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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft’s Phil Spencer Admits the Kinect Isn’t Really That Useful For Core Games

LurkerJ said:
JayWood2010 said:

 

Your stance makes no sense.


Majority of Core does not and did not like motion controls.  Casuals did.  Casuals are gone, core stayed hence core were turned off by it.  




       

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Mummelmann said:
LurkerJ said:

That is not the subject at hand.....

Jay is suggesting that Nintendo's image was hurt by motion controls and the Wii, the same way X1 was hurt by kinect...


And I believe they were, after the fact. Mandatory Kinect was always a bad idea and I said as much from the very beginning, I also said that MS would be forced to back out of this decision if they wanted any level of decent sales. I believe they were a little too late though.

Both Nintendo and MS' image has been hurt in the eyes of the core console demographics, which is of course problematic. However; it is unlikely at any rate that this audience is big enough for three companies to make great amounts of money off of them.

Nintendo's image was hurt by their most successful home console to date? 

If their image is hurt by the eyes of the gamers , why is the 3DS a sucesss? Software and hardware wise. 

Core gamers are a bunch if idiots if the Wii the actually offended them. 



I don't know of anyone who ever believed and/or wanted it to become commonplace in core games. Just like with the Wii, I think we all knew when you mixed motion controls with core games the results were usually half assed inclusions, or terrible gameplay wise.

What the motion controls are good for, the Xbone is sorely lacking. I have enjoyed my Xbone much more than my PS4 or WiiU, but there is one complaint and it's that the Kinect games are non-existent and the ones we do have are, imho, God awful. Rivals had a couple somewhat entertaining games but mostly it was a bore. I can't even think of another game based on Kinect that wasn't extremely bad.

I still love using it for system navigation, in-game commands, and auto log in, but I wish they'd bring some games designed around it. I wonder if that game GAF was buzzing about with five players where 4 control escaping players and the Kinect user controls some monster chasing them is still in development?



JayWood2010 said:
LurkerJ said:

Your stance makes no sense.


Majority of Core does not and did not like motion controls.  Casuals did.  Casuals are gone, core stayed hence core were turned off by it.  

Did the Wii appeal to casuals? sure. Did the Wii appeal to core gamers? sure, it was supported by critically acclaimed games for years. I dunno why this would offend the core, unless they are idiots. 

Did Kinect appeal to casuals? sure, did Kinect appeal to core gamers? nope. So what did MS do? Mandatory bundling and no real software support.

You can't just make a dry baseless statement and stand by it. 



LurkerJ said:
JayWood2010 said:

 


Im not going to debate this any further, but the core games that were successful on the Wii has always been successful on Nintendo platforms, even on the WiiU.  Other words those games would have been successful with or without the WiiMote. What really accelled on the Wii was the misc genre though.  




       

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LudicrousSpeed said:
I don't know of anyone who ever believed and/or wanted it to become commonplace in core games. Just like with the Wii, I think we all knew when you mixed motion controls with core games the results were usually half assed inclusions, or terrible gameplay wise.

What the motion controls are good for, the Xbone is sorely lacking. I have enjoyed my Xbone much more than my PS4 or WiiU, but there is one complaint and it's that the Kinect games are non-existent and the ones we do have are, imho, God awful. Rivals had a couple somewhat entertaining games but mostly it was a bore. I can't even think of another game based on Kinect that wasn't extremely bad.

I still love using it for system navigation, in-game commands, and auto log in, but I wish they'd bring some games designed around it. I wonder if that game GAF was buzzing about with five players where 4 control escaping players and the Kinect user controls some monster chasing them is still in development?

Saying there wasn't enough good core games with motion controls on the Wii  undermines the efforts Nintendo put into their console, at least in its early years. Not all games work with motion controls but some do and Nintendo did their best pumping out such games. Were there too many dancing games on both the Wii and Kinect ? sure, but Nintendo did their part and tried to make games for the core, and they succeeded with many of those games.



LurkerJ said:

Nintendo's image was hurt by their most successful home console to date? 

If their image is hurt by the eyes of the gamers , why is the 3DS a sucesss? Software and hardware wise. 

Core gamers are a bunch if idiots if the Wii the actually offended them. 


3DS is not a home console, and it is set to sell about half or less of the DS' lifetime numbers; that's what I call taking a hit. Not to mention the Wii U vs Wii.

It's not that core gamers are idiots; it has more to do with consumers steering away from products that do not cater to them, that's what demographics are all about and that's why it is important to have proper aim with products. It's no great mystery why core gamers did not enjoy the Wii and why they have opted to stay away from the Wii U as an extension of this.

If Nintendo's image was not hurt by the Wii in the core consoles market; why is is that the handheld sales are halved and the home console sales are cut by about 80% or more? Getting instant gratification at the cost of long-term credibility and market presence was a choice they willingly made and it had very predictable consequences.

This isn't about being "offended"; it is about preferences and product aim and demographics. Don't make it personal.

 

Edit; I see that this user was banned (was writing and then walked away for about 15 minutes), although I can't see why as the user is set to private. Might make this reply meaningless.



I will always remember Kinect as the device that slaved Rare and killed Lucas Arts.



LurkerJ said:
Mummelmann said:


And I believe they were, after the fact. Mandatory Kinect was always a bad idea and I said as much from the very beginning, I also said that MS would be forced to back out of this decision if they wanted any level of decent sales. I believe they were a little too late though.

Both Nintendo and MS' image has been hurt in the eyes of the core console demographics, which is of course problematic. However; it is unlikely at any rate that this audience is big enough for three companies to make great amounts of money off of them.

Nintendo's image was hurt by their most successful home console to date? 

If their image is hurt by the eyes of the gamers , why is the 3DS a sucesss? Software and hardware wise. 

Core gamers are a bunch if idiots if the Wii the actually offended them. 


The handhelds have always been where Nintendos core fanbase have primarily existed. Where third party and Nintendo can at least co-exist.



Mummelmann said:
LurkerJ said:

Nintendo's image was hurt by their most successful home console to date? 

If their image is hurt by the eyes of the gamers , why is the 3DS a sucesss? Software and hardware wise. 

Core gamers are a bunch if idiots if the Wii the actually offended them. 


3DS is not a home console, and it is set to sell about half or less of the DS' lifetime numbers; that's what I call taking a hit. Not to mention the Wii U vs Wii.

The handheld market isn't the same anymore. Smartphones changed the game for good, and it will be even worse for nintendo if they fail to adapt. Smartphones hit Nintendo hard. (not the Wii...)

It's not that core gamers are idiots; it has more to do with consumers steering away from products that do not cater to them, that's what demographics are all about and that's why it is important to have proper aim with products. It's no great mystery why core gamers did not enjoy the Wii and why they have opted to stay away from the Wii U as an extension of this.

Core gamers enjoyed the Wii, critics and gamers alike loved Nintendo's software offerings on the Wii in its early years (before Nintendo dropped the support..). If you didn't enjoy anything on the Wii, that's fine. But a lot of CORE gamers did. Critics are on my side.

If Nintendo's image was not hurt by the Wii in the core consoles market; why is is that the handheld sales are halved and the home console sales are cut by about 80% or more? Getting instant gratification at the cost of long-term credibility and market presence was a choice they willingly made and it had very predictable consequences.

I already explained why the 3DS isn't doing as great as the DS. It's pretty obvious to everyone how smartphones changed the game. I'd also add that Nintendo opted to include a gimmick that hooked no one and drove up the costs of what should've been a much cheaper device, and even if they didn't, the handheld market picture wouldn't have changed much. Smartphones are here to stay and dominate.

3DS software is doing great though, where esle do you see an sRPG game selling 2 million copies?  and that was my point in bringing up the 3DS.

Now for the Wii U... are we seriously gonna ignore everything that is wrong with the Wii U and blame its failure on the Wii? The Wii U is overpriced garbage. I have never held back so long buying a Nintendo console like I am doing now. I won't buy it until it gets much cheaper. The Wii U failure was predictable the moment we saw it. Not because the Wii hurt nintendo's image.

 This isn't about being "offended"; it is about preferences and product aim and demographics. Don't make it personal.

 

Edit; I see that this user was banned (was writing and then walked away for about 15 minutes), although I can't see why as the user is set to private. Might make this reply meaningless.

It's fine. I was banned for using the word "idiots". I post on multiple forums and this is the only one that is strictly moderated. I don't tend to troll but I don't watch "my language" either.

Anyway. We drifted away from my original point. Which was this:

Nintendo did a good job of integrating their motion controls into their hardcore games via LoZ and Mario Galaxy in a way MS never accomplished with Kinect.