Forums - PC Discussion - Microsoft teases a ‘classic Halo’ PC experience after killing fan mod

Azzanation said:

Of course they are competing, however Steam isn't a horrible factor for MS. MS also make money off Steam and Steam also promotes Windows devices.

Microsoft only makes cash from Steam if they are the owners/publishers of a title or gain royalties from any technology being used.
Otherwise they get nothing.

And like you pointed out before, Microsoft is moving away from Steam anyway. ;)

And whether it promotes Windows Devices or not is inconsequential, it's still not a 30% cut on all sold software.

Azzanation said:

If MS saw Steam as a threat to there business model they wouldn't be releasing some of there games on it.

Microsoft hasn't released a game on Steam since September last year.
Games like Cuphead made it to Steam because Microsoft was not the developer or publisher for the title... And thus Microsoft got absolutely nothing from it.


Azzanation said:

However MS aren't against Steam as much as others want to believe, Apple and other OS's like Linux are the threats to MS. If MS saw Steam as a threat to there business model they wouldn't be releasing some of there games on it. I mean what do we take them for?

Well, you recognized that Microsoft is a competitor to Steam and vice versa.
You also recognized that Microsoft isn't going to release all it's titles on Steam.

I think that kind of says it all, regardless of either of our opinions or sentiment.

Azzanation said:

The reason Valve created the Steam Machine was due to panic of MS invading the PC digital side of games. Steam's counter against that was to compete with MS's Xbox however unfortunately for Valve it didn't turn out that well.

Valve tries all sorts of things. I think everyone and their pet cat knew that Steam Machines weren't going to set the world on fire.
Why? Because they were essentially just entering into the OEM PC market.

Azzanation said:

Valve also don't like to use DX and they tend to be pushing OpenGL which is why Windows 10 Store exists, so it creates competition for MS's own API. For some reason MS want to heavily support DX, I don't know why but they hold that API close to there heart. Win10 is to support DX for PC and Xbox is to support DX for consoles.

Valve uses and supports Direct X when it makes sense.
You can support both Direct X and OpenGL at the same time you know, like Half Life 2... Either way, developers have been leveraging and using both Direct X and OpenGL for decades, nothing has or will change on that front... Thus your claim that Microsoft took a reactionary measure with Windows Store is laughable.

In saying that, not all developers will be using Direct X even on the Xbox One, the Xbox One does have more than 1 API you know, there are low-level API's designed to extract as much capability from the hardware as possible.

Azzanation said:

In saying all that, I see Xbox reducing there support for Steam but not entirely.

 I concur. Microsoft has never truly given a shit about PC gaming, but the writing on the wall has been there for a long time now.

Azzanation said:

They will compete with Steam but they wont destroy Steam. If anything I see low selling MS titles still arriving on Steam while there big hitters remain a selling point for Win10 and Xbox.

Well. PC gamers tend to love and adore Steam, you don't hear the same kind of sentiment about the Windows Store or Xbox.
Can that change? Possibly, but Microsoft needs to do allot of work, because Games for Windows Live! is still fresh in allot of gamers minds.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Chazore said:
Azzanation said:

 

In saying all that, I see Xbox reducing there support for Steam but not entirely. They will compete with Steam but they wont destroy Steam. If anything I see low selling MS titles still arriving on Steam while there big hitters remain a selling point for Win10 and Xbox.

Only the future will tell.

Well for one, they aren't doing an impressive job of competing against Steam, in the same way of taking what makes Steam, Steam and making it in their own image.

 

They also have no chance of "destroying" steam. Not in a million lifetimes can they hope to do so. Though that doesn't stop MS from employing it's typical EEE strategy here and there (which is designed to destroy and absorb it's competition). 

 You answered my post with your own reply.

Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

Of course they are competing, however Steam isn't a horrible factor for MS. MS also make money off Steam and Steam also promotes Windows devices.

Microsoft only makes cash from Steam if they are the owners/publishers of a title or gain royalties from any technology being used.
Otherwise they get nothing.

And like you pointed out before, Microsoft is moving away from Steam anyway. ;)

And whether it promotes Windows Devices or not is inconsequential, it's still not a 30% cut on all sold software.

Azzanation said:

If MS saw Steam as a threat to there business model they wouldn't be releasing some of there games on it.

Microsoft hasn't released a game on Steam since September last year.
Games like Cuphead made it to Steam because Microsoft was not the developer or publisher for the title... And thus Microsoft got absolutely nothing from it.


Azzanation said:

However MS aren't against Steam as much as others want to believe, Apple and other OS's like Linux are the threats to MS. If MS saw Steam as a threat to there business model they wouldn't be releasing some of there games on it. I mean what do we take them for?

Well, you recognized that Microsoft is a competitor to Steam and vice versa.
You also recognized that Microsoft isn't going to release all it's titles on Steam.

I think that kind of says it all, regardless of either of our opinions or sentiment.

Azzanation said:

The reason Valve created the Steam Machine was due to panic of MS invading the PC digital side of games. Steam's counter against that was to compete with MS's Xbox however unfortunately for Valve it didn't turn out that well.

Valve tries all sorts of things. I think everyone and their pet cat knew that Steam Machines weren't going to set the world on fire.
Why? Because they were essentially just entering into the OEM PC market.

Azzanation said:

Valve also don't like to use DX and they tend to be pushing OpenGL which is why Windows 10 Store exists, so it creates competition for MS's own API. For some reason MS want to heavily support DX, I don't know why but they hold that API close to there heart. Win10 is to support DX for PC and Xbox is to support DX for consoles.

Valve uses and supports Direct X when it makes sense.
You can support both Direct X and OpenGL at the same time you know, like Half Life 2... Either way, developers have been leveraging and using both Direct X and OpenGL for decades, nothing has or will change on that front... Thus your claim that Microsoft took a reactionary measure with Windows Store is laughable.

In saying that, not all developers will be using Direct X even on the Xbox One, the Xbox One does have more than 1 API you know, there are low-level API's designed to extract as much capability from the hardware as possible.

Azzanation said:

In saying all that, I see Xbox reducing there support for Steam but not entirely.

 I concur. Microsoft has never truly given a shit about PC gaming, but the writing on the wall has been there for a long time now.

Azzanation said:

They will compete with Steam but they wont destroy Steam. If anything I see low selling MS titles still arriving on Steam while there big hitters remain a selling point for Win10 and Xbox.

Well. PC gamers tend to love and adore Steam, you don't hear the same kind of sentiment about the Windows Store or Xbox.
Can that change? Possibly, but Microsoft needs to do allot of work, because Games for Windows Live! is still fresh in allot of gamers minds.


Valve will argue your point. If the article below doesn't sound like there trying to move away from DX

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/09/valve-with-the-rise-of-vulkan-why-bother-with-directx-12/ 

Valve's Dan Ginsburg said: 

"Unless you are aggressive enough to be shipping a DX12 game this year, I would argue that there is really not much reason to ever create a DX12 back end for your game. And the reason for that is that Vulkan will cover you on Windows 10 on the same class of hardware and so much more from all these other platforms and IHVs that we've heard from. Metal is single platform, single vendor, and Vulkan... we are gonna have support for not only Windows 10 but Windows 7, Windows 8 and Linux."

^This post above is something that would have gotten MS's attention which we all know is a sensitive subject to MS. If MS are willing to create an entire Xbox brand to help promote DX than this is another reason why MS will go all out and have there own platform on PC to do the exact same thing Xbox is doing for consoles.

https://www.cio.com.au/article/593936/gaming-linux-steam-machines-set-soar-directx-competitor-vulkan/

Also just to point out I found this, not sure if its true since I don't own a Steam Machine

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/864980277651340133/?l=portuguese

I think I found enough evidence that proves my point with Valve and there tactics against MS's DX.

Its all an opinion on Valves move to the console market, however its just fitting that they decided to do this when MS was focusing on bringing Xbox games to Windows Store.. and how Valve are heavily supporting MS's competitor Vulkan API and Linux OS for some strangely odd reasons.. Almost sounds like this - Valve "You want to take my market than ill take yours and will do it using your competitors APIs and OS" approach.

Your point about MS not making money on Steam with games like Cuphead is true, however funny you just picked out Cuphead, what about games like Ori and the Blind Forest, Killer Instinct, Quantum Break, Fable 1 and 2, AoE2, Halo Wars, Halo Spartan Assault and Strike just to name some? They are all published by MS which means there are incentives there which means MS makes money off Steam and Steam is supporting MS's games. Of course you can cherry pick games that aren't published by them but majority of MS titles are published on Steam which again earns MS money.

Everything is in competition with each other, they all want to make the most money, that we can all agree on however MS's rivalry with Steam might be there for the fanbase however its not in the leagues of MS's rivalry with other platforms like Apple. Steam is a service which again brings MS money on more fronts than just the game sales which I mentioned above. It also promotes windows devices.

Also remember I am not here praising how good Win10 store is, however give it time and it will only improve much like how Steam was a disaster at launch and took many years before it become anything of quality. How would it settle for Valve when MS starts nailing down the issues with Win10 store and it becomes a quality app with a bunch of not only Steam games but big first party hitters that will drive people to the eco system something Valve cannot compete with unless they start buying out more studios like the Fire Watch team and start making there own games.

Long post, again I am on my phone so its hard to edit.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 29 April 2018

Azzanation said:

Valve will argue your point. If the article below doesn't sound like there trying to move away from DX

Actions speak louder than words. Pretty much every Valve game supports Direct X.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Azzanation said:
Chazore said:

Well for one, they aren't doing an impressive job of competing against Steam, in the same way of taking what makes Steam, Steam and making it in their own image.

 

They also have no chance of "destroying" steam. Not in a million lifetimes can they hope to do so. Though that doesn't stop MS from employing it's typical EEE strategy here and there (which is designed to destroy and absorb it's competition). 

 You answered my post with your own reply.

Actually I merely replied to your post. I wasn't answering some hypothetical question either. 



                                       

Chazore said:
Azzanation said:

 You answered my post with your own reply.

Actually I merely replied to your post. I wasn't answering some hypothetical question either. 

Well you did. You clearly stated MS has no chance of destroying Steam which than you anwsered with MS can buy out and absorb (highly unlikely) which will destroy Steam as a competitor. Anything is possible. 

They dont have to be better to win. Much like the most successful car companies don't make the best cars. Money talks. 

If i misread your post please explain what you meant by EEE strategy and your point of not capable of destroying Steam?



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Azzanation said:

Well you did. You clearly stated MS has no chance of destroying Steam which than you anwsered with MS can buy out and absorb (highly unlikely) which will destroy Steam as a competitor. Anything is possible. 

They dont have to be better to win. Much like the most successful car companies don't make the best cars. Money talks. 

If i misread your post please explain what you meant by EEE strategy and your point of not capable of destroying Steam?

I said MS could actually "buy out and absorb" Steam?.

 

It's like you want to hear said words, but I mentioned their EEE strategy. I didn't say they would use and be absolutely successful in using it against Steam. I merely mentioned that nothing has stopped from them holding onto said strategy. 

Actually they do. Being lesser than Steam doesn't win you the golden medal, nor does it serve to take away a massive chunk of it's userbase. No one else has bothered to take on Steam, in such a way that it would deliver a massive blow to their userbase and eco. 



                                       

Chazore said:
Azzanation said:

Well you did. You clearly stated MS has no chance of destroying Steam which than you anwsered with MS can buy out and absorb (highly unlikely) which will destroy Steam as a competitor. Anything is possible. 

They dont have to be better to win. Much like the most successful car companies don't make the best cars. Money talks. 

If i misread your post please explain what you meant by EEE strategy and your point of not capable of destroying Steam?

I said MS could actually "buy out and absorb" Steam?.

 

It's like you want to hear said words, but I mentioned their EEE strategy. I didn't say they would use and be absolutely successful in using it against Steam. I merely mentioned that nothing has stopped from them holding onto said strategy. 

Actually they do. Being lesser than Steam doesn't win you the golden medal, nor does it serve to take away a massive chunk of it's userbase. No one else has bothered to take on Steam, in such a way that it would deliver a massive blow to their userbase and eco. 

So you say there incapable of destroying Steam but mention this EEE strategy? Thats were i am confused. I dont know of this EEE strategy unless you are referring to absorbing there competition.

I agree its highly unlikely Steam will be absorb by MS but nothing is impossible. People can sell out, platforms can change etc. Steam tried to be successful without Windows and it failed quite badly. This is coming from me who loves Steam. Look me up if you have to.

Also your gold medal does not exist. Theres no trophy for selling more consoles/OS/software. People flock to whats more common and easier not whats the best. Being lesser is all about how compeitions work. Remember LG who were lesser and Samsung who were lesser, or even Toyota? Being lesser doesnt reflect the future at all.

Not always are the biggest brands in the world make the best products.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 01 May 2018

Azzanation said:

So you say there incapable of destroying Steam but mention this EEE strategy? Thats were i am confused. I dont know of this EEE strategy unless you are referring to absorbing there competition.

I agree its highly unlikely Steam will be absorb by MS but nothing is impossible. People can sell out, platforms can change etc. Steam tried to be successful without Windows and it failed quite badly. This is coming from me who loves Steam. Look me up if you have to.

Also your gold medal does not exist. Theres no trophy for selling more consoles/OS/software. People flock to whats more common and easier not whats the best. Being lesser is all about how compeitions work. Remember LG who were lesser and Samsung who were lesser, or even Toyota? Being lesser doesnt reflect the future at all.

Not always are the biggest brands in the world make the best products.

I mentioned EEE because they have used it in the past. Look it up if you wish to know more about it.

Nothing is impossible, but the likelihood of MS absorbing Steam is very, very minute. 

"Steam tried to be successful without Windows and it failed quite badly". Except that Steam is still around, and it still operates with Linux and Mac OS as well. I don't really have to do any looking up, but it's obvious as to what company and system you'd like more over the other.

 

The gold medal part is a figure of speech, not an actual physical gold medal. People use the client because it has the tools, it has the filters, it has the most games, and it has a far bigger community than all the other clients combined.

So in the end, what you're saying is, is that MS Win store is amazing and on the same level as Steam. Same for all the other clients as well?.



                                       

Chazore said:
Azzanation said:

So you say there incapable of destroying Steam but mention this EEE strategy? Thats were i am confused. I dont know of this EEE strategy unless you are referring to absorbing there competition.

I agree its highly unlikely Steam will be absorb by MS but nothing is impossible. People can sell out, platforms can change etc. Steam tried to be successful without Windows and it failed quite badly. This is coming from me who loves Steam. Look me up if you have to.

Also your gold medal does not exist. Theres no trophy for selling more consoles/OS/software. People flock to whats more common and easier not whats the best. Being lesser is all about how compeitions work. Remember LG who were lesser and Samsung who were lesser, or even Toyota? Being lesser doesnt reflect the future at all.

Not always are the biggest brands in the world make the best products.

So in the end, what you're saying is, is that MS Win store is amazing and on the same level as Steam. Same for all the other clients as well?.

No, Win10 Store is not as good as Steam in my opinion however that's me basing what it is right now not what it might become in 2 to 5 years down the line. However Win10 Stores Ammunition is MS's 1st party games, something Valve cannot compete with unless they start making games in a hurry or buying out other studios to keep Steam Unique. Because at the end of the day, Green Light games and Indie games is Steams strength over there competitors however when Win10 store starts to grow its 3rd party and Indie libraries plus the inclusions of MS's major titles it starts to look quite obvious which Platform has a lot more potential in the future.

Will wait and see. The reason I brought up examples like LG was because I remember when they were new to the market and I disliked there products and they were considered crap. Now look at how big LG is today, and now lead by example and are one of the biggest appliance brands in the world. That's why we can laugh at Win10 right now however iv seen how companies can turn things around and become the biggest and the best. You have to start somewhere and right now MS are making some bold moves with Win10 by keeping majority of there future games off there competitors platforms like Steam. I know a lot would bitch and complain about that move however that's business and that's most likely what they will do to get your money. 



Azzanation said:

 No, Win10 Store is not as good as Steam in my opinion however that's me basing what it is right now not what it might become in 2 to 5 years down the line. However Win10 Stores Ammunition is MS's 1st party games, something Valve cannot compete with unless they start making games in a hurry or buying out other studios to keep Steam Unique. Because at the end of the day, Green Light games and Indie games is Steams strength over there competitors however when Win10 store starts to grow its 3rd party and Indie libraries plus the inclusions of MS's major titles it starts to look quite obvious which Platform has a lot more potential in the future.

Will wait and see. The reason I brought up examples like LG was because I remember when they were new to the market and I disliked there products and they were considered crap. Now look at how big LG is today, and now lead by example and are one of the biggest appliance brands in the world. That's why we can laugh at Win10 right now however iv seen how companies can turn things around and become the biggest and the best. You have to start somewhere and right now MS are making some bold moves with Win10 by keeping majority of there future games off there competitors platforms like Steam. I know a lot would bitch and complain about that move however that's business and that's most likely what they will do to get your money. 

The store has been a thing for quite some time now. It has had time before to change, just like it does now, yet we are not seeing said change being openly discussed or even made public as to what changes are going to be made within said 2-5 years.

MS's first party titles are not the ultimate end all to be all, especially considering that those that are already locked onto Win 10 store, have not been doing all that well sales wise, which is why we've seen some of them being placed on the Steam store (not out of goodwill, please, let's be brutally serious, it's for the money at the end of the day).

Valve doesn't do things in a hurry, in case you haven't already noticed over the years. They are a privately owned company, thus they have no head CEO or president to answer to like MS does. They do not need to "hurry" and toss out games like some headless and frantic chicken. They also do not need to buy up a load of other studios like MS likes to do (and then cancel/warp). They have in the past, hired dev teams, just like they have done recently with the Firewatch team, though they are actually letting that team operate freely, rather than cracking the sequel whip like bigger companies do.

Win 10 isn't really "growing" it's third party. It will always be that store that has titles of it's own, just like Steam and GoG do, as well as Origin, but at the same time, Steam will still have access to said third party titles. Even if MS gains some third party titles (I say some, because if you want all of them, you're looking at a few thousand games that are only on Steam as of this reply, and that's a lot to write and court for MS), Steam still has a few thousand more and counting. They also would have to play catch up with the modding community, which Steam supports heavily (while all the other clients do not, with the smallest exception for Bethesda's creation club, which is already severely limited in it's capability). 

"it starts to look obvious which platform has a lot more potential in the future"

You mean MS and the Win 10 store?. Nah, not by a long shot. I know you honestly want that to happen, you want your fave company to rise above the rest, but that's honestly not going to happen with the way MS operates and the way it wants to control everything under it's foot. 

 

We've already been waiting for years now and so far, not much has happened. I take it we'll be waiting another decade for something to actually happen, but even by then, Valve won't be sitting there doing bugger all.

You can apply one company's story to another, but that's like saying anything is possible for anyone, just except the people that are crippled, the people that are in debt in the thousands, the companies that are in debt in the millions etc. Yeah, anything is possible, just as long as you're not hindered in any way going forward or in the past. I am not a firm believer in "anything is possible", simply because that logic is warped when you are faced with multiple factors and of course, general reality. If I wanted to live in a Disney world, I would if it were possible, but it frankly is absurdly not and never will be due to how this world actually works and all the factors at play.

They can try their best at keeping their games off of competitor storefronts, but really at the end of the day, they are the ones who lose out on the money, while others simply take advantage of the decisions they make.