I knew a lot of people with chipped PS1's too and I a few mates defo had the Crash games. I'm sure ND lost money to piracy in those days, no doubt. Most likely millions too, they were big selling games which likely means they were some of the most pirated too.

Doubt they were as hurt nowadays though, Ps2 piracy struck later and PS3 piracy is all but non-existant. Maybe that Jak PSP game got hurt a bit, if that money would have even gone to ND.

Sorry didn't see his list so I retract what I said about your link. But I stand by my opinion and I think it holds some weight. Each game would be a unique case for the reasons I said above. Crash being one of the more popular games would of had more people buying it pirated and also an higher percentage of the people buying it pirated would of bought it if piracy wasn't an option.

But anyway is there a study on piracy Would of/wouldn't of bought it ratio rate if piracy wasn't an option for games in general. Would genuinely like to see it.

Edit: I just read his links and 4M+ illeagal downloads for some games is huge. also consider that games retail for 4x as much than movies so 4x more of the profit lost. It also could be even more copies because 1 download can be burned onto numerous amount of disks.

 People don't pirate WoW because they can't. Simple as that. The roots of the MMO genre come from making a game designed around combating the rife amounts of piracy in the Asian market - thats why they made games that were based not on the users computer but a host server - simply so people couldn't pirate it. It makes your example laughable to be honest, because WoW is the prime example of what a game company has to do to successfully counter piracy - make it not possible. Which is what Rubin pretty much says in this article, and is exactly where gaming is headed... give it 10 years or so and people won't pirate games, not because they offer incredible value but because like every MMO - you'll be going from some sort of authetication server.

I don't know if you read the article but this doesn't come across as an 'excuse' or anything. It's just one of the most influencial people in console gaming talking about one of the big issues. Rubin is someone for whom anyone who calls themselves a gamer should have the upmost respect for and once again he's completely spot on with what he's saying. It's a shame the guys at the top of EA and Ubisoft don't have half as much of a clue as him.

 Tons of games with tons of intrinsic value get some of the highest pirating figures going - The Witcher, GTA, Final Fantasy's etc. The only truth with how much a game is pirated is how good it is - the better your game the more people pirate it. 

I'm tired of this fallacy. Piracy is bad, but each download is not a lost sale. Many if not most people who download have no intention of buying. Are rentals lost sales? Are borrowers lost sales? It's bullshit. Naughty Dog, and other devs, need to deal with the fact that not everyone thinks their games are God's gift to gamers. Many people think the Uncharted series is nothing more than an interactive movie. A movie they wouldn't pay to see in a theater for $10 let along buy for their PS3 for $60. Naughty Dog needs to get over themselves.

No, I don't realize that, could you please explain.

They're selling on PSN.

I was actually saying 300k total. 300k copies sold at $10 over the 10 years. Not 300k a year.

What's the % relationship between downloads to purchases you're working with?

Leave Naughtydog alone damn it! Piracy indeed takes from devs, but millions? I wonder.

 I  believe the Crash games are also now avaliable on all PS Suite compatible android phones and will slowly be making their way to the entire Android market. 

Been looking, it's a pain in the ass to find ANYTHING pirate related anymore though.  Lot easier to read the stuff in academic journals when it comes out.

In general though it's common sense.

I mean think about it.  

A) The cost of piracy is essentially zero.  So actually the more expensive the loss is essentially an inverse relationship.   As an example, a friend of mine gave almost everybody he knew a copy of Paintshop Pro.  A program that is thousands of dollars.

Nobody he gave it to had ANY intention of buying the professional grade program, and only got it because it was "A Cool updated paint".  

I mean, assume for a minute you decided "You know what, piracy is fine."   Woulda you download every game you had the slightest interest in, even stuff like say... the Ironman movie tie ins, if you liked Ironman, even though you KNOW it's gonna suck?  Or maybe a game like Haze or Lair or some other game that's knon for being epically bad?

Shit if I was a pirate, i'd pirate everything from Call of Duty to Barbie games, just to see how Barbie game mechanics work... and neither are games I'd ever buy.

B) A lot of pirates tend to hold MASSIVE libraries, of pirated everything, because why not?   If the average person owned 30 albums, the average pirate would usually own 35 albums then have an illegal library of like 300-400 Albums worth of music often with multiple copies of the same thing, just because.  Your average pirate is going to have more games then they'll ever play, because essentially they can download everything, and give anything a try.

C)  People who are getting copies of games on disc from other people didn't even think the game was worth the effort to download... let alone buy.

D)  The highest rates of piracy are in countires like Armenia.  Per Capita GDP $6,400.

Essentially when looking at piracy you have to look at pretty much western nations only... and even more so, mostly the United States, if we're going off a "would of bought it anyway" model, then you've got to take out the archivists, the poor, redownloads (A lot more common then you'd think).

Well the example in the article was the ND dude buying a CD with Crash games on it for $1. So people are paying already. If there was no piracy these people would not buy new games, they would buy used, the vast amjority of them anyway. So I think companies are blowing smoke by claiming any substational loss in sales from piracy. Their loss in sales might amount to about 1%, if that, of the number of pirated games distributed.

I also know people who, with movies, rationalise that studios are making money off them because they are seeing movies in the cinema, and they by some movies legitimately on DVD/Blu-ray. But they figure the legit spending they do is more than enough money going to the studions, actors, writers etc etc, so they also obtain a certain proportion of their movies through piracy. No doubt there are gamers like that too. They know developers need to get some of their money, so they buy some games new, and they pirate others. Again, if there was no piracy they'd buy used, or rent.

I get what you're saying and yes I do get that less popular games will be pirated just because they can and piracy wouldn't affect profit because less people wouldnt buy them at retail anyway. I made that point earlier. What i'm saying is that popular games like the gran turismos and call of dutys are highly popular games and I think a lot of people that got it pirated would of bought a retail copy.

Piracy of games was massive here in the uk from my experience on the ps1(you were the odd one out if you didnt have you ps1 chipped),ps2 and even now on psp and ds. my cousin and a few friends (who aren't archivists, poor or redownloaders) have a card with 20 games on for the ds when i can be 80% sure they would of bought at least 4 of the games on that card. PS3 and the 360 seem to have gotten a grip on piracy so thats good for the industry.

Anyway kasz. I do take on board your opinions and do respect them but without any hard evidence I have to go by my own experience.