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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Spindoctor Aaron Greenberg: "Reporting Can Get Confusing, But We Did Sell 3.9"

bucky1965 said:
ioi said:
FlamingWeazel said:

I think the confusion is from what it seemed like greenbergs intent was, when pressed on the sold/shipped, he never even atttempted to clarify on if it was consumer or retailers, knowing many simply don't undersatnd, but yes from a SOLD point of view you are right, it's all the same for MS.

** Slaps forehead **

It is like talking to a brick wall.

"ACTUALLY the correct term is SOLD". So in response to someone saying "3.9 SHIPPED not SOLD" he clarifies by saying actually the correct term is sold. Not that 3.9m represents sell-through. Not that 3.9m units are in consumers hands. But that the term that has been used in financial reports of "sold" is the correct term for what that number represents which is how many units Microsoft has sold - all of which is correct.

He didn't say "actually, we did sell 3.9m to consumers" or "no, that number of 3.9m does represent sold to consumers so you are wrong in saying it is shipped" or anything else - all he said was that the word SOLD is correct in relation to the figure of 3.9m as presented in MS financial reports - he never said the word SOLD before this point so it is clear that the discussion is about the wording of the financial report.

Are you guys actually reading the words he wrote or just making up your own version of what you want to think that he meant?

People are trying to read between the lines.

And they interpret those invisible lines the way that suits their agenda.




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DonFerrari said:
I think this is a case of two rights depending on angle of vision.

As ioi said the guy never said sold at the beggining, so we could accept that he was just meaning "shipped" without ill intentions or trying to drive people to that confusion.

But I stand by the point that people who read it isn't aware of what it could mean so it should have been better worded. And the guy who challenged him have done it unpolitelly so he is wrong as well.

And I still think he should have said in his clarification that the correct term is sold and that it means "shipped" or any other explanation he seems more fit. And in the end it won't make much of a difference anyway, most of his followers on twitter are MS fans that would be delighted knowing it was a record without knowing Sony numbers or their mean, so it was a harmless spin (I'll hold on that).

Exactly, not sure why ioi got so agressive about this and kept coming after me (There are way worss offenses on this site as we speak), it was never about shipped not being the same as sold, rather what seemed like an attempt to make it sound like it was sold to consumer to people who simply wouldn't know there is a difference.

When he was specifically asked  about it he refused to clarify. On twitter where 99% of people simply see Sold as sold to consumer. He was asked if it was sold to retailer specificially he didn't answer but side stepped. Either way it's foolish at this point to keep this conversation going, we all here know what it means.



FlamingWeazel said:
DonFerrari said:
I think this is a case of two rights depending on angle of vision.

As ioi said the guy never said sold at the beggining, so we could accept that he was just meaning "shipped" without ill intentions or trying to drive people to that confusion.

But I stand by the point that people who read it isn't aware of what it could mean so it should have been better worded. And the guy who challenged him have done it unpolitelly so he is wrong as well.

And I still think he should have said in his clarification that the correct term is sold and that it means "shipped" or any other explanation he seems more fit. And in the end it won't make much of a difference anyway, most of his followers on twitter are MS fans that would be delighted knowing it was a record without knowing Sony numbers or their mean, so it was a harmless spin (I'll hold on that).

Exactly, not sure why ioi got so agressive about this and kept coming after me (There are way worss offenses on this site as we speak), it was never about shipped not being the same as sold, rather what seemed like an attempt to make it sound like it was sold to consumer to people who simply wouldn't know there is a difference.

When he was specifically asked  about it he refused to clarify. On twitter where 99% of people simply see Sold as sold to consumer. He was asked if it was sold to retailer specificially he didn't answer but side stepped. Either way it's foolish at this point to keep this conversation going, we all here know what it means.

Bye... meet you in another thread another time... will leave this unless something interesting shows up.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

ioi said:
Somini said:

I'm beginning to think that you're not so neutral yourself. I always see you lashing out at Sony fans and now you say you're keep a list of them? I never see you go into a deep discussion with someone like Kowenicki.

I'm beginning to understand why NeoGaf is banning anyone who mentions this site!!


I've had run-ins with Kowenicki, Seece and many others in the past.

The people on my list are people that are causing trouble - it isn't my fault that they happen to mostly be Sony fans at this moment in time.

I'd suggest you all calm down a little, think a bit more about what you are saying and post in a reasonable and respectful manner.

It isn't that hard.

It's seems hard enough for you,

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5981906

If you can't follow your own rules how can you expect others to?



                                
ioi said:
2008ProchargedGT said:

I do understand what you are say yes the did sell that many I get it but you and I know the diff between sold through and sold he's using the term sold because most ppl see that as sold to customer. He could have as easily said yes we sold 3.9 to retail but he chose not to. That IMao is misleading

But he never used the word SOLD in the first place - Microsoft did in their financial report which is the correct word for them to use in that case.

I don't understand how you feel that Greenberg is trying to pretend that the 3.9m figure represents sold to consumers when he never said anything of the sort. All he was doing was clarifying that the word SOLD, as used in the financial report, is the correct word.

If Greenberg had said in an original Tweet "I'm so glad that we have sold 3.9m Xbox Ones in 2013" then maybe you'd have a point about being misleading even though I still think you'd be stretching it. But he never brought up the word sold, OTHER THAN to clarify (in reply to a Tweet about the word sold and that it should be shipped) that it is in fact the right word to use in this situation.

I honestly dont care one way or another the only reason i have been replying is to defend my right to have an opinion. Im not trying to put words in his mouth or strech this to fill an agenda.Its ok if i dont see this in the same light as you im not trying to downplay your opinion either. One thing i do know is niether you nor I are in his head and can difinativly say what his intentions were. I apologize if iv'e upset you or anyone else on this forum.  But again my opinion is he intentionally left out the explination of sold and sold to retail for obvious reasons, im sorry if you dont not agree but hey you are entitled to.



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room414 said:
ioi said:
Somini said:

I'm beginning to think that you're not so neutral yourself. I always see you lashing out at Sony fans and now you say you're keep a list of them? I never see you go into a deep discussion with someone like Kowenicki.

I'm beginning to understand why NeoGaf is banning anyone who mentions this site!!


I've had run-ins with Kowenicki, Seece and many others in the past.

The people on my list are people that are causing trouble - it isn't my fault that they happen to mostly be Sony fans at this moment in time.

I'd suggest you all calm down a little, think a bit more about what you are saying and post in a reasonable and respectful manner.

It isn't that hard.

It's seems hard enough for you,

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5981906

If you can't follow your own rules how can you expect others to?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=176844&page=1#



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

selnor1983 said:
Sorry I have to say this site is at its worst point. Its lowest. Ive never in 7 years seen posters blatantly twist things, and then gang attack the site owner. Ioi always got respect through the years. And hes 100% right here. That twitter poster waded in and challenge something that didnt need challenging. That poster had an alterior motive from the start. Aaron simply said thanks to a congrats on their report figure which is always sold to retail for god knows how long.

Seriously? To many posters have taken over this site in his absence. Ive been no saint. But I know for a fact im changing and being more rational. Thinking about my posts. And ive never gone to the lengths in this thread.


Ahahahaha.



drkohler said:
ioi said:

I am a dicatator, this is my site. It isn't a democracy. I set the rules.

Greenberg said that "sold is the correct terminology" WHICH IT IS. That is a FACT. Microsoft SOLD 3.9m units to their customers - Gamestop, Walmart and so on.

Fortunately you don't set logic, and in this case, it is incorrect if you parse what MS PR  representative David Dennis wrote (he compresses a lot of different facts into two sentences - Twitter be thanked- so it is understandable that he slipped at some point):

"We sold through nearly every unit we could in the holiday period and pulled forward as many units as we could from Q3. However, only some of those shipments were sold into the channel in the final period of the quarter and so there was not time to sell the units through to customers,"

His first sentence is flat out wrong since you cannot do accounting with future products in a financial report. What he actually wanted to say is that units made in December were delivered in December on the fast path (flying in units as I suspect Sony also did as well). It usually takes 3-5 weeks to ship from Shanghai to wherever, so most units made in December would regularly arrive sometimes in January, the new quarter.

In his second sentence, he plainly admits that not all December units were actually sold by quarter's end:  "only some of those shipments were sold into the channel in the final period of the quarter".  This means that of the roughly 900k units in transit, some were sold to customers, some not (yet).

Not that it matters - in the end the unsold units probably were sold by January 3rd...(still fun to correct the dictator and not get shot instantly, though).

I'm not sure how that corrects anything I said? You seem to be making a different point to the one I was making!

As of December 31st 2013, Microsoft will have had orders for 3.9m units of Xbox One from retailers so they sold 3.9m units as of that date. 3m of those were in the hand of consumers and the other 900k were in transit or sitting in stores. Either way, Microsoft had sold 3.9m units as of December 31st which is what they have reported.

And listen, you can correct me all day long if I am wrong (and maybe I am and I'm missing something here?) - nobody is going to get shot for making a valid and well-reasoned point about something.



2008ProchargedGT said:
ioi said:
2008ProchargedGT said:

I do understand what you are say yes the did sell that many I get it but you and I know the diff between sold through and sold he's using the term sold because most ppl see that as sold to customer. He could have as easily said yes we sold 3.9 to retail but he chose not to. That IMao is misleading

But he never used the word SOLD in the first place - Microsoft did in their financial report which is the correct word for them to use in that case.

I don't understand how you feel that Greenberg is trying to pretend that the 3.9m figure represents sold to consumers when he never said anything of the sort. All he was doing was clarifying that the word SOLD, as used in the financial report, is the correct word.

If Greenberg had said in an original Tweet "I'm so glad that we have sold 3.9m Xbox Ones in 2013" then maybe you'd have a point about being misleading even though I still think you'd be stretching it. But he never brought up the word sold, OTHER THAN to clarify (in reply to a Tweet about the word sold and that it should be shipped) that it is in fact the right word to use in this situation.

I honestly dont care one way or another the only reason i have been replying is to defend my right to have an opinion. Im not trying to put words in his mouth or strech this to fill an agenda.Its ok if i dont see this in the same light as you im not trying to downplay your opinion either. One thing i do know is niether you nor I are in his head and can difinativly say what his intentions were. I apologize if iv'e upset you or anyone else on this forum.  But again my opinion is he intentionally left out the explination of sold and sold to retail for obvious reasons, im sorry if you dont not agree but hey you are entitled to.

Exactly you said it better then I could lol, there was no need for the hostility from the site owner imo, it was a valid opinion. Anyway, I am really done this time with this thread :).



Hynad said:
bucky1965 said:
ioi said:
FlamingWeazel said:

I think the confusion is from what it seemed like greenbergs intent was, when pressed on the sold/shipped, he never even atttempted to clarify on if it was consumer or retailers, knowing many simply don't undersatnd, but yes from a SOLD point of view you are right, it's all the same for MS.

** Slaps forehead **

It is like talking to a brick wall.

"ACTUALLY the correct term is SOLD". So in response to someone saying "3.9 SHIPPED not SOLD" he clarifies by saying actually the correct term is sold. Not that 3.9m represents sell-through. Not that 3.9m units are in consumers hands. But that the term that has been used in financial reports of "sold" is the correct term for what that number represents which is how many units Microsoft has sold - all of which is correct.

He didn't say "actually, we did sell 3.9m to consumers" or "no, that number of 3.9m does represent sold to consumers so you are wrong in saying it is shipped" or anything else - all he said was that the word SOLD is correct in relation to the figure of 3.9m as presented in MS financial reports - he never said the word SOLD before this point so it is clear that the discussion is about the wording of the financial report.

Are you guys actually reading the words he wrote or just making up your own version of what you want to think that he meant?

People are trying to read between the lines.

And they interpret those invisible lines the way that suits their agenda.



True.