opinion has made comments that are absolutely reprehensible about children and rape?

 

"No, because that would be stupid. "

how so?

 

"Alex jones is the worst"

i've seen many worser than him

 

"you really should be ashamed of yourself for associating yourself with him by using him as an avatar. "

why?

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 16 March 2019

mZuzek said:
o_O.Q said:

"Roseanne Barr is a racist. "

she has said explicitly that she's not

This is a joke... right?

its not and to clarify why, we first have to determine whether she explicitly intended for it to be racist... her denial of that shows that this was not the case

well at that point you could argue that she is hiding her intent and lying and that in your subjective opinion she's a racist even though she claims not to be one

well if that's the case why can't we conclude that gunn wants to fuck kids and thinks rape is ok? its the same exact situation and there's denial from both parties, why are you ready to jump to conclusions about one and not the other? because you like one and not the other?



SpokenTruth said:
shikamaru317 said:

Ugh, Disney double standard. They fired Roseanne over a single racist joke, then killed her character off the show so that she could never return. James Gunn makes tons of pedophillic jokes over the course of 5 years, and they hire him back just because they can't find anybody else to direct the movie. 

Gunn tried to be funny (it wasn't funny anyway) on Twitter a decade ago.  This was Roseanne recently:

 

 

 

If you want to boil it down to optics, Gunn is behind the scenes, Rosanne IS the scene. I'm not saying that's a valid reason for why it has played out as it has but one is easier to 'hide' than the other AND a movie doesn't need ongoing ad money from outside advertisers while a TV show with her as the star does.

explain the racism for me? 

am i supposed to understand "racism" to now mean any person who insults another person on their appearance?

she was mean and called another woman a bitch... so fucking what? am i supposed to believe that you are nice to everyone you have ever interacted with?

 

"Gunn tried to be funny"

that was his claim... that was barr's claim too but you are willing to give one the benefit of the doubt and not the other

you think gunn has never called a woman a bitch? or been mean to people?



So it was all a cover-up to keep the Twitter trolls quiet while they bought Fox? Nice. I like Disney more now.