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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Breath of the Wild Arrives in 2022, Zelda Game & Watch This December

 

How do you want Nintendo to celebrate 35 years of Zelda?

Breath of the Wild 2 16 40.00%
 
Skyward Sword HD (you're in luck!) 5 12.50%
 
A full-fledged remake of an older game 5 12.50%
 
Ocarina + Majora remaster collection 2 5.00%
 
Wind Waker HD + Twilight ... 4 10.00%
 
Zelda-themed Switch console 0 0%
 
A brand new 2D Zelda 4 10.00%
 
Paper Zelda 2 5.00%
 
Other 2 5.00%
 
Total:40
curl-6 said:

Title for the new game: The Legend of Zelda: Hand of Time.

HoloDust said:

From my POI, and my view of Zelda (exploration + puzzles + "lock and key" design paradigm), pendulum swung too much in opposite direction with BotW compared to Aonuma Zeldas. Change was more that needed, it's just, again for me, there was too many of the wrong ones.

Ultimately, there is a balance between exploration, puzzles and story, it's just that Zelda in its latest incarnation is probably as far away from that balance as it's predeccessors were, just in different aspects - it's just happen that current (still active) fad is all about open worlds. Maybe, eventually, pendulum will come to rest at the midpoint.

Personally I'm quite happy with where the pendulum came to rest with BOTW. All I'd really like to change for the successor is more enemy variety and themed dungeons, other than that I'm more than happy for BOTW's design to remain the new series blueprint in the way Ocarina was the blueprint for Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword.

Oh, I can see lots of people being happy with how it ended up - won't go into personal preferences, especially with open world games (since properly DM-ed P&P hexcrawl/pointcrawl RPGs are only thing I'm actually completely satisfied when it comes to those), but for me BotW lost lot of what was good in previous Zelda games and added lot of pointless padding instead.

Someday, just perhaps, they might get it right, preferably looking something like this as well:



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Runa216 said:

Skyward sword had a lot of good ideas (A linear zelda is fine, the combat system is great in theory, and the emphasis on character and story are both things I wanna see in Zelda), but they were all done poorly. The writing was bad, the combat system was fundamentally broken and never seemed to work for me, and the linearity was absolutely obliterated by Fi, the single most annoying sidekick in the history of gaming. Not only was Fi's personality and behaviour annoying as hell, it removed ALL aspects of the game's sense of adventure.

I genuinely don't see how anyone likes the game.

I disagree with literally everything you said except that Fi is annoying, but I never found her that annoying. The writing is great and the combat for me was fantastic. You just need to gently move the Wii mote out of the wrist, not much movement is needed. Some people make big movements and it gets inaccurate because of that.

Also there are many other aspects that people like about the game, like the dungeons and bosses.



Runa216 said:
Link_Nines.XBC said:

I will never get the people who think "how can others like something I don't" , a game you dislike can have virtues that other people value a lot, you know?

IT's not about 'not liking what I don't like', it's about the game fundamentally breaking itself to become what it is. It's about failing to do the things it sets out to do. It's about the game not succeeding at its most critical points. 

I hate Grand Theft Auto V and I don't personally see the appeal of most MOBAs and MMOs and online shooters and realistic racing sims, but I totally get why people like them. I see the appeal, I see the quality, I know they're great for what they are and I try my best to not get involved because it's not my area of interest/expertise. But with stuff like Skyward Sword (And Dark Souls II and Final Fantasy XIII and a handful of others), they ARE in my wheel house, I DO know and understand a lot about what makes them tick, and I have a semi-professional take on the matter that makes it clear these games fundamentally failed. 

Y'all need to stop disregarding proper assessment and critique as 'just, like, your opinion, man'. So many people misconstrue subjective opinions with objective reality. You can't just ignore a game's flaws and pretend like people identifying these flaws is the same as being a hater or some immature nonsense. It's not very conducive to a proper discussion in any way. 

The game's controls - the most important element of the game's ability to...be played - are fundamentally flawed for an entirely too-large percentage of people. They didn't work as intended. The puzzles didn't register as intended. some people had no problems with them or could work around the problems but a lot of people hate the game because the controls were fundamentally broken and flawed and didn't work. this isn't a matter of opinion, this is an instance where a game's core mechanic is inconsistent and that ruins the experience for far too many people. If it didn't break for you, good for you, it broke for me and I played the game for 20+ hours. Every single combat encounter and every single puzzle was a chore of random chance, luck, and frustration. 

Zelda is an adventure game. that is its genre. the core concept behind the franchise's appeal is the idea that you're exploring a world and gradually opening it up as you get new items and new abilities. Fi ruins all that. "There's a 94% chance that you should go this direction and do this". That's not an adventure, that's a zelda game that may have well been on rails. I'm all for making games accessible, and anyone with a heart and brain should agree that allowing these options is important, but there's a world of difference between offering an option and halting the game every 30 seconds to force a dialogue explanation that tells you what you already figured out before you go do it. It's overly intrusive conveyance and completely counterintuitive to what the game is trying to do. 

As for the writing and dialogue, I liked what they were trying to do but it was pretty bland, generic, and poorly written. Bad writing can still be fun and appealing (Hell, my most popular short stories are almost always the ones I put the least amount of thought into the dialogue), but you can't pretend it's not bad. 

All in all, you need to stop conflating subjective opinions with objective reality. That's exactly why we still have anti-vaxxers and flat earthers who think their opinions are as valid as the science they oppose. 

The people for whom the controls didn't work either had a broken Wii mote, didn't have the sensor bar placed ideally or fundamentally did something wrong. Because if you control it the way the tutorial tells you it works. It nearly always worked for me.



curl-6 said:

Title for the new game: The Legend of Zelda: Hand of Time.

HoloDust said:

From my POI, and my view of Zelda (exploration + puzzles + "lock and key" design paradigm), pendulum swung too much in opposite direction with BotW compared to Aonuma Zeldas. Change was more that needed, it's just, again for me, there was too many of the wrong ones.

Ultimately, there is a balance between exploration, puzzles and story, it's just that Zelda in its latest incarnation is probably as far away from that balance as it's predeccessors were, just in different aspects - it's just happen that current (still active) fad is all about open worlds. Maybe, eventually, pendulum will come to rest at the midpoint.

Personally I'm quite happy with where the pendulum came to rest with BOTW. All I'd really like to change for the successor is more enemy variety and themed dungeons, other than that I'm more than happy for BOTW's design to remain the new series blueprint in the way Ocarina was the blueprint for Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword.

I'm similarly happy with Breath of the Wild, and its focus on open-ended, emergent gameplay. Heck, it's the best game I've played. At the same time, I do love the structured action-adventure blueprint from the 1992-2013 years, and hope that doesn't disappear. Maybe the tradition can carry on with new 2D installments?



Veknoid_Outcast said:
curl-6 said:

Title for the new game: The Legend of Zelda: Hand of Time.

Personally I'm quite happy with where the pendulum came to rest with BOTW. All I'd really like to change for the successor is more enemy variety and themed dungeons, other than that I'm more than happy for BOTW's design to remain the new series blueprint in the way Ocarina was the blueprint for Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword.

I'm similarly happy with Breath of the Wild, and its focus on open-ended, emergent gameplay. Heck, it's the best game I've played. At the same time, I do love the structured action-adventure blueprint from the 1992-2013 years, and hope that doesn't disappear. Maybe the tradition can carry on with new 2D installments?

I'd say there can be both in the same Zelda design - emergent gameplay is nothing new, it's been around since Ultima VI in video games, nothing preventing them to make 3D Zelda that has both immersive sim design philosophy with the old "lock and key" (or bomb and stone/hook and ledge/...) design.

They just need to be clever about it and make gated open world - solve the "gates" (whatever they are, physical or otherwise), however you can, then go on into new areas. There's plenty of games that use that concept, including some of 2D Zeldas.



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Kakadu18 said:

The people for whom the controls didn't work either had a broken Wii mote, didn't have the sensor bar placed ideally or fundamentally did something wrong. Because if you control it the way the tutorial tells you it works. It nearly always worked for me.

I want to believe you and agree with you, but I tried it with every modification you can imagine. I tried it with the official black wiimote+ controllers, I tried it with the white wiimotes with the Motion+ attachment, I tried it with and without the sleeve, I tried it with the sensor bar on top of the TV and with it below the TV, I tried it on multiple TVs, I tried it standing and sitting down, and I made sure to consult Nintendo and online FAQs to figure out what/if I was doing something wrong. 

At best, I got 5 minutes of play before I had to recalibrate. (Also, Wii Motion+ aren't supposed to use the IR sensor bar, that was sort of the point, was it not?)

Point is, I did my due diligence. I put in the time and I played that game for 20+ hours and in that entire time I was lucky if I could get 5 minutes out of the wiimote without having to recalibrate. Obviously others did not have this problem but it's incredibly unfair to assume I was just doing it wrong or something when I spent hours troubleshooting the issue, consulted with Nintendo tech support, and consulted multiple online FAQs to figure out what may have been going wrong. We tried everything and nothing worked. 

I'm glad it worked for you. Had it worked for me I may have a wholly different opinion of the game (Bad dialogue and Fi are not game-enders for me.) I absolutely love the series, and I cite A Link to the Past, Breath of the Wild, The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Minish Cap among my all-time favourite games. I'm not biased against the game and the things it did (motion controls, linear progression, more indepth story elements) were things I liked in theory, it just so happened to be that I felt it failed its three major deviations from the formula or the things it was trying to do to set it apart. Clearly I am the minority, but just like FFXIII and Dark Souls II, there's a reason these games are outliers within their franchises and have the most contention within the community. My stances are not unfounded, nor are they without precedent. You can't just dismiss my take because the controls worked for you. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

Veknoid_Outcast said:
curl-6 said:

Title for the new game: The Legend of Zelda: Hand of Time.

Personally I'm quite happy with where the pendulum came to rest with BOTW. All I'd really like to change for the successor is more enemy variety and themed dungeons, other than that I'm more than happy for BOTW's design to remain the new series blueprint in the way Ocarina was the blueprint for Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword.

I'm similarly happy with Breath of the Wild, and its focus on open-ended, emergent gameplay. Heck, it's the best game I've played. At the same time, I do love the structured action-adventure blueprint from the 1992-2013 years, and hope that doesn't disappear. Maybe the tradition can carry on with new 2D installments?

For me it's the #3 best game I've played, behind only RE4 and Super Mario Galaxy. I doubt the old blueprint is gone forever, and it's certainly possible the 2D branch of the series will be where it lives on. Future 3D entries may even try to blend the two templates to please fans of both.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

I think Nintendo should release Breath 2 for Wii U, even if it runs like crap. The thing deserves it, it sacrificed the only true Zelda game to its name for the success of the Switch.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Metallox said:

I think Nintendo should release Breath 2 for Wii U, even if it runs like crap. The thing deserves it, it sacrificed the only true Zelda game to its name for the success of the Switch.

There's no point in doing that. The tiny number of consoles that Wii U sold are almost all long since packed away in a basement/attic/cupboard and replaced by a Switch, so not enough people would buy the Wii U version for it to be worth developing. Plus the game would be better off if it's not held back by the Wii U's capabilities.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 25 June 2021

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Metallox said:

I think Nintendo should release Breath 2 for Wii U, even if it runs like crap. The thing deserves it, it sacrificed the only true Zelda game to its name for the success of the Switch.

You are a very kind Wii U owner. Too kind. Much too kind for such a poorly performing console!

Wii U does NOT deserve Breath of the Wild 2. It didn’t deserve ANY Nintendo games. Breath of the Wild was far too much of a treat. It was spoiling an ungrateful console.

Remember, if you raise your kids right, you can spoil your grandkids.

If you spoil your kids, you will be raising your grandkids.

That same old wisdom applies to video game consoles.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.