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Forums - Sony Discussion - The Last of Us 2 Gameplay and Death Stranding Trailer

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
CGI-Quality said:

Kojima is pretentious? Tell me how. The David Lynch reference does nothing for me.

...This doesn't even need an explanation. If you can't see it you just can't. 

My point is that I definitely think this marketing scheme is annoying .. but not because the game is bad or because Kojima is bad. It will probably be a great game. It's just because the smoke and mirrors is annoying, we get it already, move on to the content. 

If it isn't something you can explain, I don't see why you'd say it at all then. I could work with, "well, he acts like he's something or someone he isn't". But you just give me, "well, if you can't see it, you just can't see it".... Okay. :p

In all seriousness, my interpretation of what he's doing is that he wants people to look deeper into it than what was displayed on a screen. That works for me, because I'm a storyteller/writer. Deeper meanings are right up my alley. Plus, this is Kojima. It's what he does. Some like it, others don't. And that's okay. But, it's his style, and if he wasn't successful at it, he'd hardly have as big a following as he does.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 15 June 2018

                                                                                                                                                           

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CGI-Quality said:

If it isn't something you can explain, I don't see why you'd say it at all then. I could work with, "well, he acts like he's something or someone he isn't". But you just give me, "well, if you can't see it, you just can't see it".... Okay. :p

In all seriousness, my interpretation of what he's doing is that he wants people to look deeper into it than what was displayed on a screen. That works for me, because I'm a storyteller/writer. Deeper meanings are right up my alley. Plus, this is Kojima. It's what he does. Some like it, others don't. And that's okay. But, it's his style, and if he wasn't successful at it, he'd hardly have as big a following as he does.

The dude has made three or four trailers now that are just as cryptic as each other and instead of selling a game at this point he's just trying to sell a narrative of a game being really weird. Kojima games have always been weird, but it's getting to the point where it's annoying. Not because of how the game is being depicted or because it's out of my ballpark, it's because as a marketing gimmick it has run it's course. Sure it has started a lot of discussion, but this trailer in particular has seen more backlash than the others because of this repetition. It's just getting tiring at this point. For me in particular it's mostly because I know he wants it to be weird, to be something "deep", or maybe to be some meta-narrative (I'm betting on the latter, although the trailer will obviously look more deep in the context of the full game, that is usually the case). So because I know what he's going for, it doesn't really affect me anymore. It's just there at this point. 

Anyways I think Kojima got most of his following from his games. Metal Gear was very weird but it was at least something tangible. This game isn't something tangible thus far, which is why I find it a bit frustrating that we're just sweeping this under the rug as "Kojima being Kojima". Honestly if Kojima did stuff like this from the beginning of his career I'm not sure he would have the following he has now, it's a bit disingenuous to act like Metal Gear had this level of complacency in it's advertising stage. 

I still think the game will be great, but that's exactly why this is so frustrating. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:

CGI-Quality said:

If it isn't something you can explain, I don't see why you'd say it at all then. I could work with, "well, he acts like he's something or someone he isn't". But you just give me, "well, if you can't see it, you just can't see it".... Okay. :p

In all seriousness, my interpretation of what he's doing is that he wants people to look deeper into it than what was displayed on a screen. That works for me, because I'm a storyteller/writer. Deeper meanings are right up my alley. Plus, this is Kojima. It's what he does. Some like it, others don't. And that's okay. But, it's his style, and if he wasn't successful at it, he'd hardly have as big a following as he does.

The dude has made three or four trailers now that are just as cryptic as each other and instead of selling a game at this point he's just trying to sell a narrative of a game being really weird. Kojima games have always been weird, but it's getting to the point where it's annoying. Not because of how the game is being depicted or because it's out of my ballpark, it's because as a marketing gimmick it has run it's course. Sure it has started a lot of discussion, but this trailer in particular has seen more backlash than the others because of this repetition. It's just getting tiring at this point. For me in particular it's mostly because I know he wants it to be weird, to be something "deep", or maybe to be some meta-narrative (I'm betting on the latter, although the trailer will obviously look more deep in the context of the full game, that is usually the case). So because I know what he's going for, it doesn't really affect me anymore. It's just there at this point. 

Anyways I think Kojima got most of his following from his games. Metal Gear was very weird but it was at least something tangible. This game isn't something tangible thus far, which is why I find it a bit frustrating that we're just sweeping this under the rug as "Kojima being Kojima". Honestly if Kojima did stuff like this from the beginning of his career I'm not sure he would have the following he has now, it's a bit disingenuous to act like Metal Gear had this level of complacency in it's advertising stage. 

I still think the game will be great, but that's exactly why this is so frustrating. 

No, Metal Gear didn't have this level of complacency, because he wasn't established yet. And now we've returned to my original point - he can't be pretentious if this is what he's known for. Thus far, it has worked throughout his career. I'm willing to lay the current level of how cryptic this is on being new. Other than that, nothing he's done in regards to this game is out of left field. I get that you're frustrated, just as I am content, but it is what it is. He got similar backlash with MGS3. 

In any event, he'll reveal more obviously, but my guess is this game will be another feather he can add to his cap.



                                                                                                                                                           

CGI-Quality said:

No, Metal Gear didn't have this level of complacency, because he wasn't established yet. And now we've returned to my original point - he can't be pretentious if this is what he's known for. Thus far, it has worked throughout his career. I'm willing to lay the current level of how cryptic this is on being new. Other than that, nothing he's done in regards to this game is out of left field. I get that you're frustrated, just as I am content, but it is what it is. He got similar backlash with MGS3. 

In any event, he'll reveal more obviously, but my guess is this game will be another feather he can add to his cap.

Uhh ... what? First of all, that isn't your original point. You never made one, you just expected me to explain everything . Second of all, no, that isn't true. Anything can be classified as pretentious, provided there is legitimate reasoning to back up that classification. Saying that someone is known for doing something is certainly a good counter-point, but it isn't the end all be all of discussion. It doesn't instantly stop something from being pretentious, in fact, it's often the biggest proponents of certain ideals that end up getting stuck in them to the point of pretentiousness.  There is such a thing as mindless self-indulgence. 

As much as Kojima is known for adding weird, experimental parts of his games, you know what else he is known for? Action, bombast, titillating female characters, spy intrigue, etc. I could go on and on, but again the point isn't that i'm expecting any of that (it would be really boring if he just made the same game over and over) - the point is that your "he's known for this so it's okay" doesn't really hold up. He isn't just known for this, he has many equalizers that have made his previous products successful. 

Of course, it will probably be great. Doesn't really change the discussion though. 





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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
CGI-Quality said:

No, Metal Gear didn't have this level of complacency, because he wasn't established yet. And now we've returned to my original point - he can't be pretentious if this is what he's known for. Thus far, it has worked throughout his career. I'm willing to lay the current level of how cryptic this is on being new. Other than that, nothing he's done in regards to this game is out of left field. I get that you're frustrated, just as I am content, but it is what it is. He got similar backlash with MGS3. 

In any event, he'll reveal more obviously, but my guess is this game will be another feather he can add to his cap.

Uhh ... what? First of all, that isn't your original point. You never made one, you just expected me to explain everything . Second of all, no, that isn't true. Anything can be classified as pretentious, provided there is legitimate reasoning to back up that classification. Saying that someone is known for doing something is certainly a good counter-point, but it isn't the end all be all of discussion. It doesn't instantly stop something from being pretentious, in fact, it's often the biggest proponents of certain ideals that end up getting stuck in them to the point of pretentiousness.  There is such a thing as mindless self-indulgence. 

As much as Kojima is known for adding weird, experimental parts of his games, you know what else he is known for? Action, bombast, titillating female characters, spy intrigue, etc. I could go on and on, but again the point isn't that i'm expecting any of that (it would be really boring if he just made the same game over and over) - the point is that your "he's known for this so it's okay" doesn't really hold up. He isn't just known for this, he has many equalizers that have made his previous products successful. 

Of course, it will probably be great. Doesn't really change the discussion though. 

That was my original point (I believe I'd know what I meant :p). You called him pretentious. I wanted to know how - and you refused to explain after two replies. I finally got something on the third.

To me, when you say someone is acting like something they aren't (which is what pretentious means), I try to look for the "how" in it. Has he been cryptic? Absolutely. I get the frustration there.



                                                                                                                                                           

CGI-Quality said:

That was my original point (I believe I'd know what I meant :p). You called him pretentious. I wanted to know how - and you refused to explain after two replies. I finally got something on the third.

To me, when you say someone is acting like something they aren't (which is what pretentious means), I try to look for the "how" in it. 

Yeah, took a while, didn't it!

...Hm... I'm sure that is what pretentious means ... but I mean more so this definition : "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed"

I guess you could argue that, that is a form of "acting like something you aren't", since you're acting of greater importance than you are, but that really isn't the same thing in a literal definition. In any case, now you know which definition I'm using. 

 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
CGI-Quality said:

That was my original point (I believe I'd know what I meant :p). You called him pretentious. I wanted to know how - and you refused to explain after two replies. I finally got something on the third.

To me, when you say someone is acting like something they aren't (which is what pretentious means), I try to look for the "how" in it. 

Yeah, took a while, didn't it!

...Hm... I'm sure that is what pretentious means ... but I mean more so this definition : "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed"

I guess you could argue that, that is a form of "acting like something you aren't", since you're acting of greater importance than you are, but that really isn't the same thing in a literal definition. In any case, now you know which definition I'm using. 

 

Yeah, you're saying he's acting like he's greater than what he is (or acting in one way, while having a documented history of being something other than what he's shown in regards to Death Stranding). So, what would have made the trailer better for you?



                                                                                                                                                           

Heavenly_King said:
since Ellie is the only playable character I dont give a damn about TLOU2. I really dont know what the fu(k naughty dog is thinking.

Joel was in the previous trailer wasn't he?



CGI-Quality said:

Yeah, you're saying he's acting like he's greater than what he is (or acting in one way, while having a documented history of being something other than what he's shown in regards to Death Stranding). So, what would have made the trailer better for you?

No, not even that. In media, when the word pretentious is used, it's almost always a way of saying that the creators of the media are trying to give off a greater importance of said media than there really is. In this instance, we're just talking about a trailer. Personally, I don't care how great Kojima considers himself to be : P . Especially because he's earned his reputation as a media genius. 

I think something a bit more coherent would have been great. Yes it's fun to speculate and fan theories are one of the best things about anticipating Kojima games, but it would be nice to at least know *some* of what's going on. A little bit of clarification might have been added but very little at all. I would have liked to see more genuine gameplay. I'm sure walking will be very much part of the gaming experience(lol), but I have a feeling there is a lot of depth that hasn't even been teased. 

Keep in mind none of this would be a problem if this wasn't the 3rd or 4th time...