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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump’s Lead Grows After Debate, Controversy

Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
 

Yet you believe that people without degrees are less than people with degrees and should not vote. Quite socially egalitarian there.

In my country pretty much everyone has the opportunity to study. So if people don't use that opportunity then that is their fault.

 

Is study the be all, end all for all people though? What if somebody wants to become a skilled laborer (electrician, plumber, specialised painter, carpenter, etc) or want to start their own business? Not everybody needs or wants higher education, and it isn't the only way to make a good living.

We're not talking about making a good living though, we're talking about who should decide who is in power.

I know people who never went to college and made more money than my first job (though I had a lot more options to get promotion). I respect anyone regardless of their education, but I firmly believe voting should be a privilege and not a right.

The issue is that voting affects everyone. Additionally people without said degrees succeed because of qualities that would also make them a good voter, but you disqualify them because they don't have a degree. I don't see how I - somebody who will end up with a PHD in physics when all is said and done, and two bachelor's (one in physics, the other in economics) am any more qualified in voting a politician who will decide a policy that affects - say an Uber driver - than said Uber driver, for example. All people have the right to vote on things which will affect them, if they are going to be forced to partake in said system. As the saying goes, "no taxation without representation." This was one of the cornerstones of the transition from elitist based monarchies to egalitarian (relatively) republics. Voting restrictions or mandates, impair this progress.



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Leadified said:
JWeinCom said:
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm pulling for Sanders so far. Sanders is a hard sell being a self proclaimed socialist. Kudos for the honesty, but that's a tough sell. I'm not sure he could win against someone like Jeb Bush who is moderate enough to pull some votes from democratic parties. Sanders would need to run against a more polarizing figure to have a real chance.


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.

The phrase he uses is democratic socialist.  So that was a bit of inaccuracy on my part.  

In truth, a lot of other politicians would fit this label, but the word socialist still carries a lot of baggage.



sc94597 said:

The issue is that voting affects everyone. Additionally people without said degrees succeed because of qualities that would also make them a good voter, but you disqualify them because they don't have a degree. I don't see how I - somebody who will end up with a PHD in physics when all is said and done, and two bachelor's (one in physics, the other in economics) am any more qualified in voting a politician who will decide a policy that affects - say an Uber driver - than said Uber driver, for example. All people have the right to vote on things which will affect them, if they are going to be forced to partake in said system. As the saying goes, "no taxation without representation." This was one of the cornerstones of the transition from elitist based monarchies to egalitarian (relatively) republics. Voting restrictions or mandates, impair this progress.

I edited my post to say my idea couldn't be implemented in the US because of certain problems.

Everybody has the right to vote, just as everyone should have the opportunity to study! A degree isn't something that's given to you, you need to earn it first.

But in the US this would indeed lead to problems as black people (for example) earn less money than white people on average and thus have less opportunity to go to college (i.e. they would be unfairly underrepresented).



Leadified said:
JWeinCom said:
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm pulling for Sanders so far. Sanders is a hard sell being a self proclaimed socialist. Kudos for the honesty, but that's a tough sell. I'm not sure he could win against someone like Jeb Bush who is moderate enough to pull some votes from democratic parties. Sanders would need to run against a more polarizing figure to have a real chance.


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.


He actually is a democratic socialist. They believe in the incremental transition to socialism through democracy. Social Democracy is just one step to socialism for Bernie. Europe already took that step, while the U.S has been doing it more slowly because it has a warfare state to maintain which eats up its welfare state. But I am sure Sanders would be right with socialists if the U.S currently was as socially democratic as Europe.



sc94597 said:
Leadified said:


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.


He actually is a democratic socialist. They believe in thee incremental transition to socialism through democracy. Social Democracy is just one step to socialism for Bernie. Europe already took that step, while the U.S has been doing it more slowly because it has a warfare state to maintain which eats up its welfare state. But I am sure Sanders would be right with socialists if the U.S currently was as socially democratic as Europe.

Bernie Sanders is one of the better candidates, but he's just so old.



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sc94597 said:
Leadified said:


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.


He actually is a democratic socialist. They believe in the incremental transition to socialism through democracy. Social Democracy is just one step to socialism for Bernie. Europe already took that step, while the U.S has been doing it more slowly because it has a warfare state to maintain which eats up its welfare state. But I am sure Sanders would be right with socialists if the U.S currently was as socially democratic as Europe.

That's possible although I think a hypothetical President Sanders would have a hard time taking that step (same difference if he were an anarcho-communist or whatever really). Credit for being open about it at least, he wouldn't be ousted by the media for being a secret socialist or something.



Leadified said:
sc94597 said:
Leadified said:


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.


He actually is a democratic socialist. They believe in the incremental transition to socialism through democracy. Social Democracy is just one step to socialism for Bernie. Europe already took that step, while the U.S has been doing it more slowly because it has a warfare state to maintain which eats up its welfare state. But I am sure Sanders would be right with socialists if the U.S currently was as socially democratic as Europe.

That's possible although I think a hypothetical President Sanders would have a hard time taking that step (same difference if he were an anarcho-communist or whatever really). Credit for being open about it at least, he wouldn't be ousted by the media for being a secret socialist or something.

I like that he is honest about his beliefs (even though I strongly disagree with his economic positions) and find his positions on the military and civil liberties to be decent, but not as strong as some other political persons. 

If you want an example of the far-left in the U.S I'd look at Noam Chomsky and his syndicalist perspetive. Syndicalism has always been more prevelant in the U.S among the left-wing (than say - Communism or state-socialism.) Mostly because it has been prominently anti-authoritarian (a key feature for any American political ideology: left or right.) 



The poll has a rather small sample size so the exact figures are meaningless; however, all of the polls have stated that Trump is the leading candidate.

Megyn Kelly got what she deserved and the polls continue to show that despite what Trump says, his numbers keep going up.



Samus Aran said:
sc94597 said:
Leadified said:


What an odd appeal to the American left. I am not an American but I briefed myself on his policies and to me he seems more like a bizarre social democrat, nothing special in any case. A bit of a stretch for him to claim he is a socialist but who am I to stop him. I think these labels have lost their meanings and are now just buzzwords to appeal to certain voterbases.


He actually is a democratic socialist. They believe in thee incremental transition to socialism through democracy. Social Democracy is just one step to socialism for Bernie. Europe already took that step, while the U.S has been doing it more slowly because it has a warfare state to maintain which eats up its welfare state. But I am sure Sanders would be right with socialists if the U.S currently was as socially democratic as Europe.

Bernie Sanders is one of the better candidates, but he's just so old.


Eh... he's 4 years older than trump.  6 years older than Hilary.  So he's not that much older than the democratic and republican frontrunners ATM.  To me, the age issue will only be significant if he pulls a McCain and has a scary stupid running mate, which I don't see happening.



Gore said there is too much Bush on TV

Bush said there is too much Gore on TV