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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's unrealistic pricing for old-school platformers et al.

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happydolphin said:
amp316 said:
I don't feel ripped off paying full price for New Super Mario Bros U. Have you played it? The game is awesome and some of the challenges are borderline impossible. I could see putting many hours into that game.

Sadly I don't own the U yet.

Wyrdness said:
Do you not know how to read Dolphin try again, the was no comparison to 3D Mario Nintendo thought 3D Mario was going to replace 2D and they were wrong that's why no 2D Mario was made until NSMB not because of any decline.

Please don't insult, it's not necessary. You mentioned that they thought 3D Mario was the way to go and sales of 2D and 3D Mario compared say it wasn't, but I was telling you why using NSMB sales is not a fair measure due to pent up demand.

Spazzy_D said:

I'm at work and don't have time to compile all the SF numbers becuase of all the platforms and versions of the games, but I'll do it later unless someone beats me to it.  A Series isn't in decline if it sells more versions then the pervious instlallment, it just means one game in the series (SMB) is an outlier, since The Lost Levels < SMB2 < SMB3 < SMW.  You also have to take the userbase into consideration when looking at those numbers.

You're analogies are all really weak.  You compared over pricing NSMB games to over pricing the PS3.  The PS3 actually had a lot of value for the price (Blue Ray player) but still sold horribley.  In addition it wasn't the stigma of the price that hurt it as much as the price itslef.

It would be better to compare it to the 3DS launch.  Still a stretch, but the similiarity is that both could afford the price cut.  If it doesn't cost much for Nintendo to make the game, and it doesn't sell, they can drop the price and people will start buying it.  Like the 3DS.

Anyway, I have to work.

Ok, all the best at work and I'll be here when you get the info. I'll try to get it myself too.

 

No I will call you out if you try to sidestep with an irrelevant comment don't like it then too bad the basic politician side stepping doesn't refrain from the point, you're mentioning sales because you're pre-emptively trying to dig yourself out of a hole with the decline comment because it proves you wrong full stop. Nintendo never made a 2D Mario because of the expectations that 3D would fully replace it but realized the experience was not the same and it's own unique branch of the series not because of decline like you claim, the fact that you're now trying to down play sales when I haven't even mentioned them is even more amusing because you've realize the flaw in your comment and have improvised some rubbish argument about pent up demand when all it is is that Nintendo misjudged the situation and 3D Mario cators to a different group entirely then the 2D serie's userbase.



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happydolphin said:
TruckOSaurus said:
While you're allowed to have your opinion. It is based on very flawed logic.

- You compare console gaming sales to mobile gaming sales when they're two very different beast.
- You bring in things in the argument that have little to no relevance on the subject (like League of Legends' appeal)
- You make a false correlation between a product's value and the development cost of that product.
- Your proposed price points would lower Nintendo's revenue not increase it.

1) They each communicate something, and that information is what I'm using to build my opinion. I'm not sure who decided that the two couldn't be compared...

I'll start with this point and see if you're really interested in an honest argument.

- Consoles are bought mainly by people who want a device dedicate to playing video games.
- Smart phones are bought by people who want a cell phone, who want to check their emails on the go, who want to browse the Internet on the go, who need a PDA and people who want to play some games too.

Do you agree that smart phones have a heck of a lot more potential customers? If not, then I give up.

Moving on to the games.

- Mobile games are simple, quick, fun for a few minutes. They're the kind of games you pull out while you're waiting for someone, while you're on the can, they're something you play when you've got time to kill and they are priced accordingly. Angry Birds isn't worth more than $1 (and most people just go for the free version).
- Console games are more challenging, have infinetely better gameplay and you can actually sit down and play them for hours straight. They offer more content and better entertainment and of course they are more expensive because they're worth it.

So Angry Birds reaching 250 million downloads (across 5 different games) can't be compared to NSMBW's 26.61 million sales in raw numbers because they live in two very different worlds.



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amp316 said:

See, that's the thing.  You don't own a Wii U yet and I'm telling you from experience that New Super Mario Bros U is worth every penny.  It's actually one of the top 2D Mario games ever made and the challenges will give a hardcore gamer an enormous amount of additional hours for their buy.

I can imagine. That's where I fall short here, I've never actually played it but I did admit along the thread that U had more detail than the ones before it, so I was open to this idea. I'm glad you brought it up, the U's value in contrast with the ones before it. Someone earlier mentioned integration with miiverse but I'm not sure how convincing that was.

TruckOSaurus said:

I'll start with this point and see if you're really interested in an honest argument.

A1- Consoles are bought mainly by people who want a device dedicate to playing video games.
A2- Smart phones are bought by people who want a cell phone, who want to check their emails on the go, who want to browse the Internet on the go, who need a PDA and people who want to play some games too.

Do you agree that smart phones have a heck of a lot more potential customers? If not, then I give up.

Moving on to the games.

1- Mobile games are simple, quick, fun for a few minutes. They're the kind of games you pull out while you're waiting for someone, while you're on the can, they're something you play when you've got time to kill and they are priced accordingly. Angry Birds isn't worth more than $1 (and most people just go for the free version).
2- Console games are more challenging, have infinetely better gameplay and you can actually sit down and play them for hours straight. They offer more content and better entertainment and of course they are more expensive because they're worth it.

So Angry Birds reaching 250 million downloads (across 5 different games) can't be compared to NSMBW's 26.61 million sales in raw numbers because they live in two very different worlds.

@bold. I don't think I need to prove that to you, sir. You should know that I am by this point in the thread, 6 pages in answering each and every reply sent to me. I am a soul in search of answers, you should have sensed that by now.

A1- I know. I said as much.

A2-I know I said as much.

@Qtn. Yes I do, and I've said as much. And that's why I said Nintendo was capped unless it was able to think outside the box.

1- I realize that, that's why they are so viral. That's why Nintendo's retro offerings struggle to compete with them.

2- I think challenging is a bit pretentious. There are a lot of mobile games I've never beat because they are actually difficult. Infinitely better gameplay is your taste, I respect it, but imho it is untrue. There are games out there at a low price that compete gameplay wise, I don't need to bring up examples, they are loved by many.

Playing them for hours straight, that is true, but like I said in today's day and age people in the greater market are no longer interested in that.

@Point. They are targetting a different market that, on the long term, will decrease over time, while it's already quite small relatively speaking (26m vs 250m). The main market that bought NSMB is also the market that bought Angry Birds, that's why they can be compared. I'm saying that, over time, that 26m figure will decrease due to that simple observation.



Give me one example of a mobile game that has better or equal gameplay to NSMBW.



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TruckOSaurus said:
Give me one example of a mobile game that has better or equal gameplay to NSMBW.

Plants vs Zombies? Equal gameplay? What kind of metrics are you looking for in gameplay? Controls, physics?

Trine seemed to have reasonable gameplay. I can't say it's equal but it's certainly comparable. Mind you that's a steam/XBLA game.

The controls issue is being worked on in the market, there are ways to connect a dualshock to tablets and smartphones, it will become a reality where mobile games can easily be played with more traditional forms of input.



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happydolphin said:
TruckOSaurus said:
Give me one example of a mobile game that has better or equal gameplay to NSMBW.

Plants vs Zombies? Equal gameplay? What kind of metrics are you looking for in gameplay? Controls, physics?

Trine seemed to have reasonable gameplay. I can't say it's equal but it's certainly comparable. Mind you that's a steam/XBLA game.

I'm talking quick, responsive controls that the touch interface isn't able to reproduce.



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TruckOSaurus said:

I'm talking quick, responsive controls that the touch interface isn't able to reproduce.

I won't deny that controls are an issue. That's just a pure constraint, it's a fact. But in my edit I mentioned that that is being overcome in the market.

Controls are just one side of gameplay. Also, if we stick to mobile phones I am constrained by controls, but that is no longer an issue if we consider steam and other arcade/dd platforms.



happydolphin said:

USA

Europe

Let's go back to the sales data, because that's the heart of the issue. Explain how these graphs prove that there is a problem with the pricing of the NSMB games.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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happydolphin said:

TruckOSaurus said:

I'm talking quick, responsive controls that the touch interface isn't able to reproduce.

I won't deny that controls are an issue. That's just a pure constraint, it's a fact. But in my edit I mentioned that that is being overcome in the market.

Controls are just one side of gameplay. Also, if we stick to mobile phones I am constrained by controls, but that is no longer an issue if we consider steam and other arcade/dd platforms.

You asked me why I consider Console gaming and Mobile gaming vastly different markets and that's what I did. Steam is PC gaming which is closer to console gaming.



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It's not appauling at all. These games sell quite well at that price and they have a lot of effort put into them. These aren't little downloadable games. Donkey Kong Country returns is worth more money in terms of the amount of fun it requires than 98% of AAA multiplats.