By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo: next gen is about “improving gaming experience” “wonderful graphics won’t help”

I agree with Iwata-san. I wont deny though that graphics dont matter, but at the same time devs shouldnt be focus on the graphic race epic wants to build. Just how many devs have closed doors this last generation? Are we really trying to make a movie-kind of industry when we only have like 6 big movie studios and eveything else is considered independent? Games are not movies and they should never be, if devs are that interested in creating jaw-dropping graphics they are making a mistake looking at consoles, they should keep thier eyes on pcs only.



Menx64

3DS code: 1289-8222-7215

NNid: Menx064

Around the Network
Mr Khan said:
SaviorX said:
It is not only graphics but physics and animation and AI....rendering a certain numbers of NPCs on-screen.

The Wii U should be a decent bit stronger than the 360, so it should be capable of staying relevant for another 6 years like the 360, instead of maybe 3.25 years for the Wii. By January 1st, 2010, Wii was pretty much dead in terms of continued support. About 1 dozen games of good standing were released that year and that was that.

Despite all of this, I feel like in 2015, a large computational leap will have occurred, and the Wii U will be in the same situation Wii was...but it might still prove to be too expensive by then to matter. I cannot wait to see the GPad in action though this holiday and what Nintendo has to offer outside of launch.

Why do people keep shitting on 2010? Epic Mickey, Galaxy 2, yes, Other M, Sonic Colors, DKCR, Sin & Punishment 2, No More Heroes 2, damn Monster Hunter Tri, Kirby's Epic Yarn?

I  said a dozen games didn't I?

You forgot Tatsunoku vs Capcom lol



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

happydolphin said:

@Sal. That makes sense. The issue I had is that I was hearing companies talk about the great cost of HD development, and it was in the higher numbers (figures included but I don't have them on hand). So basically you're saying that these figures shouldn't be as important after the middleware engines took more ground and were built. However, doesn't that still pose a problem for the next gen that requires a new middleware for the newer capabilities? Also, what of the companies that weren't able to tap into the 3rd party engines, or build their own 1st party engines due to unmanageable upfront cost and risk for them?

I'm really not sure how much these engines cost to license, but as before - it's worked out for a ton of games this generation, and now with way more engines on the market their prices should be driven down for licensees. As for small companies, I remember reading that with UE3 at least the inital licensing cost is miniscule, just $100 or something, and they don't take a cut of your earnings until you reach a certain threshold. The rest is speculation on my part though, only time will tell. 



Nintendo has a point but it doesn't excuse their excessive cheapness to the point of absurdity.



Tease.

MDMAlliance said:
People who say pretty visuals add to the experience of a game, yet bash the 3DS for the "gimmick 3D" I would like to point out how ironic that is. Also, there's not much more you can improve on in terms of graphics like you could have between the PS2/Xbox generation to the PS3/360 generation as graphics have become much closer to things where it becomes harder for us to tell the difference. Power, on the other hand, is different. More power means more capabilities, and a lot of the time power and graphics go hand in hand, but that is eventually going to go away as graphics will become as good as we can perceive it. However, new ways of gaming is almost just as important as more power to a system, and bringing both is even better.

People saying that Iwata is just saying that for PR or whatever, I would think that anything anyone says in the company is PR. Sony bashing Nintendo's 3DS calling it a kid's console is PR talk. Seriously, I keep hearing the same things blathered about this over and over again.

Going to have to disagree with this, as a 3DS owner the 3d is nothing more than the 3DS' HD. DOes the 3d give the game a little more "oomph"?? Yes, at least some of them. but so does having 720 pixels. if i hook up my PS3 to a standard TV(which i have) the game will lose some detail from not having extra pixels, but lets be real, its still the same game and the game would still look better than most things released on last gen consoles or Wii.



Around the Network
SaviorX said:
Mr Khan said:
SaviorX said:
It is not only graphics but physics and animation and AI....rendering a certain numbers of NPCs on-screen.

The Wii U should be a decent bit stronger than the 360, so it should be capable of staying relevant for another 6 years like the 360, instead of maybe 3.25 years for the Wii. By January 1st, 2010, Wii was pretty much dead in terms of continued support. About 1 dozen games of good standing were released that year and that was that.

Despite all of this, I feel like in 2015, a large computational leap will have occurred, and the Wii U will be in the same situation Wii was...but it might still prove to be too expensive by then to matter. I cannot wait to see the GPad in action though this holiday and what Nintendo has to offer outside of launch.

Why do people keep shitting on 2010? Epic Mickey, Galaxy 2, yes, Other M, Sonic Colors, DKCR, Sin & Punishment 2, No More Heroes 2, damn Monster Hunter Tri, Kirby's Epic Yarn?

I  said a dozen games didn't I?

You forgot Tatsunoku vs Capcom lol

Right, but i'd say the clear cutoff is 2011. 2011 had what: Conduit 2, Return to Dreamland, and Zelda? Wii Play Motion, i guess...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Sal.Paradise said:
happydolphin said:

@Sal. That makes sense. The issue I had is that I was hearing companies talk about the great cost of HD development, and it was in the higher numbers (figures included but I don't have them on hand). So basically you're saying that these figures shouldn't be as important after the middleware engines took more ground and were built. However, doesn't that still pose a problem for the next gen that requires a new middleware for the newer capabilities? Also, what of the companies that weren't able to tap into the 3rd party engines, or build their own 1st party engines due to unmanageable upfront cost and risk for them?

I'm really not sure how much these engines cost to license, but as before - it's worked out for a ton of games this generation, and now with way more engines on the market their prices should be driven down for licensees. As for small companies, I remember reading that with UE3 at least the inital licensing cost is miniscule, just $100 or something, and they don't take a cut of your earnings until you reach a certain threshold. The rest is speculation on my part though, only time will tell. 

The only engine I know of being $100 is the Torque engine, and that come with restrictions. (You cannot have a game that sells over a certin number of copies) I guess there is a $100 version of it now that I looked it up but that is for a bare bones version of it, and this is for hobbist and indie developers. (Plus you need to give them 25% of your profit) The full version of UE3 are in the ball park of $350,000-to-$1.3million, depending on the target platform and the bell and whistles you want included. (Numbers from Devmaster.net)

 

And to weigh in on the graphic issue. There was an interesting article posted in one of the offical threads that even if there is a big leap in tech we may not notice because most developers are having trouble getting the increased budgets for the increases they are seeing. So we may be seeing fewer companies going for the uber graphics and just doing good enough and focusing on gameplay and just making sure the framerate is stable.



Thats fine and all but I also want a kick. I have spent way more time on my xbox 360 and even though I have put in time on my Wii. They need to include a achievement system. I know some say, who cares, well I do. I like to go back and run through all the sh-t I have done. It brings up more reasons to play games That I have not touched in a while. Like Dead Space 2, I went throught that game over and over because of this and I enjoyed it because it had a new reason everytime. You can play through games a few times and have fun but when you give it a new reason or view, it makes it more enjoyable. Atleast thats what I think. So they need to also add this to contend in the fun department.

 Also, what about there online? I understand they want to focus on the game but giving more to the customer only adds to the game. Now I will give them graphics can cut into the fun factor sometimes but I don't think this with this gen. I enjoyed more games on my 360. I also used the Wii for older games that I enjoyed in my childhood. The Wii's big success was from the casuals wanting to try the future of gaming. Most don't even touch it anymore. The next gen I don't think they will catch as many people.

So This I think is why they are shipping early, they know this. They need to cut in early to get the people sick of this gen, Me being one of them. I will buy in mainly just because I want something new to play with. The innovation is not my main focus, however HD Mario is. So don't tell me graphics don't play a part because they do. I do agree that there is going to be less and less going forward but lets not forget the causual market is not going to buy like they did in the past. I do think that hitting the market at the right time plays one of the biggest roles and people seem to forget that and nintendo has not.

So I think the market is fluid and has many different reasons to buy in.  Games, First party, Third party, shipping date, Innovation, price, graphics, controls, online, media etc... So to say it's just focusing on one thing or the other is not looking at the full story. Nintendo did the right choice by shipping early and this will be there success. They will win third party with this and will allow there system to be the in the lime light for some time.



Chark said:
MDMAlliance said:
People who say pretty visuals add to the experience of a game, yet bash the 3DS for the "gimmick 3D" I would like to point out how ironic that is. Also, there's not much more you can improve on in terms of graphics like you could have between the PS2/Xbox generation to the PS3/360 generation as graphics have become much closer to things where it becomes harder for us to tell the difference. Power, on the other hand, is different. More power means more capabilities, and a lot of the time power and graphics go hand in hand, but that is eventually going to go away as graphics will become as good as we can perceive it. However, new ways of gaming is almost just as important as more power to a system, and bringing both is even better.

People saying that Iwata is just saying that for PR or whatever, I would think that anything anyone says in the company is PR. Sony bashing Nintendo's 3DS calling it a kid's console is PR talk. Seriously, I keep hearing the same things blathered about this over and over again.

I'm not sure who you are referring to, since no one in this thread mentioned the 3DS's 3D or when you'd have a situation where people are talking about both at the same time. To start the stereoscopic 3D that the 3DS uses cuts the resolution in half, so really it is reducing the graphical fidelity of the games. Same goes to all stereoscopic 3D. The 3DS's 3D is cool, but it could have been better with a little more power behind the system to make up for the resolution drop and a larger screen to better display the 3D and increase the "sweet spot" size. 3DSXL is a defenite welcomed model. Anyway, to the point, I don't see the irony.

I think next gen graphics are going to suprise people because there isn't really that much to show people what those graphcis will be like. Well, aside from the various demos recently, but for some reason people seem to shrug it off like its not going to happen. If anything, those demos showcase the early less impressive graphical capabilities we will see next gen.


I'm referring to this because I know these people exist, here as well as many other places.   Your counter to my point is really missing the idea of what I was saying.  I wasn't talking about the 3DS specifically in terms of graphics but rather using it as an example where the same people I've seen bash something such as the 3D on the 3DS (as a concept since most people aren't even referring to the resolution of the system in the first place and this argument also becomes quite comparative when we delve into it deeper) talk all about how graphics provide the deeper experience and all.  

Let me put it in a way you'll understand exactly what I mean then.   HD 3D vs regular HD in gaming, the idea behind what I said is that people would call the HD 3D a gimmick, yet claim that the HD would  add to the game experience.  It's ironic because 3D effects are more or less in the same area as a boost in graphical quality in many respects.  The argument with better graphics are that you can now see things you couldn't see before with lower quality graphics, but the exact same principle applies to 3D.  

@oniyide

'Going to have to disagree with this, as a 3DS owner the 3d is nothing more than the 3DS' HD. DOes the 3d give the game a little more "oomph"?? Yes, at least some of them. but so does having 720 pixels. if i hook up my PS3 to a standard TV(which i have) the game will lose some detail from not having extra pixels, but lets be real, its still the same game and the game would still look better than most things released on last gen consoles or Wii.'

^--- The part you bolded was just to make a point.  I personally don't use the 3D very much, and I do not think a graphics update on a game adds much to a game.  It may be easier to look at, and seem neater and lets you immerse yourself easier, but the same can be said about 3D.  The 3DS' 3D is only one form of utilizing 3D, and it could be taken further when technology advances, and THIS is what I'm trying to say.  3D is a form of graphics improvement.



MDMAlliance said:
Chark said:
MDMAlliance said:
People who say pretty visuals add to the experience of a game, yet bash the 3DS for the "gimmick 3D" I would like to point out how ironic that is. Also, there's not much more you can improve on in terms of graphics like you could have between the PS2/Xbox generation to the PS3/360 generation as graphics have become much closer to things where it becomes harder for us to tell the difference. Power, on the other hand, is different. More power means more capabilities, and a lot of the time power and graphics go hand in hand, but that is eventually going to go away as graphics will become as good as we can perceive it. However, new ways of gaming is almost just as important as more power to a system, and bringing both is even better.

People saying that Iwata is just saying that for PR or whatever, I would think that anything anyone says in the company is PR. Sony bashing Nintendo's 3DS calling it a kid's console is PR talk. Seriously, I keep hearing the same things blathered about this over and over again.

I'm not sure who you are referring to, since no one in this thread mentioned the 3DS's 3D or when you'd have a situation where people are talking about both at the same time. To start the stereoscopic 3D that the 3DS uses cuts the resolution in half, so really it is reducing the graphical fidelity of the games. Same goes to all stereoscopic 3D. The 3DS's 3D is cool, but it could have been better with a little more power behind the system to make up for the resolution drop and a larger screen to better display the 3D and increase the "sweet spot" size. 3DSXL is a defenite welcomed model. Anyway, to the point, I don't see the irony.

I think next gen graphics are going to suprise people because there isn't really that much to show people what those graphcis will be like. Well, aside from the various demos recently, but for some reason people seem to shrug it off like its not going to happen. If anything, those demos showcase the early less impressive graphical capabilities we will see next gen.


I'm referring to this because I know these people exist, here as well as many other places.   Your counter to my point is really missing the idea of what I was saying.  I wasn't talking about the 3DS specifically in terms of graphics but rather using it as an example where the same people I've seen bash something such as the 3D on the 3DS (as a concept since most people aren't even referring to the resolution of the system in the first place and this argument also becomes quite comparative when we delve into it deeper) talk all about how graphics provide the deeper experience and all.  

Let me put it in a way you'll understand exactly what I mean then.   HD 3D vs regular HD in gaming, the idea behind what I said is that people would call the HD 3D a gimmick, yet claim that the HD would  add to the game experience.  It's ironic because 3D effects are more or less in the same area as a boost in graphical quality in many respects.  The argument with better graphics are that you can now see things you couldn't see before with lower quality graphics, but the exact same principle applies to 3D.  

@oniyide

'Going to have to disagree with this, as a 3DS owner the 3d is nothing more than the 3DS' HD. DOes the 3d give the game a little more "oomph"?? Yes, at least some of them. but so does having 720 pixels. if i hook up my PS3 to a standard TV(which i have) the game will lose some detail from not having extra pixels, but lets be real, its still the same game and the game would still look better than most things released on last gen consoles or Wii.'

^--- The part you bolded was just to make a point.  I personally don't use the 3D very much, and I do not think a graphics update on a game adds much to a game.  It may be easier to look at, and seem neater and lets you immerse yourself easier, but the same can be said about 3D.  The 3DS' 3D is only one form of utilizing 3D, and it could be taken further when technology advances, and THIS is what I'm trying to say.  3D is a form of graphics improvement.


i personally wouldnt call 3d a graphics improvment, as someone has said before, some games actually take a hit in resolution with the 3d on. THere are some games i would argue that make it look a bit worst, Nintendogs comes to mind.