"Yes, we have laws to deal with the offenders, but they're not getting caught and if they are, people stay silent about it."
1. isn't there like a list for sex offenders?
yes many aren't caught especially because of the private nature of the problem, which is why individual empowerment and responsibility is crucial
" I think it's more of a cultural issue anyway"
2. rape culture?
""Your point is blatantly incorrect. If we didn't even try to fight crime": I don't understand why you think this is a strawman"
3. because i didn't state explicitly or implicitly that we should not fight crime
"I said we've largely managed to eliminate problems related to selfishness"
4. and you're wrong and acknowledge that you are wrong when you talk about all of the sex offenders that get away with it... i mean good grief even up above you suggest that our culture is lenient towards harassers, not that i even really agree with that point but it shows that you're contradicting yourself
"you seemed to ignore the fact that there is less crime that there would be if we didn't try to fight it."
5. and sexual harassment is against the law... so what is your point exactly?.... this is a crime that IS fought
""that you either have only one solution that puts all responsibility on the victims": You conveniently cut out the part where I provided an alternative"
6. the rest of your post doesn't change the fact that its a strawman since you are saying that i'm saying that i want to put all responsibility on potential victims
"I knew you would hinge onto this minor detail. You ignored the whole point of that paragraph and focused on one minor detail that bears no importance on its own."
7. here is the paragraph in its entirety
"Like I said, I agree about your point, I just think it's your tone that's the problem. The only solution to the harassment problem I've heard coming from you so far is victims defending themselves more effectively, but you've pretty much completely ignored the offenders and in fact shown some understanding towards them."
you stated that last part as if i should not try to understand their perspective... which obviously if you are trying to solve a problem caused by them is necessary... and that's why i gave my response
"Also, I'm not looking for validation."
8. i didn't say you were... that comment tbh was more towards the type of person who runs into a thread looking for a boogieman to call a name so they can supposedly feel good about themselves for striking back at someone they imagine is their enemy
"There's no validation for defending the wronged on this site"
9. nonsense, the pursuit of protecting victims is something everyone here generally agrees with and there is a validating effect that comes with that... and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if taken too far it narrows a person's perspective too much
" you still haven't explained why you fear fighting harassment on a social level would require anything that could cause problems."
10. i've addressed this already and its just getting tedious to address something that should be obvious
i mean all i can really say is that the fact that you call an increased emphasis on personal responsibility "victim blaming" is a sign of a problem because it means that the problem must be solved at a social level
but... we already have a social solution called the law... so, what therefore do we do?... we've gotten to this point before and you can't give a proper answer
one way that we could address the problem is to at a social level place greater restrictions on human interaction and that is how things can become oppressive
"Of course many people do intervene, but it sounds like it's too common to ignore harassment, for one reason or another."
11. yes and you think that way again because you're trying to reduce a complex problem down to being a simple black and white situation
12. -couples often get into fights out in public and argue over different issues, does that give some random person who doesn't understand the context of their arguing to intervene?
13. -people are sometimes receptive to being groped or spoken to sexually out in public
14. -why should anyone be required to put themselves on the line to endanger themselves in this way?
15. -generally assault occurs in private on a one on one basis so regardless even if we adopt the principle that intervention should always happen no matter what, its not really a viable solution anyway
16. and tbh i'm curious about you on a personal level, lets say you witness some construction worker yelling at a passing woman "nice tits" or whatever, are you now going to run up and accost that guy to straighten him out?
"Existing laws aren't going to change the situation."
17. true just like laws can't stop murder which i'd say is a more serious problem
"But education and raising awareness might help people remember how they should behave (both to act morally and to not risk getting caught by doing something illegal)"
18. i had a long discussion in another thread recently where i raised the idea that morals need to have an objective standard associated with them so that society doesn't descend into chaos... can you guess what happened?
19. what do you think religion is? what is happening to religion now?