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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Ex EA Dev:”Old Republic will be one of the GREATEST FAILURES ever for MMO's

D-FENS on 17 October 2010

So, they could have made a few millions, maybe even a few tens of millions guaranteed by giving us what we wanted: KOTOR III.  Instead, they're on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars that is increasingly looking like an investment flushed down the me-too-WoW rabbit hole.

Well played gentlemen.  And we wonder why so many publishers/developers are shuttering their doors?



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daroamer on 17 October 2010
Hephaestos said:
Slimebeast said:
Hephaestos said:
Slimebeast said:

This game is a guaranteed super failure. MMO's aren't very hot now and there's literally no hype for KOTOR online. After a few months its subs will be down at a few 100K. I agree with the blogger, the game simply looks shit.

That was a very interesting blog post. It's sad to hear what has become of the fantastic Mythic Entertainment who once upon a time gave me Dark Age of Camelot, the best MMO ever made.


so DAoC was the best ever, but the same team can only do something that "looks shit" with a franchise bound to gather a few 100ks on brand suport only?

Wait a minute. DAOC was made by Mythic Entertainment 10 years ago. Mythic Entertainment got aquired by EA and then went on and made WAR Online which kinda sucked due to reasons that are mentioned in the blog (bad leadership and design, trying to mimic WoW etc).

KOTOR online on the other hand is made by Bioware, not Mythic (although they have transfered some of the Mythic guys over to the KOTOR development).

KOTOR Online may look appealing, beautiful, polished whatever. My bottom line is it will fail.


that's a better argumentation =). No comment.

(I believe one of the reasons war failed was because it was too similar to wow in apearance... orks dwarves...  they should have made a warhammer 40000 MMO instead :p, I mean I knew a little about the warhammer universe and it still seemed way too much as a wow clone, much more than LotR even though the lore is probably much closer in the 2)

You have that backwards, Warhammer was around a long time before WoW.



Killiana1a on 17 October 2010

First, how does a game development budget break $100 million, much less $300 million?

Game development does not have multi-million dollar actor contracts, so I am wondering who are the main culprits for the increased costs? Do producers, directors, and lead project designers make 6 to 7 figure salaries during development? If so, what hit games in their past resume justifies their salary?

Second, are marketing and distribution costs included or are they separate?

If anyone would be most kind to take the time in answering it would be most appreciated. Thank you for your time.



Linkasf on 17 October 2010
makingmusic476 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
makingmusic476 said:

So you linked to a blog, linking to another blog?

You should've just posted the original blog!  It's one hell of a read.  The idea that Bioware's The Old Republic has a budget surpassing $300 million is absolutely astounding.  And the guy continues providing further details on the whole Mythic situation in the comments section. 

Another EA employee posted in the comments as well:

"Hey EA Louse

As a current (for now) employee of EA myself, I feel you.

I heard about the lay offs a month ago (% worldwide) and I am bummed out.
I know what divisions that will be cut, and I see people who I KNOW FOR SURE will be cut everyday, multiple times a day, and it just breaks my heart.

Heck, I don’t know if I’ll still have a job come this November. It will be 5 years come this November too (For all you out there, 5 years in the games industry is like dog years)."

lol I'll add a link to the original blog in the OP too!

Isn't 300 Million normal for a MMO?

I heard WOW was 500 Million from people on N4g!


WoW's initial budget was only $100 million.  I'm sure it ballooned to over $300 million given al the expansions, server maintenance, etc., but those costs are covered by subscription fees, assuming the MMO is moderately successful.

A $300 million budget prior to launch is incredible.  As the guy said, it surpasses even Avatar, the most expensive movie ever made.

That being said, I don't see much evidence in his post that implies TOR will be a failure, aside from the monumental budget, and that's assuming that figure is even accurate.  His complaints about EA's handling of Mythic and Warhammer are valid and significant, but it seems as if he's just assuming the guys at Bioware are facing similar management issues.


Avatar is not the most expensive movie ever made.



zarx on 17 October 2010
darthdevidem01 said:
Vashyo said:

lol, I'm Definately expecting it to be better than FF XIV atleast. :P

This is actually the first MMORPG I've ever been interested in, I'm expecting a real storyline with solid immersion. I just hope it doesn't go the usual MMO-route with questing and item crafting, It allways gets tedious quick.

"collect 10 pieces of grass"

"Kill character A"

"Kill X amount of creatures"

lol being better than FFXIV isn't much because most games are better than FFXIV trollolololol

@Slimebeast

Your right, its unlikely they'll ever see a penny coming back to them

And this $300 Million budget could escalate even higher.


yea from what I have heard of FFXIV it wouldn't be that hard to make a better game. Hell apparently many Korean F2P MMOs are better. 

as for TOR to be honest that number if it is even more than a guess is probably rounded up from like 250 plus and would be the total budget for the entire project, chances are they won't have spent all of it by launch. And the on going costs like servers, patches and expansions wouldn't be added to the budget. But then again if they do spend over 300 million I think they will be in real trouble.

they will need to move at least 3 million copies and keep at least 1 million for the first year and for the player base to expand to at least 2 million at it's peak and sustain 1-2 million for at least 4 years for a chance to make that back IMO, I mean EA said they needed 1 million subs to break even and were expecting 2 million. But they do have a  chance to do that, SW galaxies managed 1 million copies in 2 years and everyone knows what a disaster that was and MMOs were far less popular then. Add in annual expansions and some premium paid items like a canon breaking millennium falcon and they should be good.



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Hephaestos on 25 October 2010
daroamer said:
Hephaestos said:
Slimebeast said:
Hephaestos said:
Slimebeast said:

This game is a guaranteed super failure. MMO's aren't very hot now and there's literally no hype for KOTOR online. After a few months its subs will be down at a few 100K. I agree with the blogger, the game simply looks shit.

That was a very interesting blog post. It's sad to hear what has become of the fantastic Mythic Entertainment who once upon a time gave me Dark Age of Camelot, the best MMO ever made.


so DAoC was the best ever, but the same team can only do something that "looks shit" with a franchise bound to gather a few 100ks on brand suport only?

Wait a minute. DAOC was made by Mythic Entertainment 10 years ago. Mythic Entertainment got aquired by EA and then went on and made WAR Online which kinda sucked due to reasons that are mentioned in the blog (bad leadership and design, trying to mimic WoW etc).

KOTOR online on the other hand is made by Bioware, not Mythic (although they have transfered some of the Mythic guys over to the KOTOR development).

KOTOR Online may look appealing, beautiful, polished whatever. My bottom line is it will fail.


that's a better argumentation =). No comment.

(I believe one of the reasons war failed was because it was too similar to wow in apearance... orks dwarves...  they should have made a warhammer 40000 MMO instead :p, I mean I knew a little about the warhammer universe and it still seemed way too much as a wow clone, much more than LotR even though the lore is probably much closer in the 2)

You have that backwards, Warhammer was around a long time before WoW.

I meant the MMO.

 

both warhammer and warcraft are inspired of LoTR in essence (or were there elves and orcs even before tolkien?) Same as the LoTR MMO is greatly inspired of others although the source material is older.

(sorry for the 2 week old reply :p)



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