Forums - Sony Discussion - Kingdom Hearts 2.8... Wtf?

Nem said:
Rob5VGC said:


Yes. DDD is the "mainstream" knowledge of 3D, which is irrelevant to what I am talking about(Just the 3). Would love to cite because I only state facts, and while I did look for it, it pains me to say that I could not find it in my KH sources when I read it the day it was released(like all the interviews), which was in 2011 prior to the games release and after the 3D-DDD explaination. Thats what happens with the interviews as the years go by.

Unfortunately, I have to settle for the poor man's version of it in 2010, so here it is:

"Though it is still a tentative name, we have included 3D in the new Kingdom Hearts game title. It also includes "3", which implies that this may be the third iteration of Kingdom Hearts.

http://www.khinsider.com/news/Nintendo-Conference-Nomura-Talks-KH3D-2583

Hope that satisfies you because it didnt for me. *sigh*

I was going to correct a few statements you made which Nomura likes to change his mind on, but I'll let it go since I only wanted to mention 1 thing, which I did.

 


I think you guys are complicating things. 3D is a prelude to KH3. In terms of gameplay - freeflow and story, setting up the events. Do you need to play it to enjoy KH3? Probably not. It doesnt advance the plot massively(though its not like coded or days who are side stories), but has good moments, some answers and presents the setting for the sequal. 

I would say its about as relevant as BBS, maybe a bit less, but it adds to the main story. Its not a side story.


Hey, I only go by what Tetsuya Nomura says, nothing more. He's described the importance of his games, which I just use to make a point. KH3D's story is on par with the numbered titles(I list them in my original comment), and the rest is a repeat on the differences. lol



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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Rob5VGC said:


Even if the story is weak, KH3D is an main game(Not a numbered title like BBS, which is KH0, KH1, and 2), as stated by Tetsuya Nomura. It's KH3 Part 1, and the "3" in 3D references KH3 because it leads into it. It was made very quickly and doesnt move the plot enough to be considered an numbered title.

It also references the platform and the name (Dream Drop Distance). In fact, its very heavily parallels COM:

COM takes place in b/w 1 and 2 | DDD takes place in b/w 2 and 3

COM and DDD are on Nintendo Portables

COM and DDD have Sora and RIku as main characters

COM and DDD take place out of the normal realm of light, COM is in Castle Oblivion -> Realm of In between, DDD is realm of dreams

COM and DDD use experimental battle systems, COM used card system, DDD uses an improved deck system, deck system originates from BBS but is the evolution of the card system.

DDD sets up KH3 the same way, COM did for KH2 (Introducing the Organization 13)

The actual reason DDD is not numbered is because its not Sora's story, yes things happen to Sora, but like COM, its not plot related and serves as build up for KH3 (Specifically, Sora and Riku's Mark of Mastery Exam, and why they are the way they are in the beginning of KH3, (spoiler alert, look at the clothes sora wears in the KH3 recent gameplay trailer as well as his keyblade), and How Xenahort is starting up his plan) <- both things already mentioned at the end of KH2.

I say the plot is weak as a concession, I personally didn't mind that nothing really happened, and what happened to Sora nad Riku was pretty engaging.

At the same time, this is what happens when you mix Inception AND time travel.

I wouldn't call DDD a spinoff either.
A spinoff game is fundamentally different in some way, mainly in gameplay and/or story.
The gameplay of DDD is very recognizable. Combat system is familiar. There's traveling between different worlds. And the main plot centers around Xehanort. The game appeals to the same people who are or would be attracted to the other KH games.
Xehanort's plan wasn't mentioned at the end of KH2 btw, as far as I know. You may be thinking of Coded. But even there the only thing mentioned was that Master Xehanort will return. Nothing about what his plan entails, iirc.  And learning how things came to be the way they are can be just as important as plot progression, although there is some of that in KH 3D as well. For example, the concept of the 13 vs 7, Xehanort's plan is unveiled, the mark of mastery exam begins (and is compleated by one person), and Axel "returning from the dead" and learned how to weild a keyblade.

And you can find common connections between DDD and the numerical games as well.
But there are two things I want to point out on your list.
Riku being a main character is not something indicative of a spinoff, whether it happened in COM or not. He has been one of the main protagonists since the beginning.
As for the battle system of DDD, the deck system stopped being experimental after COM. In BBS it was very refined. DDD's battle system has something from KH2 as well, namely the Link System. Which derived from the Dive Form system. And Kingdom Hearts 3 has the wall diving from DDD. It's not uncommon for Nomura to mix systems from different games, add new systems, or change old ones, to various degrees.

Regarding numbering games in a series, one factor that can play in is marketing. If a sequel ends up on a different platform, or in a new market, the numbering the game may change, or be removed all together, if they think that will appeal to more people. It doesn't always happen, but it has happened many times. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, which ended up on the PSP, might as well have been labeled MG5, but it wasn't. And many felt that Final Fantasy 11 should have been called Final Fantasy Online, but Square no doubt chose that name for marketing purposes even though the focus of the game is vastly different from the numerical series. And Shadow Hearts !! was renamed to Shadow Hearts: Covenant in the west, because they didn't feel like the series was recognizable enough in the west, and the number 2 might put people off from playing it if they hadn't played Shadow Hearts (1) first.
So this is something to consider as well when it comes to the naming of Dream Drop Distance, as well as Birth By Sleep.



Hiku said:

I wouldn't call DDD a spinoff either.
A spinoff game is fundamentally different in some way, mainly in gameplay and/or story.
The gameplay of DDD is very recognizable. Combat system is familiar.

spinoff is a crappy term, these are side stories aka non-numbered series. Familiarity is irrelevant, the core system - the command system - is that of BBS - and has never been in a Numbered series, thus it is experimental, Toriyama is trying out new things and perfecting the command system. Story wise it makes sense to, Aqua, Ventus, and Terra where Master Level, so the concept of an MP bar didn't make sense for them. 

* taking the mark of mastery, Sora and Riku now use commands cause they are that skilled now, essentially they have infinite MP.

* The only thing Riku and Sora can't do yet is transform their keyblades...

There's traveling between different worlds. And the main plot centers around Xehanort. The game appeals to the same people who are or would be attracted to the other KH games.

All KH games do this {I don't know about coded or 358/2} . BBS also focuses on Xenahort, Specifically how he gets his plan started. 
Xehanort's plan wasn't mentioned at the end of KH2 btw, as far as I know. You may be thinking of Coded. But even there the only thing mentioned was that Master Xehanort will return. Nothing about what his plan entails, iirc.  And learning how things came to be the way they are can be just as important as plot progression, although there is some of that in KH 3D as well. For example, the concept of the 13 vs 7 is introduced, Xehanort's plan is unveiled, the mark of mastery exam begins (and is compleated by one person), and Axel "returning from the dead" and learned how to weild a keyblade.

In KH 2 FM they reveal that Xenahort is coming back, and that they have to take the mark of mastery

And you can find common connections between DDD and the numerical games as well.

That's true for all KH games, BBS, COM, and DDD are the most closely related.
But there are two things I want to point out on your list.
Riku being a main character is not something indicative of a spinoff, whether it happened in COM or not. He has been one of the main protagonists since the beginning.

Alone it is not, but Riku is the main character of DDS, and I didn't say because you play Riku its a Spinoff, just that its a parallel that ties it to COM and in some ways BBS, more than the numbered series.
As for the battle system of DDD, the deck system stopped being experimental after COM. In BBS it was very refined. DDD's battle system has something from KH2 as well, namely the Link System. Which derived from the Dive Form system. And Kingdom Hearts 3 has the wall diving from DDD. It's not uncommon for Nomura to mix systems from different games, add new systems, or change old ones, to various degrees.

The Deck system command system and the card system are distinct from each other.  They work entirely differently. In fact, DDS has the card system as a minigame for dream eaters and its clear they are different there. The command system features the general combat of the numbered series, but turns skills and magic into commands that each reload on their own, this is in contrast to cards which are required for every action aside from movement. The Link system is a combination of BBS D-Links and Command Styles. In fact, Riku actually has some of Aqua's Command Styles namely Ghost Drive, and Sora has Ventus such as Salvation. Unlike Drives, Links are invoked by command usage, exactly like command styles. Drives are explicitly activated.

* story wise Drive's are fusions like Links, but Links are fusions that require no item, hence they can be learned at any time, unlike the Drives which require the Earrings, in fact, Drives are entirely tied to story, Final Form and Antiform are the only exceptions. 


Regarding numbering games in a series, one factor that can play in is marketing. If a sequel ends up on a different platform, or in a new market, the numbering the game may change, or be removed all together, if they think that will appeal to more people. It doesn't always happen, but it has happened many times. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, which ended up on the PSP, might as well have been labeled MG5, but it wasn't. And many felt that Final Fantasy 11 should have been called Final Fantasy Online, but Square no doubt chose that name for marketing purposes even though the focus of the game is vastly different from the numerical series. And Shadow Hearts !! was renamed to Shadow Hearts: Covenant in the west, because they didn't feel like the series was recognizable enough in the west, and the number 2 might put people off from playing it if they hadn't played Shadow Hearts (1) first.

So this is something to consider as well when it comes to the naming of Dream Drop Distance, as well as Birth By Sleep.

No, it really is not, Square Enix and Testuya Nomura are very specific about their naming conventions regarding Kingdom Hearts, that's why they tend to be ridiculous and confusing. Dream Drop Distance is the exploration of the realm of dreams. Like COM it concerns an area that won't be covered in the next game, for COM it was Castle Oblivion. Also the Chain of Memories that tied Sora to his Friends, which was broken by Namine, so that Xemnas could create Xion from those Memories. Xion is a data clone like Dark Riku in COM.

And the term spinoff is not really applicable, because they are all relevant to the main story so side story is more applicable. However, Like COM and BBS and 358/2, DDD covers only one event, unlike the numbered series which cover an entire story arc.  

KH spin offs - are not spinoffs in the conventional sense, it makes no sense to compare them to other spinoffs. Every KH game is tied directly to the main story, not based off of it as in the case of most spinoffs. Its a really disengenous term, they just aren't numbered, since they do not progress the story so to speak.

All this is what I mean when I say DDD is KH2's COM



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