Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shin Megami Tensei IV official website: ‘In 15,000 tweets, a disaster will begin’

spemanig said:
Hiku said:

-snip-


Good news, though. I'm sure you won't need me to spell it out for you:

 

Oh wow. I thought that only looked like her, because I noticed some slight differences, so I thought it was a different monster. But that actually is her. Looks like our prayers were heard then. That looks a lot less grotesque. Can't be an easy job to clean up some of his artwork though, like Lilith. Even if they make her look better, will she still have that giant gaping mouth, or will they remove things like that completely? I'm hoping for the latter.

And I found more great news on the SMT IV Final artwork.



This makes me more hopeful, because Nirasawa's artwork had a negative impact on the atmosphere for me.



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Hiku said:

Yeah, his creations are not redesigned in a fundamental way when they appear in 3d. But the 3d models in P3 have a more cartoony style and are less detailed.



Btw, I want to note that I mistakenly remembered that the enemy sprites in SMT IV were just cropped out images of their official artwork. There was this enemy in the beginning of the game that looked like a blue horse with two heads. It was one of Nirasawa's abominations, and I remembered it like it was, perhaps because the artwork appears when you have a conversation with the monster. Another reason was because artwork of the enemies will often appear during boss battles.

Anyway, the monsters and characters in battle look fairly cartoony in P3. And Kaneko's distinct doll-like/human style faces for example on some of his humanoid characters are not particularly apparent in this style.
Actually, after thinking about this, I realized you may never actually fight any of Kanako's creations in Persona 3. And 4?
The monsters tend to look like this.

I may be remembering wrong, but I can't recall the monsters you face in battle ever being the Persona that you can acquire. In Persona 4 you face the Persona that your main characters use at one point or another, but I'm not sure who designed those.

So if that's the case, the only time you see Kaneko's monster design in P3 is when you use them as the main character, which causes a transparent ghost like image of them to appear above him for a brief moment when he shoots himself in the head with an evoker.

In the everyday life gameplay/story, you'll only ever see Soejima's artwork. And in battles, it's this cartoony style. In Menus you can see both Soejima and Kaneko's art. But along with the 3d cartoony, less detailed style in battle, and the separation of monsters from society, it made it feel like none of the designs were out of place.

It's a bit different when you see Doi's characters having a conversation with Kaneko's characters in SMT IV. But perhaps because of how I transitioned through the series, I didn't think about it as strange.

-

Well, Persona also started off being all Kaneko:



And that was appreciated. And then came Persona 3 with mixed artists for characters and Persona, and that was appreciated as well.
I agree that Kaneko's style feels more suited for a darker atmosphere. But I wonder if the mainline SMT series will go back to being all Kaneko. It may not. We're now seeing what appears to be yet another artist for SMT IV: Final.


Yeah, but like I said, I feel like the new style fits Persona better than Kaneko's style, which is why I don't mind it. I think Persona 5 would be worse in his style. But I feel the opposite with the mainline series.

In regards to Final, I think that's just because it's set in literally the same universe. It wouldn't make sense to change artists for a spin off game like that.



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Hiku said:

Oh wow. I thought that only looked like her, because I noticed some slight differences, so I thought it was a different monster. But that actually is her. Looks like our prayers were heard then. That looks a lot less grotesque. Can't be an easy job to clean up some of his artwork though, like Lilith. Even if they make her look better, will she still have that giant gaping mouth, or will they remove things like that completely? I'm hoping for the latter.

And I found more great news on the SMT IV Final artwork.



This makes me more hopeful, because Nirasawa's artwork had a negative impact on the atmosphere for me.


Oh yeah, good find, there. Medusa looks lightyears better now. It's weird how many demon's they're reusing, though...



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spemanig said:

Yeah, but like I said, I feel like the new style fits Persona better than Kaneko's style, which is why I don't mind it. I think Persona 5 would be worse in his style. But I feel the opposite with the mainline series.

In regards to Final, I think that's just because it's set in literally the same universe. It wouldn't make sense to change artists for a spin off game like that.

Regarding Final, maybe there's been some miscommunication, but I said that there appears to be a new artist. At least to me, it doesn't look like Doi's work for the main characters any more. And then there's whoever's responsible for redesigning Nirasawa's artwork. Whether it's the main artist, Nirasawa himself, or someone else, these monsters are getting a different look.
But I agree it doesn't make much sense to change artists for a spinoff like this, so I'm not sure why they did that if that's the case. Unless Doi's work was also criticized like I assume Nirasawa's was. Or unless the game is very fundamentally different than the previous one.
I'd like to see an all Kaneko SMT game again. But I think they're going for mixed designs because they feel like some more 'contemporary' artists are a better look for the game as it's face outwards, for commercial purposes.



spemanig said:


Oh yeah, good find, there. Medusa looks lightyears better now. It's weird how many demon's they're reusing, though...

Yeah, she looks way better, and quite different, so now I have high hopes for them changing Lilith and the archangels, etc, in more radical ways.
I also see what appears to be Lucifer above and between Merkabah and Navarre, but half his face is obscured, and can't really see much of what changes they made to him.



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Hiku said:

Regarding Final, maybe there's been some miscommunication, but I said that there appears to be a new artist. At least to me, it doesn't look like Doi's work for the main characters any more. And then there's whoever's responsible for redesigning Nirasawa's artwork. Whether it's the main artist, Nirasawa himself, or someone else, these monsters are getting a different look.
But I agree it doesn't make much sense to change artists for a spinoff like this, so I'm not sure why they did that if that's the case. Unless Doi's work was also criticized like I assume Nirasawa's was. Or unless the game is very fundamentally different than the previous one.
I'd like to see an all Kaneko SMT game again. But I think they're going for mixed designs because they feel like some more 'contemporary' artists are a better look for the game as it's face outwards, for commercial purposes.


It is Doi. Famitsu confirmed it. (Don't read too much of the translation though. There are already spoilers on the premise I wish I didn't see.) They kinda made it sound like Doi did the demon redesigns too, but Doi is 100% still doing the character art. It was very explicit about that.

So they didn't change artists for this spin off, at least not for the characters. They did mention that they are heavily taking fan feedback into consideration, which is great. That's likely why they redrew those demons. It's already confirmed that conversing with demons is improved, which sucks for me since I liked how unpredictable they were since they're demons, not buddies, but to each his own.

I agree that that's exactly why they're going with Doi. And maybe that's the best decision, financially. I just feel like it makes for a vastly less visually interesting end result. I look at Nocturne, and through research, I'm sure I'd like it less than IV because of how dated the gameplay and storytelling is compared to IV, yet I'm so compelled to play through the game just because of how absolutely beautiful the game looks. Seeing that same style, in HD, with all the improvements SMTIV brought in gameplay, would make my heart melt. I even think that, in HD, that might be enough to sell it on its own merits even more than Doi's style.



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DerNebel said:
Darwinianevolution said:

Maybe is a timezones thing? Not enough people are awake to see this?

Must be, the US fans are still sleeping, though you'd expect there to be enough japanese fans to achieve this goal.

Or people are all bitter because of the P5 delay and want Atlus to finish one game before announcing another.

That's rather petty.



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spemanig said:

It is Doi. Famitsu confirmed it. (Don't read too much of the translation though. There are already spoilers on the premise I wish I didn't see.) They kinda made it sound like Doi did the demon redesigns too, but Doi is 100% still doing the character art. It was very explicit about that.

So they didn't change artists for this spin off, at least not for the characters. They did mention that they are heavily taking fan feedback into consideration, which is great. That's likely why they redrew those demons. It's already confirmed that conversing with demons is improved, which sucks for me since I liked how unpredictable they were since they're demons, not buddies, but to each his own.

I agree that that's exactly why they're going with Doi. And maybe that's the best decision, financially. I just feel like it makes for a vastly less visually interesting end result. I look at Nocturne, and through research, I'm sure I'd like it less than IV because of how dated the gameplay and storytelling is compared to IV, yet I'm so compelled to play through the game just because of how absolutely beautiful the game looks. Seeing that same style, in HD, with all the improvements SMTIV brought in gameplay, would make my heart melt. I even think that, in HD, that might be enough to sell it on its own merits even more than Doi's style.

Oh yeah, I see now that he's listed under Character Design. That's good news for me. I'd rather have someone I already like that someone untested. (Thanks Nirasawa for making me worry about that.) I still don't recognise his style in those characters though. Then again I've only seen his work for SMT IV, the Persona 2 port for PSP, and Trauma Center, so I'm no expert.

It's good to hear that they're listening closely to feedback. About the demon conversations, thety keep making changes and improvements between every game, from my experience. But it's always tricky, so hopefully that part won't change all of a sudden.

As for Nocturne, a huge part of why I loved it was the atmosphere. It has one of the thickest atmospheres I've experienced, along with Majora's Mask. I'm not sure how that would hold up for me today though, considering the rather thin storytelling. The gameplay I think is ok compared to SMT IV. That you see all the characters on your team during combat, and the battle animations along with the very satisfying sound effect of Demifiend hitting the opponent, I feel like that part will hold up well in comparison. There's no 'Smirk' mechanic though to consider for strategy. But the fusion mechanics are terribly overcomplicated in comparison, and they make the game harder by only allowing you to learn each skill once for Demifiend, and only once. If you ditch it for another skill, you'll never be able to learn it again in any way.
I also really liked that Dante from DMC was in the game. But that was also during the height of the DMC hype.



Hiku said:

Oh yeah, I see now that he's listed under Character Design. That's good news for me. I'd rather have someone I already like that someone untested. (Thanks Nirasawa for making me worry about that.) I still don't recognise his style in those characters though. Then again I've only seen his work for SMT IV, the Persona 2 port for PSP, and Trauma Center, so I'm no expert.

It's good to hear that they're listening closely to feedback. About the demon conversations, thety keep making changes and improvements between every game, from my experience. But it's always tricky, so hopefully that part won't change all of a sudden.

As for Nocturne, a huge part of why I loved it was the atmosphere. It has one of the thickest atmospheres I've experienced, along with Majora's Mask. I'm not sure how that would hold up for me today though, considering the rather thin storytelling. The gameplay I think is ok compared to SMT IV. That you see all the characters on your team during combat, and the battle animations along with the very satisfying sound effect of Demifiend hitting the opponent, I feel like that part will hold up well in comparison. There's no 'Smirk' mechanic though to consider for strategy. But the fusion mechanics are terribly overcomplicated in comparison, and they make the game harder by only allowing you to learn each skill once for Demifiend, and only once. If you ditch it for another skill, you'll never be able to learn it again in any way.
I also really liked that Dante from DMC was in the game. But that was also during the height of the DMC hype.


With gameplay, I mean stuff like random encounters, the way demon fusing works, the way transferring moves works, and the way Demifiend is built as a physical user when I like magic users. I feel like it's hard to go back after playing SMTIV.



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spemanig said:

With gameplay, I mean stuff like random encounters, the way demon fusing works, the way transferring moves works, and the way Demifiend is built as a physical user when I like magic users. I feel like it's hard to go back after playing SMTIV.

You're right about demon fusing and the way moves are transfered. Demifiend isn't built in any particular way though. The only thing he has from the start is a normal attack. So it's up to you to decide how he turns out, like with the main character in SMT IV. But many think that going physical build is the best choice for Demifiend, because several of the best skills in the game are physical based.
As for Random Encounters, there is that of course. But to be honest, SMT IV didn't take a big step away from that, because enemies spawn around you even if you're standing still. And their running speed is about 95% that of yours. So it can be tricky to outright avoid a battle in certain situations. In SMT III, you can at least stand still and take a moment to think about where you're going next, and where you came from. I found myself unable to do that many times in SMT IV, and I didn't have time to look at the map properly or figure out where I am or where I'm going before an enemy rushed towards me.

One thing I hope they add to SMT IV Final is a map inside the menu.