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Forums - General - Swimmers plunged into dark 'to protect Muslim women's modesty'

Lostplanet22 said:
Doobie_wop said:
lightbleeder said:
hasanwhy said:

Geez, as an American Muslim, I've heard these kinds of stories a hundred times over. I'm sick and tired of people trying to oppose their views onto others and vice-versa. I've come to the conclusion that neither party is right in these kinds of situations. Call me out for taking the neutral approach, but I'm just sick and tired of people caring about what other people can or cannot do. As is the case with this thread. If you don't like immigrants changing the face of your country well tough luck because there is little you can do to prevent that, but I do agree that the culture of a nation should always be preserved and passed on to those who enter its borders. Now lets switch up the situation. Lets say that another group of minorities wanted the same treatment to a swimming pool in some random state. Would the situation be the same or different?

Btw, anyone remember that Pakistani girl that was on the news because her dad threatened her for converting? Random question in a serious thread, ftw. lol  

It's great to know muslims like you, that doesn't believe in jihad or that islam should conquer all the world. Well for what I read you seem to be the kind that keeps the religion to himself.

Let me ask you a question, if one of your children would like to marry one of my children in the future, would you let it happen even if there isn't any conversion?

What the hell!? Just because they follow their religion it doesn't mean they believe Islam should conquer the world. Other religions don't keep their belief's to themselves, Christmas decorations are hung up all over stores and streets, the US president refers to God in nearly every speech, Easter is basically thrown into everyone's faces.

I don't see why the majority should be making all the rules instead of coming up with a compromise like the pool has. Someone in this thread said that a one way mirror would have been more appropriate, would you accept that? It doesn't hurt you and it help's the muslim customers.

And even that is changing:

Students, staff and visitors will not find a Christmas tree in the lobby of the “Haagse Hogeschool” (College in The Hague, the Netherlands) this year. A Christmas tree is considered a symbol of a Christian celebration and a decorated Christmas tree in the school’s lobby would not convey the message of a culturally diverse institution.


that is backwards.  if you want to show that you are culturally diverse you celebrate all religious holiday's. I am sure the other religions wouldn't appreciate being blamed for ruining everyone's fun.

OP: there was alternatives the council may pride itself in listening to it's citizens but it has failed in acting appropriately. I don't think the people who complained were wrong to do so but the actions that were taken as a result were wrong.



correct me if I am wrong
stop me if I am bias
I love a good civilised debate (but only if we can learn something).

 

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megaman79 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
lightbleeder said:

Today it was covering the windows of a public pool, but what's gonna be next? This kind of thing leads to a chain reaction where this minority will slowly ask for more serious stuff and I'm pretty sure some of that serious stuff will be granted to them...

The worst of all is that I think it's inevitable the retun of fascism to Europe, just because politicians are being "politically correct" right now...

Just imagine that muslim population (the one that doesn't blend) becomes 25% of an european contry, of course they'll get more rights that are against the majority, and that will make some natural citizens really really mad, far-right politicians will take advantage of this and will make extreme promises, angry people will bite the bait and then slowly that country will become very fascist where the minorities will face very hard consequences...

There are some neo nazis and fascist groups getting stronger all accross europe because of this...

The wheels are already turning in that direction right now. I of course hope everything pans out, but I could see something like that happening.

This sums it up very well:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmAqt7x1jvY&feature=related

jesus christ, you don't think this is a slight over reaction to tinted windows? You people are seriously paranoid.

edit> btw, nice objective source there, Christian News.


If I quoted the OP then yes it would be an overraction
But I quoted Lightbleeder and his view about 'Politically correctness'
and the vid showed very well the problem Lightbleeder is talking about it;

It is Christian news well first I did not know that..;But serious I should not
put up vids of Christian news? ...It If Put a vid of Fox news I get bombed aswell with negative comments

Seriously what did the Christian news vid said so wrong?



 

megaman79 said:
BrayanA said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
FootballFan said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

so ugh what's the big deal? :S man honestly I think if it's Muslims people get bent out of shape so badly so fast...if some 'accomadtions' were made for chrstians or something it won't be an issue since that's the majority..Hypocracy at it's finest

No accomodations are made for Christians. Or at least it is rare as they don't tend to pull out the discrimination card....as frequently.



Really now? Descrimination exists my friend.....especially depending on where you are it can be very extreme..I know of an Inidian family who got their house destroyed by thrown rocks cuz they 'looked' muslim..I know many who didn't land the job they deserve cuz they are muslim...I know how many institutes have we won't accomadate other religions mentality in the western nations.....I know some places who won't let muslim workers do their prayers on time even...you know why it may not seem to be the case for the Christians? Cuz these ARE christian nations..and imagine a scenario where there is a rule in the Bible about dress codes that's out of the norm, you honestly think UK and USA and other nations in the western world won't accomadate this? what Nonsense....it's their religion, their faith, if someone feels it's only fair they get accomadated for that then so be it...the lack of tolerance for other religions is horrible in quite a few so called developed nations and that is reality..same goes for sexuality and to a lesser extent gender

I know that these acts might lead to some seggregation in a society, however intolerance will lead to more severe seggregation and mistrust

ps: Not a Muslim nor am I a christian for the record

Do you know how many Christians can't get a proper jobs in some muslims contries by the same reasons? If I go with my wife in Iran for example she needs to wear hijab or she go in jail and nobody ask about her religion/feelings. Do you think that in Saudi Arabia they will stop selling beef, cos there are indian minority in their country? There are even cities you can't get in if you are not muslim. Show me one city in the cristians country where you can't enter if you are not christian! If you go to foreign country you need to conform with its way of life, not the other way.

Well i think you're ignoring many muslim/islamic countries where this stuff DOESN'T matter so much.

 Countries like Malaysia, and plenty of other countries, like Indonesia, are very open and democratic. Ofcourse, we are talking more likely in major cities, rather than the country, but tell me if this is any different from certain parts of the United States.


JAKARTA, Indonesia -- Father Ricardo walked gingerly across the charred remains
of a church that recently was torched by a band of Muslim fanatics.
In a macabre scene, burned pews, crushed stained glass windows, tattered vestments,
a communion chalice and a few torn pages from a hymnal dotted the floor.

"It's a nightmare. My Lord, when is it going to stop? Where is this all going to lead?
" he said softly again and again, in great despair.




In this Tuesday, June 29, 2010 photo, an Indonesian Muslim man looks at a banner with a picture
of a young, bespectacled Christian man and the words: "Death penalty for Andreas Dusly Sanau ... ,
" in front of a mosque
at Bekasi on the outskirts of Jakarta, Indonesia. (AP Photo/Achmad Ibrahim)


Very open and tolerant indeed....

Note: this picture is made only 15km away from the capital



 

Lostplanet22 said:
megaman79 said:
BrayanA said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
FootballFan said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

so ugh what's the big deal? :S man honestly I think if it's Muslims people get bent out of shape so badly so fast...if some 'accomadtions' were made for chrstians or something it won't be an issue since that's the majority..Hypocracy at it's finest

No accomodations are made for Christians. Or at least it is rare as they don't tend to pull out the discrimination card....as frequently.



Really now? Descrimination exists my friend.....especially depending on where you are it can be very extreme..I know of an Inidian family who got their house destroyed by thrown rocks cuz they 'looked' muslim..I know many who didn't land the job they deserve cuz they are muslim...I know how many institutes have we won't accomadate other religions mentality in the western nations.....I know some places who won't let muslim workers do their prayers on time even...you know why it may not seem to be the case for the Christians? Cuz these ARE christian nations..and imagine a scenario where there is a rule in the Bible about dress codes that's out of the norm, you honestly think UK and USA and other nations in the western world won't accomadate this? what Nonsense....it's their religion, their faith, if someone feels it's only fair they get accomadated for that then so be it...the lack of tolerance for other religions is horrible in quite a few so called developed nations and that is reality..same goes for sexuality and to a lesser extent gender

I know that these acts might lead to some seggregation in a society, however intolerance will lead to more severe seggregation and mistrust

ps: Not a Muslim nor am I a christian for the record

Do you know how many Christians can't get a proper jobs in some muslims contries by the same reasons? If I go with my wife in Iran for example she needs to wear hijab or she go in jail and nobody ask about her religion/feelings. Do you think that in Saudi Arabia they will stop selling beef, cos there are indian minority in their country? There are even cities you can't get in if you are not muslim. Show me one city in the cristians country where you can't enter if you are not christian! If you go to foreign country you need to conform with its way of life, not the other way.

Well i think you're ignoring many muslim/islamic countries where this stuff DOESN'T matter so much.

 Countries like Malaysia, and plenty of other countries, like Indonesia, are very open and democratic. Ofcourse, we are talking more likely in major cities, rather than the country, but tell me if this is any different from certain parts of the United States.


JAKARTA, Indonesia -- Father Ricardo walked gingerly across the charred remains
of a church that recently was torched by a band of Muslim fanatics.
In a macabre scene, burned pews, crushed stained glass windows, tattered vestments,
a communion chalice and a few torn pages from a hymnal dotted the floor.

"It's a nightmare. My Lord, when is it going to stop? Where is this all going to lead?
" he said softly again and again, in great despair.




In this Tuesday, June 29, 2010 photo, an Indonesian Muslim man looks at a banner with a picture
of a young, bespectacled Christian man and the words: "Death penalty for Andreas Dusly Sanau ... ,
" in front of a mosque
at Bekasi on the outskirts of Jakarta, Indonesia. (AP Photo/Achmad Ibrahim)


Very open and tolerant indeed....

Note: this picture is made only 15km away from the capital

I heard that story as well from a different source.

Edit: it was a different attack on a Chrisitian chruch in Indonesia (Jakarta?)



If  everybody's really that upset about it,they could go somewhere else,are stop going there altogether. lol



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@FootballFan: Possible the same church can't 100% guarantee it.

the article of the picture says enough:


"I really see this as a threat to democracy," said Arbi Sanit, a political analyst, noting leaders never like to say anything that can be perceived as "un-Islamic," because they depend heavily on the support of Muslim parties in parliament.

"Being popular is more important to them than punishing those who are clearly breaking the law," Sanit said.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hBS6_bNG0BjpoGBOSJIgaNEQiadA



 

Political Correctness is not a bad thing. Though a lot of people try to pitch the notion that it goes too far. The truth being that it is usually a case of the ones complaining being the ones that are actually self absorbed. Firstly a immigrant doesn't have to respect your customs. Anymore then you have to respect theirs. What they are obligated to do is respect your laws. The Council actually behaved equitable in this instance. They couldn't imagine that a few tinted windows would bother the vast majority of users while it was making a small number of users more comfortable. Perhaps they need a different solution that serves both groups. Perhaps curtains that can be drawn, or perhaps landscape that blocks the view.

From what I have seen in this thread. I am going to venture the statement that the problem isn't the windows. The real problem is people feal threated by them, and why are you threatened by a couple tinted windows. The answer is fairly simple your still suffering from some racism. Even if you don't admit to that. Which is something that has been ingrained in Western culture for millenia. Basically the Romans had it, and they gave that to most of Europe, and thus on to her future colonies.

Why do the Muslims get so much slack. The answer is rather simple, because they are so backwards. More to the point, because they are centuries behind the rest of the civilized world culturally, politically, and institutionally. They aren't going to catch up over night. They will mind you, but it isn't as if their dated sense of modesty, sexism, or supperiority are going to just evaporate suddenly. Remember Western cultures had to struggle their way forward to, and that took a lot of time. Just a century ago in the United States women weren't even recognized as equals, and as of fifty years ago racial minorities were being terrorized just for demanding their legal rights.

Oh and by the by. Christmas and its traditions aren't the problem. The problem is theocrats trying to coopt secular practices to enforce their religious point of view. Christianity is good about trying to steal away holidays. Christmas was practiced long before there was a Christianity. It isn't a coincidence that the holiday almost falls right on top of the winter solstice. That said Jesus couldn't have even technically been born in December so the Christian aspect isn't even justified.

Nobody has problems with Santa. He isn't a religiou icon. Neither are flying reindeer, Evergreen trees, gift giving, foods that are seasonal, or a bunch of sugar sweet songs. The problem happens when Christians think that they own the holiday, and demand that you recognize their god. I remember a couple years ago when some Christian groups tried to force retailers to wish people a Merry Christmas rather then Happy Holidays. Seriously how the hell can you get pissed with a nondenominational well wishing. That is part of why we are moving toward Festivus as the name. Christmas was a lot of fun until Christian fuck nuts tried to use it as a political agenda.



To my fellow UKers, would you kindly stop comparing my great nation to how some backwards shithole sandpit treats other religions. Lots of 3rd world countries treat foreign religions badly, it's not exclusive to Muslim countries.

Why are Muslims born in the UK somehow responsible for how foreign nations treat minority races and religions? Are Christian English people somehow responsible for how Christian Germany treated Europe's Jews?

The "what would happen in a Muslim country?" line is such a crock of shit. I find it funny that nobody minded when Indian and Pakistani immigrants pretty much changed our national dish to the Chicken curry but frosting windows is an outrage. Muslims get just as annoyed when some leftwing local council decides to promote 'racial harmony' by outlawing the word Christmas.

Irish terrorists bombed Protestant England for years yet everybody still loves the Irish. Maybe we should let Al Qaida sit in Parliament like we did with the IRA.

Our Muzzies are great, leave them alone and stop being so European.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Dodece said:

Political Correctness is not a bad thing. Though a lot of people try to pitch the notion that it goes too far. The truth being that it is usually a case of the ones complaining being the ones that are actually self absorbed. Firstly a immigrant doesn't have to respect your customs. Anymore then you have to respect theirs. What they are obligated to do is respect your laws. The Council actually behaved equitable in this instance. They couldn't imagine that a few tinted windows would bother the vast majority of users while it was making a small number of users more comfortable. Perhaps they need a different solution that serves both groups. Perhaps curtains that can be drawn, or perhaps landscape that blocks the view.

From what I have seen in this thread. I am going to venture the statement that the problem isn't the windows. The real problem is people feal threated by them, and why are you threatened by a couple tinted windows. The answer is fairly simple your still suffering from some racism. Even if you don't admit to that. Which is something that has been ingrained in Western culture for millenia. Basically the Romans had it, and they gave that to most of Europe, and thus on to her future colonies.

Why do the Muslims get so much slack. The answer is rather simple, because they are so backwards. More to the point, because they are centuries behind the rest of the civilized world culturally, politically, and institutionally. They aren't going to catch up over night. They will mind you, but it isn't as if their dated sense of modesty, sexism, or supperiority are going to just evaporate suddenly. Remember Western cultures had to struggle their way forward to, and that took a lot of time. Just a century ago in the United States women weren't even recognized as equals, and as of fifty years ago racial minorities were being terrorized just for demanding their legal rights.

Oh and by the by. Christmas and its traditions aren't the problem. The problem is theocrats trying to coopt secular practices to enforce their religious point of view. Christianity is good about trying to steal away holidays. Christmas was practiced long before there was a Christianity. It isn't a coincidence that the holiday almost falls right on top of the winter solstice. That said Jesus couldn't have even technically been born in December so the Christian aspect isn't even justified.

Nobody has problems with Santa. He isn't a religiou icon. Neither are flying reindeer, Evergreen trees, gift giving, foods that are seasonal, or a bunch of sugar sweet songs. The problem happens when Christians think that they own the holiday, and demand that you recognize their god. I remember a couple years ago when some Christian groups tried to force retailers to wish people a Merry Christmas rather then Happy Holidays. Seriously how the hell can you get pissed with a nondenominational well wishing. That is part of why we are moving toward Festivus as the name. Christmas was a lot of fun until Christian fuck nuts tried to use it as a political agenda.

what's with all of this venting. There's different kind's of people in all religious groups. You got your deeply religious people that do try to force there views on you. You also have the religious people that respect other people's view's. This goes for whatever you believe,whether you believe in a god, are not.



@oldschoolfool

I think it was pretty clear I was talking to religious zealots. Speaking to venting I suppose at some level I was. I am tired of good fun holidays getting ruined by fanatics. The fact that you just can't be kind to everyone in the holiday season is just one example. I don't want to even go into some of the depraved shit they have pulled on Halloween. We can't even have a good time anymore without some religious fruit loops trying to crash the party. So yeah I do take it kind of personal when I try to go buy a valentines present for someone, and get called a fucking pervert on the street.

You are probably luckier then I am. I live right in the middle of a bible belt. Which means I have to put up with a whole lot of shit when it comes to holidays. I can't take my young relatives into some neighborhoods, because someone has put up a Hell house. They thump bible verse everytime I pull a practical joke on April Fools. You can't even have some good fun on St Patricks day. Really they actually have a problem with wearing green for a day. Plus it gets worse every year with the shit they stir up.