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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Nintendo Switch is winning because it’s ‘good enough’

quickrick said:
LOL these articles are funny. using eshop as proof of a games doing well, which we have no idea what there selling, and switch is winning what exactly? it just came out and ps4 is still out selling it monthly, it hasn't been even out for a full year yet. yet i keep saying theses switch is winning posts. next year sales could fall big time we don't know yet.

did you create this account just to downplay and talk bad about the switch at any given time?



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Zekkyou said:

"Switch is proving that graphics are not the driver of success"

Why does the Switch need to prove this? It's been demonstrated to varying degrees every generation, and I can't remember claims to the contrary being common (I actually can't remember ever seeing any, but i'm sure there are some). Good graphics are highly valued by a significant portion of the market, but it's never been the end all of the discussion. I value graphics enough to spend £3k+ on a gaming PC, and have done plenty of bitching about the Switch's hardware (i only use it as a home console, so it's peak levels of potato to me), and even i'll still play and enjoy BotW or SMO because they're good games.

I don't understand why the article paints Sony and MS as graphics obsessed either. The PS4 and X1 made significant hardware compromises in favour of other goals. For the PS4 price, and the ease of game development were given priority. Even the Pro and X1X, which are explicitly designed to help ward off the graphics fatigue that sets in for some, are still quite price conscious and built to be kind to developers. Sony and MS use graphics as a marketing point sometimes (particularly MS right now, for obvious reasons), and they do push their hardware as hard as they can (even Nintendo do), but they've tried quite hard to paint a 'games first' image this gen. Enough so that both their E3's have morphed into a one to two hour gameplay marathon :p

All in all i'd say the Switch is as graphics conscious a handheld as the base PS4 and X1 are home consoles. Where Nintendo hit gold is leveraging that power in a different way, so that instead of it just being a powerful handheld, it was also a workable home console. For those that value portability 'workable' is indeed 'good enough'.

Yep. Consumers aren't dumb. It's never been exclusively about the graphics, it's always been about the best value for your dollar. That's why the PS2 won and not the Xbox or Gamecube. A lot of Playstation 2 games look like they could be Gamecube games and vice versa. 

I've heard people start saying stuff like"but but PS4 is winning this gen and the base model is the most powerful base console", but even that wouldn't make sense as an argument because the PS4 had more support and was 100$ cheaper at launch. This has never been a case with any console manufacturer, in fact Microsoft have sacrificied visual fidelity for a consistent 60 frames per second this gen, although Sony did try to push graphics a bit with the 3. Sony and Microsoft do focus on graphics, but that's only in relation to Nintendo, and really it's more like Nintendo focuses less on graphics in relation to the entire rest of the market. 

I do agree with the articles basic premise that the Switch is succeeding because it's graphics are "good enough", but then again they better be for a device that's selling entirely on being a home console-experience that you can take on the go. So yes, the article is right, and in some ways Nintendo should get credit for making a unique device, but still it's a bit too black and white and basic.



Zekkyou said:
quickrick said:
LOL these articles are funny. using eshop as proof of a games doing well, which we have no idea what there selling, and switch is winning what exactly? it just came out and ps4 is still out selling it monthly, it hasn't been even out for a full year yet. yet i keep saying theses switch is winning posts. next year sales could fall big time we don't know yet.

I expect he's referring to NPD.

yea switch winning by a insignificant amount means its winning? its just came out, and nintedo is bringing most of there big guns, they also had stock issues so sales are gonna inflated till demand is  met, once  it has which was september/october we can see start seeing how well it will sell on a monthly bases. this article acts like switch guaranteed to out sell ps4. 



IkePoR said:
Ljink96 said:

I know people hate to hear this but it's the damn truth. The runner ups are games from other Japanese 3rd parties that have the same vision as Nintendo or somewhere in that vein. Stuff like RPGs from Square Enix, Sega's titles, Capcom, etc. 

OP:

The Switch is not groundbreaking in the graphics or processing department but it's an amazing device for how small it is. And yeah, I'd say having an amazing handheld component and "good enough" performance for multiplats is fine. PC gamers every day have to deal with minimum and medium settings. As long as the game runs well enough, I think it's fine. If you want a better experience sure, go get a PS4 or Xbone for those games. No biggie. But  Nintendo's stronghold isn't multiplats, it's exclusives. And boy do they have a shit ton of them that sell really well. 

But you know what?  I'll take those oddball 3rd party RPG's and other such experiences over other consoles top 10's reading GTA, CoD, CoD, Star Wars, Destiny, CoD, Madden, etc.

Agreed. In an gaming era of monotony in more ways than one, I really appreciate weird yet well done games of any genre. It's just more appealing to me and the variety of it keeps me into gaming. 



I can only really speak for myself. I don't own a Switch yet but when I get one it will be 80% because of Nintendo's own games and 20% to play third party games in portable mode. Skyrim is great but I've played it on many other systems. I want it for Switch but not anywhere near the same level as Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart or Zelda partly because most other systems run Skyrim better.



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Zekkyou said:

Many do care (there's literally an industry largely powered by that care), it's just not all they care about.

I don't really understand your last point. I agree Nintendo shouldn't make a PS4 clone, but that argument has always been made on the basis that it'd (potentially) give Nintendo something close to home console 3rd party parity with Sony and MS. The Switch doesn't have anywhere near that yet (and personally i don't think it ever will), so it seems silly to say it's effortlessly shutting down that 'narrative'.

Yes, there are people who care about having the latest and greatest specs, not saying there aren't. What I am saying, is that your average consumer isn't going buy a console based on how many gigaflpops or polygons it can churn out. They just want good games that look good. That's why the Switch is succeeding, it's a product that offers great games that look good enough, without having to brag about or try and have the most powerful hardware on the market. 

As for the second point, while the Switch isn't going to get every 3rd party game, especially the obvious *too-demanding-for-tablet-hardware* games, developers are still going to support it with content anyway because it's a successful platform that's both very easy, and very cheap to develop for, which allows for low-cost, exclusive software, akin to the support of the DS. Besides, most games are developed on flexible, easy to use, and easy to scale engines these days like SnowDrop, Unreal Engine 4, and especially id Tech 6, so there's still plenty of content from the PS4 and Xbox One that can be ported over to the Switch, without getting into the overly demanding stuff. 



Miguel_Zorro said:

People buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. When we look back on the top 10 best selling Switch games, none of them will be Rocket League, Skyrim, or Doom.

They'll all be published by Nintendo or have Mario in them somehow.

So? If Nintendo games were on other platforms, they would be in the top 10 best selling list of those platforms as well.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Yep. Consumers aren't dumb. It's never been exclusively about the graphics, it's always been about the best value for your dollar. That's why the PS2 won and not the Xbox or Gamecube. A lot of Playstation 2 games look like they could be Gamecube games and vice versa. 

I've heard people start saying stuff like"but but PS4 is winning this gen and the base model is the most powerful base console", but even that wouldn't make sense as an argument because the PS4 had more support and was 100$ cheaper at launch. This has never been a case with any console manufacturer, in fact Microsoft have sacrificied visual fidelity for a consistent 60 frames per second this gen, although Sony did try to push graphics a bit with the 3. Sony and Microsoft do focus on graphics, but that's only in relation to Nintendo, and really it's more like Nintendo focuses less on graphics in relation to the entire rest of the market. 

I do agree with the articles basic premise that the Switch is succeeding because it's graphics are "good enough", but then again they better be for a device that's selling entirely on being a home console-experience that you can take on the go. So yes, the article is right, and in some ways Nintendo should get credit for making a unique device, but still it's a bit too black and white and basic.

Graphics likley did play a larger than normal role in the PS4's victory, but it was a 'free' advantage. As you note, it ultimately comes down to value. Success is dependent on appealing to a large chunk of the market, and to achieve that you have to do pretty well at lots of things. Being the king of one thing is usually not enough, and no one can be king of everything.

I completely agree that Nintendo deserves credit for the Switch. As much as it doesn't mesh well with many of my own preferences, there's no denying the general value in Switch's ideas and their execution.

On a side note, i think it's interesting how similar the Switch and PS4 are in some respects. They both represent a significant compromise on what Sony and Nintendo wish they could do (Sony acknowledging that the market doesn't always want a premium 'look how shiny the box is' product, and Nintendo acknowledging they can't consistently maintain two ecosystems on their own), and the market is rewarding them for that compromise.



TheMisterManGuy said:
Zekkyou said:

Many do care (there's literally an industry largely powered by that care), it's just not all they care about.

I don't really understand your last point. I agree Nintendo shouldn't make a PS4 clone, but that argument has always been made on the basis that it'd (potentially) give Nintendo something close to home console 3rd party parity with Sony and MS. The Switch doesn't have anywhere near that yet (and personally i don't think it ever will), so it seems silly to say it's effortlessly shutting down that 'narrative'.

Yes, there are people who care about having the latest and greatest specs, not saying there aren't. What I am saying, is that your average consumer isn't going buy a console based on how many gigaflpops or polygons it can churn out. They just want good games that look good. That's why the Switch is succeeding, it's a product that offers great games that look good enough, without having to brag about or try and have the most powerful hardware on the market. 

As for the second point, while the Switch isn't going to get every 3rd party game, especially the obvious *too-demanding-for-tablet-hardware* games, developers are still going to support it with content anyway because it's a successful platform that's both very easy, and very cheap to develop for, which allows for low-cost, exclusive software, akin to the support of the DS. Besides, most games are developed on flexible, easy to use, and easy to scale engines these days like SnowDrop, Unreal Engine 4, and especially id Tech 6, so there's still plenty of content from the PS4 and Xbox One that can be ported over to the Switch, without getting into the overly demanding stuff. 

The Switch is about as power conscious a handheld as the PS4 and X1 are home consoles. Spec wise it's effectively a Nintendo PSP/Vita, but it leverages that power in a different (and arguably better) way. 'Good enough' as a home console is quite context dependent, and it's the added portability that defines that standard for the Switch. If it was a $300 home console with the same specs, i don't think it'd be unreasonable to say it'd be doing considerably worse. Even at $200 i'd expect it to do worse.

Of course, the Switch's success makes support inevitable. I just took issue with you claiming it was shutting down a narrative that (right or wrong) is distinct from the one the Switch is painting. 



IkePoR said: 

But you know what?  I'll take those oddball 3rd party RPG's and other such experiences over other consoles top 10's reading GTA, CoD, CoD, Star Wars, Destiny, CoD, Madden, etc.

Well to be fair, there's not exactly a lot of RPGs on the Switch currently and there probably will not be for a long time. The Switch is an odd console because it's really the best system for RPGs, yet because the big third party japanese developers put all their eggs in the Sony basket, you're really only left with the scraps. We also don't know how a majority of niche 3DS developers are feeling about the Switch, but if I had to guess i'd say they're in a pickle, the 3ds as a closed environment allowed for great success for niche franchises because the specs and pricing of software allowed for a lot of copies to be sold. Now they're competing for shelf-space, and for consumers, on a console that can do a hell of a lot more than what they previously advertised on the 3DS. Plus, despite being a traditional console, the PS4 has sold niche software quite well.

The point is that that's not really a good argument yet because the Switch isn't the place to be for those "oddball" 3rd party RPGs. The PS4 is. It will be in 2 years time maybe. There is still some goods to chew on, Xenoblade 2 being a great first party RPG, and Octopath Traveler being one of my most anticipated games of 2018. But if you were to say "I like how the Switch has those oddball RPGs that sell over the GTA's, COD, etc." that wouldn't be an accurate statement.