Forums - Gaming Discussion - Naughty Dog co-founder: “We’ve lost millions to Piracy”

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It's just an excuse. Sales of all of this media is as high as it has ever been (With increasing costs and a poorer society in general) yet, Piracy is holding them back? Please. It's just an excuse for their shareholders. It's not looking at all of the facts just the selective ones.

Provide intrinsic value to your games and people won't pirate them, I guarantee it. People don't pirate World of Warcraft because there is no point. The value and fun being had on their servers is worth the fee and they don't really nickle and dime you until you get 2 expansions in.

Hell, I own all three Uncharted games. Yet the funniest part about that? I have played the Multiplayer for about an hour tops (On Uncharted 2) and haven't even touched it in the 3rd one yet. My question to Naughty Dog is ... "How many millions have you made off of people like me, who have absolutely no reason to buy their games when I could easily rent it for 5$ and beat it in a week?"

Personally, no game I have ever gone on to play pirated was ever a legitimate consideration of purchase. With the outside possibility of some SNES Rom games that those were pirated more on a sense of never being able to find the game to purchase.

Don't get me started on movies, music. How about they keep their big screen movies, latest albums on lock down so pirated copies don't hit the streets weeks before the public can purchase? That's the biggest crime in all of this, because they can't keep their material on lock down they need to find scape goats.



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Carl2291 said:
Kasz216 said:

A million... over all there games would probably be pushing it honestly.

It's not like piracy in the first world has ever been that big a deal for consoles.

It's all been in countries where a videogame roughly costs the same as a month's worth of food.

Plus, outside the Uncharted games... which have almost no piracy... what big games did they ever have?

The Crash games, but outside of one of them, all the big ones were on the PS2.... where again, piracy was pretty small in the western world.  What with internet connections still being in the stone ages.

I actually think there are probably very few console games that have lost "millions" of sales... and probably all revolve around Football (Both kinds) and Call of Duty.

The first 3 Crash Bandicoot games were huge.

Piracy on the original PlayStation was really huge, it wasn't everyone downloading it was everyone getting it on disc with a chipped console. PlayStation piracy was easy to do and at least in the UK, everyone I know who had a PlayStation had it chipped.

All together, the 3 Crash games were probably pirated way over a Million times. Possibly each.

As for your last statement, a LOT of console games get pirated to this day I'll post links.

Playstation 1&2 piracy literally built market for current gen consoles in Eastern Europe. In Poland majority of PS2 had modded laser. Now those people have grown up , got work and still play on Playstation but this time they are buying their games :)



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

Kasz216 said:

seems like a REALLY specific subjective situation to me.   I could eaisly note that I knew nobody with a chipped PS1.  Or PS2... only piracy ever being chipped Xboxes.

Also... that's not a lot.

It mor or less proves my point. 

The number of copies pirated that would of restulted in actual sales is generally very small and those piracy numbers are actually extremly small compared to other media.

Compare.

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-movies-of-2009-091220/


How do you know? Thats seems subjective to me unless there was a study on every single game pirated.

I say a study on every single pirated game because each game game is a different case. People who bought Gran turismo pirated would of got it because they really wanted and would be more likely to buy it if they couldnt get it pirated than somebody who got, lets say, actua golf pirated because they are more likey to have got it pirated because they was curious or just got it because it was cheap.

My point is you can't say its say "The number of copies pirated that would of restulted in actual sales is generally very small and those piracy numbers are actually extremly small compared to other media."  without you actually providing the right facts and why provide a link to pirated movies but not top pirated game. So how can we compare?

Somebody made a good point on here though. Piracy in some cases can build up some franchises because when people get older they tend to start to buy the games. From my experience I got Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo pirated. I love them and bought MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGS1 (PSN), Gran Turismo 2, GT3, GT4, GT5P, GT5 at retail. Not a bad return from losing a few quid on 2 pirated game



If it's worth buying, people will buy it legitimately. You can't think of pirates as potential customers, all you can really focus on is trying to make a good game with real market appeal, and the rest will sort itself out.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

well thats just how things work so live with it or just don't make things so that you don't have to complain



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(


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While its not as big as in other formats, its still fairly big.

You have to remember too that a new CD or DVD doesnt cost as much as a new videogame.



                            

Googling 'Crash Bandicoot torrent' turns up 1.5 million hits. With various emulators for the PC and torrents for the PSP. Just a quick search of two torrent sites shows the game as being downloaded nearly 50k times, with some of the download links only being posted a few weeks ago.

It may well have lost them millions, the game could well have been pirated for over the past 10 years now.

No idea of the rough math, but what would it need? 300k pirated copies over 10 years at an average selling price of $10 to make a loss of $3m in revenue? Doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility to me at all. That's covering all 4 Crash games which were big sellers. (They're also still selling, I think I've bought the game 3 times now.) Then there's also the 4 Jax games.



A thing of beauty, strength, and grace lies behind that whiskered face.

SWORDF1SH said:
Kasz216 said:

seems like a REALLY specific subjective situation to me.   I could eaisly note that I knew nobody with a chipped PS1.  Or PS2... only piracy ever being chipped Xboxes.

Also... that's not a lot.

It mor or less proves my point. 

The number of copies pirated that would of restulted in actual sales is generally very small and those piracy numbers are actually extremly small compared to other media.

Compare.

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-movies-of-2009-091220/


How do you know? Thats seems subjective to me unless there was a study on every single game pirated.

I say a study on every single pirated game because each game game is a different case. People who bought Gran turismo pirated would of got it because they really wanted and would be more likely to buy it if they couldnt get it pirated than somebody who got, lets say, actua golf pirated because they are more likey to have got it pirated because they was curious or just got it because it was cheap.

My point is you can't say its say "The number of copies pirated that would of restulted in actual sales is generally very small and those piracy numbers are actually extremly small compared to other media."  without you actually providing the right facts and why provide a link to pirated movies but not top pirated game. So how can we compare?

Somebody made a good point on here though. Piracy in some cases can build up some franchises because when people get older they tend to start to buy the games. From my experience I got Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo pirated. I love them and bought MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGS1 (PSN), Gran Turismo 2, GT3, GT4, GT5P, GT5 at retail. Not a bad return from losing a few quid on 2 pirated game

That's a logical fallacy for sure to argue that each game is a unique situation.  If that's a case 90% of science would be usless.

Also uh... he posted a link to top pirated games.  So i responded with a link of the movies, it was about 10 times difference.

Though yeah, piracy does have a lot of positive effects too, I in general didn't want to get into it, because when you mention the positive effects people tend to get a bit pissy because it doesn't fit with their world view.



phinch1 said:
Kasz216 said:
Carl2291 said:
Kasz216 said:

A million... over all there games would probably be pushing it honestly.

It's not like piracy in the first world has ever been that big a deal for consoles.

It's all been in countries where a videogame roughly costs the same as a month's worth of food.

Plus, outside the Uncharted games... which have almost no piracy... what big games did they ever have?

The Crash games, but outside of one of them, all the big ones were on the PS2.... where again, piracy was pretty small in the western world.  What with internet connections still being in the stone ages.

I actually think there are probably very few console games that have lost "millions" of sales... and probably all revolve around Football (Both kinds) and Call of Duty.

The first 3 Crash Bandicoot games were huge.

Piracy on the original PlayStation was really huge, it wasn't everyone downloading it was everyone getting it on disc with a chipped console. PlayStation piracy was easy to do and at least in the UK, everyone I know who had a PlayStation had it chipped.

All together, the 3 Crash games were probably pirated way over a Million times. Possibly each.

As for your last statement, a LOT of console games get pirated to this day I'll post links.

http://torrentfreak.com/the-most-pirated-games-of-2009-091227/
http://gamepolitics.com/2010/12/29/most-pirated-games-2010
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/12/31/these-are-the-most-pirated-games-of-2011.aspx

seems like a REALLY specific subjective situation to me.   I could eaisly note that I knew nobody with a chipped PS1.  Or PS2... only piracy ever being chipped Xboxes.

Also... that's not a lot.

It mor or less proves my point. 

The number of copies pirated that would of restulted in actual sales is generally very small and those piracy numbers are actually extremly small compared to other media.

Compare.

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-movies-of-2009-091220/


May have been Popular pirating ps1 in the uk then, Because i knew a lot of people who had chipped ps1's, even the lad up my road sold pirated games at school at the age of 13 aha, Not something i got into though.

Wouldn't be that surprised considering the difference in laws. 

Chipping in general is pretty illegal in most places where the games would of actually been bought.



Dallinor said:
Googling 'Crash Bandicoot torrent' turns up 1.5 million hits. With various emulators for the PC and torrents for the PSP. Just a quick search of two torrent sites shows the game as being downloaded nearly 50k times, with some of the download links only being posted a few weeks ago.

It may well have lost them millions, the game could well have been pirated for over the past 10 years now.

No idea of the rough math, but what would it need? 300k pirated copies over 10 years at an average selling price of $10 to make a loss of $3m in revenue? Doesn't seem outside the realms of possibility to me at all. That's covering all 4 Crash games which were big sellers. (They're also still selling, I think I've bought the game 3 times now.) Then there's also the 4 Jax games.

The download links being posted a few weeks ago works AGAINST your point you realize right?

Also, where are the PS1 crash games selling that ND gets a piece of the cut from?

300K a year, over 10 years, where people would pay 10 bucks a copy seems really outside the realm of probability... I mean, look again at the numbers posted on the more popular sites, it's miniscule .

50K?  You'd be lucky if you got 500 sales outta 50K downloads.