Forums - Politics Discussion - Trumpís Lead Grows After Debate, Controversy

the_dengle said:
Samus Aran said:

Eh, we can include Bachelor's (although they're quite useless in my country) if you want. Not sure what you mean with associate's, not familiar with that term.

An Associate's is a 2-year degree. Like half a Bachelor's, so twice as useless.


My father only had that and he ended up making over 100k a year as a supervisor in a power plant. So not entirely useless. He could have went back to college at one point to study mechanical engineering (his work would have paid for some of it), but he declined because it didn't make sense financially at the time.



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sc94597 said:
Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
 

So there are no jobs in between Walmart and having a Master's Degree? I know a plethora of people who make significant amounts with just an associate's or a bachelor's, and would not get a masters because they don't have the time nor can they afford to lose money for what would be a marginal to no pay difference.

Eh, we can include Bachelor's (although they're quite useless in my country) if you want. Not sure what you mean with associate's, not familiar with that term.


Associate's is a two year degree people get from junior or community colleges. Many types of nurses have associates degrees and great jobs that pay well (albeit they can go higher and get paid more.) The top 30 or so jobs that require an associates pay a median salary of $50,000. Since people with associate's don't have a lot of loan debt, if any, they tend to have higher standards of living than people with bachelors or even higher. In most of the U.S $50,000 gives you a very comfortable standards of living, especially if your spouse makes just as much.

 

Furthermore, I know many people without degrees who are well educated voters. This includes a close friend of mine who is a painting contractor who makes $30,000/yr. Having started his own business, and been successful for 30 years, I think he deserves and has earned a right to vote on how other people affect his wellbeing and his business. Europeans have historically tried to eliminate social classes as well as economic classes, but from what I hear on the internet you guys are still behind Americans in the social class sphere of things. Plumbers, physicists, businessmen, medics, doctors, cashiers, and lawyers are quite frequently best friends, despite having huge income disparities in the U.S. Nobody is looked down upon for not pursuing formal educations. Trades aren't looked down upon as for the peasantry. And people who don't have degrees aren't viewed as less human and deserving of rights than others. Despite your pride in your welfare schemes and forced equality, it makes sense in your societies of stratified elites that you need such things. One can blame feudalism and its lasting effects, I guess.

Erm, that's not true at all. On social matters the US is about 50 years behind of Europe. You still get frowned upon in the US if you rely upon the help of unions. US is a lot more individualistic than Europe is. Social healthcare, insurances and unemployment support is leaps and bounds better in Europe than in the US.



Samus Aran said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Samus Aran said:
What more proof do you need that only people with a Master degree at university should be allowed to vote?


Yes, because people who make comments like this should be the only ones allowed to vote.... 

In my country we're forced to vote, but I always leave the options open so my vote doesn't count. ;)

In my country most people without education vote for extremist right wing parties. So yeah, I wouldn't mind some restrictions for being allowed to vote. :)


Then the better option would be not to force people to vote. Let those that really know what they are voting for and that care go vote. That's how it's worked here until Obama when everyone went out and voted. Saying someone can't vote because they're not educated enough is wrong. A degree doesn't in anyway make a person smarter than another that lacks the papper saying so. 



JWeinCom said:
the_dengle said:
Samus Aran said:

Eh, we can include Bachelor's (although they're quite useless in my country) if you want. Not sure what you mean with associate's, not familiar with that term.

An Associate's is a 2-year degree. Like half a Bachelor's, so twice as useless.


A bachelors degree is very useful!  It helped me be the most educated person working at Best Buy :-/


Well not all bachelor degrees are considered equal, and people are much more than their degrees to prospective employers. I doubt anyone would hire an arts major with no job experience for a high paying job. Now compare that to a computer science drop out I know who was just fought over by two companies and ended up with a $30,000 raise on top of his $60,000 salary. Supply and demand, and marginalist value theory are true in the job market more than any other.



teamsilent13 said:

My father only had that and he ended up making over 100k a year as a supervisor in a power plant. So not entirely useless. He could have went back to college at one point to study mechanical engineering (his work would have paid for some of it), but he declined because it didn't make sense financially at the time.

Granted, someone will make use of what they've got. People can have success without even graduating high school. But an Associate's will do little for the average American.



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Mmmfishtacos said:
Samus Aran said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Samus Aran said:
What more proof do you need that only people with a Master degree at university should be allowed to vote?


Yes, because people who make comments like this should be the only ones allowed to vote.... 

In my country we're forced to vote, but I always leave the options open so my vote doesn't count. ;)

In my country most people without education vote for extremist right wing parties. So yeah, I wouldn't mind some restrictions for being allowed to vote. :)


Then the better option would be not to force people to vote. Let those that really know what they are voting for and that care go vote. That's how it's worked here until Obama when everyone went out and voted. Saying someone can't vote because they're not educated enough is wrong. A degree doesn't in anyway make a person smarter than another that lacks the papper saying so. 

You'll find that generally speaking it does, anecdotal evidence not withstanding (exceptions that prove the rule).

I agree with you, I wish I wasn't forced to get up so early to vote. :D



Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
 

So there are no jobs in between Walmart and having a Master's Degree? I know a plethora of people who make significant amounts with just an associate's or a bachelor's, and would not get a masters because they don't have the time nor can they afford to lose money for what would be a marginal to no pay difference.

Eh, we can include Bachelor's (although they're quite useless in my country) if you want. Not sure what you mean with associate's, not familiar with that term.


Associate's is a two year degree people get from junior or community colleges. Many types of nurses have associates degrees and great jobs that pay well (albeit they can go higher and get paid more.) The top 30 or so jobs that require an associates pay a median salary of $50,000. Since people with associate's don't have a lot of loan debt, if any, they tend to have higher standards of living than people with bachelors or even higher. In most of the U.S $50,000 gives you a very comfortable standards of living, especially if your spouse makes just as much.

 

Furthermore, I know many people without degrees who are well educated voters. This includes a close friend of mine who is a painting contractor who makes $30,000/yr. Having started his own business, and been successful for 30 years, I think he deserves and has earned a right to vote on how other people affect his wellbeing and his business. Europeans have historically tried to eliminate social classes as well as economic classes, but from what I hear on the internet you guys are still behind Americans in the social class sphere of things. Plumbers, physicists, businessmen, medics, doctors, cashiers, and lawyers are quite frequently best friends, despite having huge income disparities in the U.S. Nobody is looked down upon for not pursuing formal educations. Trades aren't looked down upon as for the peasantry. And people who don't have degrees aren't viewed as less human and deserving of rights than others. Despite your pride in your welfare schemes and forced equality, it makes sense in your societies of stratified elites that you need such things. One can blame feudalism and its lasting effects, I guess.

Erm, that's not true at all. On social matters the US is about 50 years behind of Europe. You still get frowned upon in the US if you rely upon the help of unions. US is a lot more individualistic than Europe is. Social healthcare, insurances and unemployment support is leaps and bounds better in Europe than in the US.

Yet you believe that people without degrees are less than people with degrees and should not vote. Quite socially egalitarian there.



the_dengle said:
teamsilent13 said:

My father only had that and he ended up making over 100k a year as a supervisor in a power plant. So not entirely useless. He could have went back to college at one point to study mechanical engineering (his work would have paid for some of it), but he declined because it didn't make sense financially at the time.

Granted, someone will make use of what they've got. People can have success without even graduating high school. But an Associate's will do little for the average American.


Tell that to people in the nursing and IT fields.



sc94597 said:

Yet you believe that people without degrees are less than people with degrees and should not vote. Quite socially egalitarian there.

In my country pretty much everyone has the opportunity to study. So if people don't use that opportunity then that is their fault.



Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
 

Yet you believe that people without degrees are less than people with degrees and should not vote. Quite socially egalitarian there.

In my country pretty much everyone has the opportunity to study. So if people don't use that opportunity then that is their fault.


I don't even....