Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama should close his mouth and leave in dignity

hershel_layton said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Obama is so full of shit. Trump was the number one enemy of the media and I didnt see much about the emails outside right wing media. The grabbing pussy thing was used to ruin Trump by the media.

The dems are blaming everyone but themselves for taking a beating this election.

Yes, the private email server should have been mentioned by Obama, but Acting as though it's fine for a president elect to have a history of sexually harassing women.

It's not about the words he said...it's what they mean. 

Well Obama did mention emails, he attacked the media for talking about emails.

Hillary is probably the least trusted person to ever run for office and didn't talk about issues that concerned people outside of her base. In fact, she attacked Trump supporters which only helped him.

Edit: On a side note, I think Hillary was trying to be the voice of the democrats right now which is kinda extreme. Obama ran as a moderate and appealed to more people that way.



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LadyJasmine said:
Lefil said:

“Political Correctness” is a myth, we just want people stop being assholes. What parents would want their child to grow up acting like Donald Trump? 

 

 

Well stoping people from saying racist things is fine.

 

Stoping people from speaking anything divergent from group think is wrong.

If you pay attention you see how utterly rigid the Right is about speech. Their hysteria over the phrase "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is a good example.



Mr Puggsly said:

Hillary is probably the least trusted person to ever run for office and didn't talk about issues that concerned people outside of her base. In fact, she attacked Trump supporters which only helped him.

Edit: On a side note, I think Hillary was trying to be the voice of the democrats right now which is kinda extreme. Obama ran as a moderate and appealed to more people that way.

?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/



SpokenTruth said:

State censorship and politcal correctness are not the same thing.  At all. 

Censorship is the eradication of all discussion about a topic.  Political correcteness is the framing of the discussion to be inclusive without marginalizing others within it.  The former ceases all discussion.  The latter frames the discussion.

I sincerely hope you do not consider that to mean the same thing.

It's just a matter of degree.  In soviet society you got a bullet in your head for discussing topics that are banned by those in power, while in western society you get censored on facebook, twitter, called a racist and accused of being as bad as Hitler even if you have never committed an actual crime.  Both of these things are supression of free speech: in one case force is being used by those in power to supress individuals while in the other lies or exaggeration of the truth is being used.  I agree that one is worse then the other but both of these things are wrong.

Just because somebody has concerns about terrorism doesn't necessarily make them racist.  Just because somebody holds a religious conviction that marriage belongs between a man and a woman doesn't mean they necessarily hate gay people.  Just because somebody believes that life starts at conception doesn't meand that they are sexist and don't care about women's rights.  Political correctness generalizes these people as being bad and when this language is adopted by the media it is a form of oppression.  These viewpoints have a right to exist, you don't have to agree with them or listen to them but it is wrong to characterize them as hateful and censor them without looking at each individual case or trying to understand the intent.



SkepticallyMinded said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Hillary is probably the least trusted person to ever run for office and didn't talk about issues that concerned people outside of her base. In fact, she attacked Trump supporters which only helped him.

Edit: On a side note, I think Hillary was trying to be the voice of the democrats right now which is kinda extreme. Obama ran as a moderate and appealed to more people that way.

?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/

There is no doubt Trump made bogus claims, gave numbers that were unproven and just wrong.

But voters polled showed HIllary was perceived as a liar by her own supporters. The e-mails really bit her in the ass, the Clinton foundation, and she was always fighting her record. Hillary is a corrupt politician. She turned out to be the perfect democrat for Trump to go against.



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US Americans should treasure the shred of dignity they have left and cherish it the short time it is going to last.



Hunting Season is done...

Lefil said:
LadyJasmine said:

 

 

Well stoping people from saying racist things is fine.

 

Stoping people from speaking anything divergent from group think is wrong.

If you pay attention you see how utterly rigid the Right is about speech. Their hysteria over the phrase "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is a good example.

 

Well the issue is that no one really had a problem with Merry Christmas even most non Christains.

 

It was likely one parent of a Jewish or Muslim or non believer who think his or her viewpoints trump others based on self rightouness.

 

 

That is to me the pure issue of Political correctness.

 

We assume it to be a filter against hate but it seems to more spread into silence dissent against a progressive viewpoint....Which is a correct viewpoint but not the only ne.



Illusion said:
SpokenTruth said:

State censorship and politcal correctness are not the same thing.  At all. 

Censorship is the eradication of all discussion about a topic.  Political correcteness is the framing of the discussion to be inclusive without marginalizing others within it.  The former ceases all discussion.  The latter frames the discussion.

I sincerely hope you do not consider that to mean the same thing.

It's just a matter of degree.  In soviet society you got a bullet in your head for discussing topics that are banned by those in power, while in western society you get censored on facebook, twitter, called a racist and accused of being as bad as Hitler even if you have never committed an actual crime.  Both of these things are supression of free speech: in one case force is being used by those in power to supress individuals while in the other lies or exaggeration of the truth is being used.  I agree that one is worse then the other but both of these things are wrong.

Just because somebody has concerns about terrorism doesn't necessarily make them racist.  Just because somebody holds a religious conviction that marriage belongs between a man and a woman doesn't mean they necessarily hate gay people.  Just because somebody believes that life starts at conception doesn't meand that they are sexist and don't care about women's rights.  Political correctness generalizes these people as being bad and when this language is adopted by the media it is a form of oppression.  These viewpoints have a right to exist, you don't have to agree with them or listen to them but it is wrong to characterize them as hateful and censor them without looking at each individual case or trying to understand the intent.

In that case, all political correctness is doing is trying to teach people not to be an asshole when discussing sensitive topics.  You can discuss illegal immigration, gay marriage, religion, terrorism, etc...without being hateful in the process.   It's when you use language that is racist that you get called a racist.  

If you want the freedom to say racists things you better be preprared to accept the fact people get call you racist.  Simple as that. You can't have freedom of speech to be racist and then tell others they don't have the freedom of speech to call you out on it.

You are also confusing political correctness with liberal policy.  Either because you're not aware of the difference or you've been raised in a home that teaches it (sadly, this works both ways on much of the problems we have world wide).  If a liberal calls you sexist for not accepting abortion, that's not political correctness.  That is the right of the left to debate your policy (just as it is the right of the, uh, right, to debate policy on the left).   Political correctness does not tell you that you cannot discussion abortion...or even hold a policy against it.  Political correctness is only about framing that disucssion in terminology and tone that isn't abrasive, insulting, disparaging or hateful.

Non-PC discussion: Only sluts get abortions.

PC discussion: Women with loose morals are more likely to seek out abortions.

Your topic is the same yet instead of sounding hateful and instigating an argument, you've opened dialog that others on both sides of the debate will be more willing to engage in.  Again, it's nothing more than framing the discussion so you don't come off as an asshole. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

In that case, all political correctness is doing is trying to teach people not to be an asshole when discussing sensitive topics.  You can discuss illegal immigration, gay marriage, religion, terrorism, etc...without being hateful in the process.   It's when you use language that is racist that you get called a racist.  

If you want the freedom to say racists things you better be preprared to accept the fact people get call you racist.  Simple as that. You can't have freedom of speech to be racist and then tell others they don't have the freedom of speech to call you out on it.

You are also confusing political correctness with liberal policy.  Either because you're not aware of the difference or you've been raised in a home that teaches it (sadly, this works both ways on much of the problems we have world wide).  If a liberal calls you sexist for not accepting abortion, that's not political correctness.  That is the right of the left to debate your policy (just as it is the right of the, uh, right, to debate policy on the left).   Political correctness does not tell you that you cannot discussion abortion...or even hold a policy against it.  Political correctness is only about framing that disucssion in terminology and tone that isn't abrasive, insulting, disparaging or hateful.

Non-PC discussion: Only sluts get abortions.

PC discussion: Women with loose morals are more likely to seek out abortions.

Your topic is the same yet instead of sounding hateful and instigating an argument, you've opened dialog that others on both sides of the debate will be more willing to engage in.  Again, it's nothing more than framing the discussion so you don't come off as an asshole. 

Maybe you should try spending some time holding conservative viewpoints see how political correctness is used against you.  You will never see the ugly side of it if you only hold left-wing values.  In Canada our elected representatives are not even allowed to discuss the question of when life begins because it is considered to be a "hurtful" topic regardless of how polite you are.  We have a tribunals who actively censor "hurtful" speech and we have had priests get prosecuted just for speaking in favor of traditional marriage because it is deemed hurtful to same-sex couples.  What about the feelings of the hundreds of thousands of Christians who can no longer safely express their religious values in a public forum?  In Canada political correctness is enforced by law, in the US it is enforced by the media which alters public opinion, but the effect is the same: conservative views are severely stifled and not welcome no matter how politely they are expressed.

You may think that political correctness provides fairness for everybody but in actuality it only provides protection for those who hold liberal values, conservatives get stomped on.  It's not politically incorrect to call somebody a racist who isn't actually a racist, because nobody actually looks into it to find out what the true intentions of the person are.  Furthermore, you hear words like sexist, homophobe and racist hundreds of times a day but how many times do you hear words like: anti-Christian bigot, manhater, or somebody who is racist against white people?  There is no politically correct vocabulary to protect these people because the political establishment is against all things traditional and these people mean nothing to them.  You have no right to insist that political correctness is fair unless you have spent time on our side of the fence.  You may think that things are good right now, but from our point of view things are horrible because you can't even talk about the problems without getting blasted with some politically correct label like "racist" that doesn't even describe your true intentions.  This is why so many people turned to Donald Trump, when he gets called a racist without actually making any racist remarks we can all relate to the abuse that he is sbujected to because we have been subjected to it as well.  Donald Trump is our way of letting you know how bad things are, those in power don't get to ignore half the population and insist that we are being treated fairly when things are so unjust.  



Illusion said:
SpokenTruth said:

In that case, all political correctness is doing is trying to teach people not to be an asshole when discussing sensitive topics.  You can discuss illegal immigration, gay marriage, religion, terrorism, etc...without being hateful in the process.   It's when you use language that is racist that you get called a racist.  

If you want the freedom to say racists things you better be preprared to accept the fact people get call you racist.  Simple as that. You can't have freedom of speech to be racist and then tell others they don't have the freedom of speech to call you out on it.

You are also confusing political correctness with liberal policy.  Either because you're not aware of the difference or you've been raised in a home that teaches it (sadly, this works both ways on much of the problems we have world wide).  If a liberal calls you sexist for not accepting abortion, that's not political correctness.  That is the right of the left to debate your policy (just as it is the right of the, uh, right, to debate policy on the left).   Political correctness does not tell you that you cannot discussion abortion...or even hold a policy against it.  Political correctness is only about framing that disucssion in terminology and tone that isn't abrasive, insulting, disparaging or hateful.

Non-PC discussion: Only sluts get abortions.

PC discussion: Women with loose morals are more likely to seek out abortions.

Your topic is the same yet instead of sounding hateful and instigating an argument, you've opened dialog that others on both sides of the debate will be more willing to engage in.  Again, it's nothing more than framing the discussion so you don't come off as an asshole. 

Maybe you should try spending some time holding conservative viewpoints see how political correctness is used against you.  You will never see the ugly side of it if you only hold left-wing values.  In Canada our elected representatives are not even allowed to discuss the question of when life begins because it is considered to be a "hurtful" topic regardless of how polite you are.  We have a tribunals who actively censor "hurtful" speech and we have had priests get prosecuted just for speaking in favor of traditional marriage because it is deemed hurtful to same-sex couples.  What about the feelings of the hundreds of thousands of Christians who can no longer safely express their religious values in a public forum?  In Canada political correctness is enforced by law, in the US it is enforced by the media which alters public opinion, but the effect is the same: conservative views are severely stifled and not welcome no matter how politely they are expressed.

You may think that political correctness provides fairness for everybody but in actuality it only provides protection for those who hold liberal values, conservatives get stomped on.  It's not politically incorrect to call somebody a racist who isn't actually a racist, because nobody actually looks into it to find out what the true intentions of the person are.  Furthermore, you hear words like sexist, homophobe and racist hundreds of times a day but how many times do you hear words like: anti-Christian bigot, manhater, or somebody who is racist against white people?  There is no politically correct vocabulary to protect these people because the political establishment is against all things traditional and these people mean nothing to them.  You have no right to insist that political correctness is fair unless you have spent time on our side of the fence.  You may think that things are good right now, but from our point of view things are horrible because you can't even talk about the problems without getting blasted with some politically correct label like "racist" that doesn't even describe your true intentions.  This is why so many people turned to Donald Trump, when he gets called a racist without actually making any racist remarks we can all relate to the abuse that he is sbujected to because we have been subjected to it as well.  Donald Trump is our way of letting you know how bad things are, those in power don't get to ignore half the population and insist that we are being treated fairly when things are so unjust.  

I'm a registered Republican.  But please, continue.  Tell me again how I don't spend time on the other side of the fence.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."