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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Breath of the Wild Arrives in 2022, Zelda Game & Watch This December

 

How do you want Nintendo to celebrate 35 years of Zelda?

Breath of the Wild 2 19 44.19%
 
Skyward Sword HD (you're in luck!) 5 11.63%
 
A full-fledged remake of an older game 5 11.63%
 
Ocarina + Majora remaster collection 2 4.65%
 
Wind Waker HD + Twilight ... 4 9.30%
 
Zelda-themed Switch console 0 0%
 
A brand new 2D Zelda 4 9.30%
 
Paper Zelda 2 4.65%
 
Other 2 4.65%
 
Total:43

The amount of vitriol Skyward Sword gets is just too much (just read the thread linked below) , the game has its flaws but it still is a good experience with some of the highest highs in the series, yet people talk as if it was the worst thing since Sonic 06. 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-is-doing-a-poor-job-selling-me-on-skyward-sword-hd.445490/page-8

The first answer being "I mean it is Skyward Sword, that's enough to turn people off"



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Like it or not SS is right now the most key game in the series which only the original LOZ can maybe make a case for because it's the game that not only signaled change in the series approach but influenced both ALBW and BOTW in numerous ways.



Wyrdness said:

Like it or not SS is right now the most key game in the series which only the original LOZ can maybe make a case for because it's the game that not only signaled change in the series approach but influenced both ALBW and BOTW in numerous ways.

I really like Skyward Sword but I'm not so sure about this. Skyward Sword is kind of an evolutionary dead end for the series. Breath of the Wild succeeded on critical and commercial fronts in part because it's so different from SS. 

Again, I enjoy SS and believe strongly that Zelda can succeed with several different blueprints. I just don't see how SS is especially important or influential, apart from steering future Zelda development in the opposite direction.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Wyrdness said:

Like it or not SS is right now the most key game in the series which only the original LOZ can maybe make a case for because it's the game that not only signaled change in the series approach but influenced both ALBW and BOTW in numerous ways.

I really like Skyward Sword but I'm not so sure about this. Skyward Sword is kind of an evolutionary dead end for the series. Breath of the Wild succeeded on critical and commercial fronts in part because it's so different from SS. 

Again, I enjoy SS and believe strongly that Zelda can succeed with several different blueprints. I just don't see how SS is especially important or influential, apart from steering future Zelda development in the opposite direction.

BOTW only exists as it is now because of SS both the good and bad from it is what taught Aonuma (who has even says this link below) and the Zelda team what to do with their next approach in the former as SS was the first attempt to deviated from the ALTTP formula for instance the criticism of not being able to explore everything in SS is what lead to a more exploration focus for BOTW leading to an open world game, the criticism of being restricted is what brought up the issue of freedom which was prototyped in ALBW, the survival mechanics are lifted from SS and refined with the crafting, upgrading and gathering of materials from SS, stamina management and the sail cloth also transferred over, along with the ability to micro manage various temporary buffs via potions and accessories, the more in depth NPC interactions in SS is literally what BOTW uses for example a number of side quests in SS would trigger organically because the game tracks your interactions such as who you talk to how often like the storage lady side quest for reference and so on BOTW uses the same system on its NPCs.

SS wasn't an evolutionary dead end it was the beginning I don't think it's any coincidence that BOTW's sequel goes back to the sky here along with the similarities in how it is shown and Nintendo themselves pointing out features SS had that BOTW adopted the sequel is the game they intended SS to be with out the flaws.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/02/17/zelda-producer-on-how-skyward-sword-feedback-impacted-breath-of-the-wild



Yeah Skyward Sword does not deserve the hate it gets. It has some of the best dungeons, combat, storytelling, and overall level design in the series.

It has some issues, like the repeated Imprisoned fights, but it's still a great game, and in my opinion the 4th best game in the series behind only BOTW, Ocarina, and Twilight Princess.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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Lots of reviewers praised Skyward Sword at its original release for a lot of changes and improvements over previous 3D Zeldas that gave it more dynamism, a certain group of reviewers and users got into the bandwagon hate from the fact that mainly combat was based around motion controls, but lots of people have admitted that they barely scratched the surface of the game content, here where i live most people had already left the wii one or two years before the game was released and the promise of more accurate motion swordplay wasn't gonna be reason enough to go and rebuy a wii while the console was lacking in HD, online upcoming games, other areas and frankly it was already dying. If those people really played they would've noticed that sworplay isn't even most of what makes skyward sword unique with respect to previous Zeldas, Skyward Sword gave Link the ability to run and pseudo jump, to speedup his climbing, incorporated elements like upgrading of items, not by just collecting them like before, but by forging having you collect the materials and gaving them to the forger, same for potions , the story wasn't as static as Ocarina of time and others in the series where "the bad guy" is just wainting for you, it has lots of secondary missions to get better equipement and lots of those things were the basis for mechanics in BOTW. Like with other series if people get to know more this excellent Zelda game thanks to switch the better.

Last edited by foxmccloud64 - on 24 June 2021

Skyward sword had a lot of good ideas (A linear zelda is fine, the combat system is great in theory, and the emphasis on character and story are both things I wanna see in Zelda), but they were all done poorly. The writing was bad, the combat system was fundamentally broken and never seemed to work for me, and the linearity was absolutely obliterated by Fi, the single most annoying sidekick in the history of gaming. Not only was Fi's personality and behaviour annoying as hell, it removed ALL aspects of the game's sense of adventure.

I genuinely don't see how anyone likes the game.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

I will never get the people who think "how can others like something I don't" , a game you dislike can have virtues that other people value a lot, you know?

Last edited by Link_Nines.XBC - on 22 June 2021

Link_Nines.XBC said:

I will never get the people who think "how can others like something I don't" , a game you dislike can have virtues that other people value a lot, you know?

IT's not about 'not liking what I don't like', it's about the game fundamentally breaking itself to become what it is. It's about failing to do the things it sets out to do. It's about the game not succeeding at its most critical points. 

I hate Grand Theft Auto V and I don't personally see the appeal of most MOBAs and MMOs and online shooters and realistic racing sims, but I totally get why people like them. I see the appeal, I see the quality, I know they're great for what they are and I try my best to not get involved because it's not my area of interest/expertise. But with stuff like Skyward Sword (And Dark Souls II and Final Fantasy XIII and a handful of others), they ARE in my wheel house, I DO know and understand a lot about what makes them tick, and I have a semi-professional take on the matter that makes it clear these games fundamentally failed. 

Y'all need to stop disregarding proper assessment and critique as 'just, like, your opinion, man'. So many people misconstrue subjective opinions with objective reality. You can't just ignore a game's flaws and pretend like people identifying these flaws is the same as being a hater or some immature nonsense. It's not very conducive to a proper discussion in any way. 

The game's controls - the most important element of the game's ability to...be played - are fundamentally flawed for an entirely too-large percentage of people. They didn't work as intended. The puzzles didn't register as intended. some people had no problems with them or could work around the problems but a lot of people hate the game because the controls were fundamentally broken and flawed and didn't work. this isn't a matter of opinion, this is an instance where a game's core mechanic is inconsistent and that ruins the experience for far too many people. If it didn't break for you, good for you, it broke for me and I played the game for 20+ hours. Every single combat encounter and every single puzzle was a chore of random chance, luck, and frustration. 

Zelda is an adventure game. that is its genre. the core concept behind the franchise's appeal is the idea that you're exploring a world and gradually opening it up as you get new items and new abilities. Fi ruins all that. "There's a 94% chance that you should go this direction and do this". That's not an adventure, that's a zelda game that may have well been on rails. I'm all for making games accessible, and anyone with a heart and brain should agree that allowing these options is important, but there's a world of difference between offering an option and halting the game every 30 seconds to force a dialogue explanation that tells you what you already figured out before you go do it. It's overly intrusive conveyance and completely counterintuitive to what the game is trying to do. 

As for the writing and dialogue, I liked what they were trying to do but it was pretty bland, generic, and poorly written. Bad writing can still be fun and appealing (Hell, my most popular short stories are almost always the ones I put the least amount of thought into the dialogue), but you can't pretend it's not bad. 

All in all, you need to stop conflating subjective opinions with objective reality. That's exactly why we still have anti-vaxxers and flat earthers who think their opinions are as valid as the science they oppose. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

Runa216 said:
Link_Nines.XBC said:

I will never get the people who think "how can others like something I don't" , a game you dislike can have virtues that other people value a lot, you know?

IT's not about 'not liking what I don't like', it's about the game fundamentally breaking itself to become what it is. It's about failing to do the things it sets out to do. It's about the game not succeeding at its most critical points. 

I hate Grand Theft Auto V and I don't personally see the appeal of most MOBAs and MMOs and online shooters and realistic racing sims, but I totally get why people like them. I see the appeal, I see the quality, I know they're great for what they are and I try my best to not get involved because it's not my area of interest/expertise. But with stuff like Skyward Sword (And Dark Souls II and Final Fantasy XIII and a handful of others), they ARE in my wheel house, I DO know and understand a lot about what makes them tick, and I have a semi-professional take on the matter that makes it clear these games fundamentally failed. 

Y'all need to stop disregarding proper assessment and critique as 'just, like, your opinion, man'. So many people misconstrue subjective opinions with objective reality. You can't just ignore a game's flaws and pretend like people identifying these flaws is the same as being a hater or some immature nonsense. It's not very conducive to a proper discussion in any way. 

The game's controls - the most important element of the game's ability to...be played - are fundamentally flawed for an entirely too-large percentage of people. They didn't work as intended. The puzzles didn't register as intended. some people had no problems with them or could work around the problems but a lot of people hate the game because the controls were fundamentally broken and flawed and didn't work. this isn't a matter of opinion, this is an instance where a game's core mechanic is inconsistent and that ruins the experience for far too many people. If it didn't break for you, good for you, it broke for me and I played the game for 20+ hours. Every single combat encounter and every single puzzle was a chore of random chance, luck, and frustration. 

Zelda is an adventure game. that is its genre. the core concept behind the franchise's appeal is the idea that you're exploring a world and gradually opening it up as you get new items and new abilities. Fi ruins all that. "There's a 94% chance that you should go this direction and do this". That's not an adventure, that's a zelda game that may have well been on rails. I'm all for making games accessible, and anyone with a heart and brain should agree that allowing these options is important, but there's a world of difference between offering an option and halting the game every 30 seconds to force a dialogue explanation that tells you what you already figured out before you go do it. It's overly intrusive conveyance and completely counterintuitive to what the game is trying to do. 

As for the writing and dialogue, I liked what they were trying to do but it was pretty bland, generic, and poorly written. Bad writing can still be fun and appealing (Hell, my most popular short stories are almost always the ones I put the least amount of thought into the dialogue), but you can't pretend it's not bad. 

All in all, you need to stop conflating subjective opinions with objective reality. That's exactly why we still have anti-vaxxers and flat earthers who think their opinions are as valid as the science they oppose. 

Did I ever say that?

Games can have "objective" flaws but they won't afect everyone in the same way.

Last edited by Link_Nines.XBC - on 22 June 2021