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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Ten simple rules to make a successful Wii game

okr on 24 October 2009
RolStoppable said:

 

 

Now that this is done, I want to say something about the last rule (something serious). Nintendo isn't in a different world and their games don't automatically sell because they are Nintendo games. If their games are second rate and/or not what people expected, customers will notice it and respond negatively. The proof for that are Animal Crossing and Wii Music which are in no way, shape and form up to the quality of the likes of Super Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii. And it's not just that these two games themselves underperformed, they damaged the reputation and momentum of the Wii itself. The lesson learned is that success should never be taken for granted and even Nintendo isn't immune to that, although it seemed like they believed they are (considering what happened in the last twelve months).

This last paragraph seems contradictory to me.

According to VGChartz data Animal Crossing: City Folk sold 3.37 million, Wii Music 2.66 million copies.

If - according to you - these two games lack quality compared to other Nintendo games and damaged the reputation of the Wii, but at the same time sold million copies, aren't these two games according to your logic the proof that Nintendo games sell automatically because they are Nintendo games?



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liquidninja on 24 October 2009
RolStoppable said:

Extraction was the wrong game at the wrong time. It's understandable that people would rather wait until Darkside Chronicles come out and then decide which railshooter they'll get, because there aren't many gamers who need two of them within two months. Also, the Resident Evil universe is more appealing and the footage shown so far looked good, meaning that DSE had only slim chances to succeed anyway.

Then there's the issue is that DSE seems to be rushed out to get on the market before the most likely superior competition. There are some issues with the collision detection and some framerate drops while streaming data from the disc, plus the weapons are heavily unbalanced and the game is very easy. I played through all four difficulty settings and don't know how the Game Over screen looks like. Another annoying aspect is the cinematic approach of the game. While it might be cool on the first playthrough, it's incredibly annoying on a second run when you have to sit through minutes of unskipable conversations. Also, lame ranking system and not much replay value, some levels in challenge mode are already boring on the first play.

In the end DSE was nothing more than a filler until better games arrive and fillers don't light up the charts.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thought this. I didn't even play the game, but from the videos it just looked like there was too many times you had to wait for some story to progress before the game would let you start playing again.



subtle_overlord on 24 October 2009
RolStoppable said:

over 9,000 copies.

Vegeta would be disappointed.



psrock on 24 October 2009
RolStoppable said:
okr said:
RolStoppable said:

 

 

Now that this is done, I want to say something about the last rule (something serious). Nintendo isn't in a different world and their games don't automatically sell because they are Nintendo games. If their games are second rate and/or not what people expected, customers will notice it and respond negatively. The proof for that are Animal Crossing and Wii Music which are in no way, shape and form up to the quality of the likes of Super Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii. And it's not just that these two games themselves underperformed, they damaged the reputation and momentum of the Wii itself. The lesson learned is that success should never be taken for granted and even Nintendo isn't immune to that, although it seemed like they believed they are (considering what happened in the last twelve months).

This last paragraph seems contradictory to me.

According to VGChartz data Animal Crossing: City Folk sold 3.37 million, Wii Music 2.66 million copies.

If - according to you - these two games lack quality compared to other Nintendo games and damaged the reputation of the Wii, but at the same time sold million copies, aren't these two games according to your logic the proof that Nintendo games sell automatically because they are Nintendo games?

Those were Nintendo's holiday games and by Nintendo's standards three and two million in sales respectively aren't exactly a lot (*EDIT: Those two games also didn't show any big legs which shows that gamers aren't really recommending these titles to other people*). Also, if a company builds a reputation of delivering quality, it's possible to get good initial sales for not that great products due to hype and people trusting the brand. This happens all the time. However, people become wary afterwards and a company shouldn't disappoint another time. A comparable example would be Blizzard and Starcraft 2. Incredible reputation, I have no doubts that Starcraft 2 will sell millions even if it isn't that great. Just like Nintendo, Blizzard earned their reputation over the years, but it's not eternal and shouldn't be taken for granted.

The big difference between Nintendo and third parties is that Nintendo had the reputation while many third parties actually build negative reputation with their early games and even some of their big franchises have a harder time selling now because of lazy efforts early on. Basically Nintendo has indeed an advantage over third parties, but they rightfully earned it.

I agree with you there Rol, history has shown us the better the wii game the more they sell.



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
okr on 24 October 2009

So you say these two games sold "only" 6 million copies and didn't show any big legs because people were disappointed by their quality, but couldn't be the deeper truth that many of Nintendo's "core" fans disliked both games not only after, but already PRIOR to release, because these were not the games they would have preferred (e.g. new 2D or 3D Mario platformer, new Zelda, new Metroid)?

Of course I can't prove it, but I have a feeling that many of these 6 million copies were sold to gamers which were new to consoles, i.e. gamers which are presumably unbiased by default and are often called "casuals" on forums like this.

As you mentioned Blizzard, here's a hypothetical analogy: If they hadn't announced Diablo 3 and Starcraft II, but The Lost Vikings 3 instead, I bet their devoted fans would have torn them apart and the game would have sold nothing compared to Blizzard's usual standards, no matter what quality it might have had.

To get more on topic, as this is a thread about the efforts of Wii's 3rd party developers in the first place:
You said "The big difference between Nintendo and third parties is that Nintendo had the reputation while many third parties actually build negative reputation with their early games and even some of their big franchises have a harder time selling now because of lazy efforts early on".
This again doesn't make much sense to me as all your argumentatio seems to be based only on your own point of view, i.e. it's a "core" gamer's argumentation with all your knowledge about (Nintendo's) gaming systems. A good portion of the 50+ mio. Wii owners are first time console owners. These people have probably heard about Nintendo's good reputation, but I'm sure most of them don't know or care about the reputation (or even the name) of 3rd party developers. So how can there be negative reputation of 3rd party developers, if many people don't even know the name of the game company they bought their game from?

If many 3rd party efforts are lazy on Wii, are many 3rd party efforts lazy on PS3 and 360 as well? If this question can be answered with no, who's to blame?
The 3rd party developers? Of course.
Nintendo? I know, lots of people will disagree with me here, but I think Nintendo is at least partially to blame as well.

I'm not the biggest Microsoft fan on earth, but I think this gen (in fact it already started last gen) they developed a strength Nintendo still misses: Excellent support of 3rd party developers in order to convince them to join their gaming system - and I'm not speaking of money hatting here, but of full support with development kits and own trained staff.

Nintendo is an extremely clever company when it comes to their own business, but I still wonder - especially in the light of the only moderate success of the Gamecube - why they didn't (seem to) understand that, with the Wii, it should have been one of their most important tasks right from the start to fully support 3rd party companies and help them to understand and learn about their new approach, their new console and especially their new motion controls.



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theprof00 on 24 October 2009
psrock said:
RolStoppable said:
okr said:
RolStoppable said:

 

 

Now that this is done, I want to say something about the last rule (something serious). Nintendo isn't in a different world and their games don't automatically sell because they are Nintendo games. If their games are second rate and/or not what people expected, customers will notice it and respond negatively. The proof for that are Animal Crossing and Wii Music which are in no way, shape and form up to the quality of the likes of Super Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii. And it's not just that these two games themselves underperformed, they damaged the reputation and momentum of the Wii itself. The lesson learned is that success should never be taken for granted and even Nintendo isn't immune to that, although it seemed like they believed they are (considering what happened in the last twelve months).

This last paragraph seems contradictory to me.

According to VGChartz data Animal Crossing: City Folk sold 3.37 million, Wii Music 2.66 million copies.

If - according to you - these two games lack quality compared to other Nintendo games and damaged the reputation of the Wii, but at the same time sold million copies, aren't these two games according to your logic the proof that Nintendo games sell automatically because they are Nintendo games?

Those were Nintendo's holiday games and by Nintendo's standards three and two million in sales respectively aren't exactly a lot (*EDIT: Those two games also didn't show any big legs which shows that gamers aren't really recommending these titles to other people*). Also, if a company builds a reputation of delivering quality, it's possible to get good initial sales for not that great products due to hype and people trusting the brand. This happens all the time. However, people become wary afterwards and a company shouldn't disappoint another time. A comparable example would be Blizzard and Starcraft 2. Incredible reputation, I have no doubts that Starcraft 2 will sell millions even if it isn't that great. Just like Nintendo, Blizzard earned their reputation over the years, but it's not eternal and shouldn't be taken for granted.

The big difference between Nintendo and third parties is that Nintendo had the reputation while many third parties actually build negative reputation with their early games and even some of their big franchises have a harder time selling now because of lazy efforts early on. Basically Nintendo has indeed an advantage over third parties, but they rightfully earned it.

I agree with you there Rol, history has shown us the better the wii game the more they sell.

You should rephrase that as, the better the wii game appeals to the core ..." " "



angrypoolman on 24 October 2009

wow, Rol got burned.



psrock on 24 October 2009
RolStoppable said:
psrock said:
RolStoppable said:

Those were Nintendo's holiday games and by Nintendo's standards three and two million in sales respectively aren't exactly a lot (*EDIT: Those two games also didn't show any big legs which shows that gamers aren't really recommending these titles to other people*). Also, if a company builds a reputation of delivering quality, it's possible to get good initial sales for not that great products due to hype and people trusting the brand. This happens all the time. However, people become wary afterwards and a company shouldn't disappoint another time. A comparable example would be Blizzard and Starcraft 2. Incredible reputation, I have no doubts that Starcraft 2 will sell millions even if it isn't that great. Just like Nintendo, Blizzard earned their reputation over the years, but it's not eternal and shouldn't be taken for granted.

The big difference between Nintendo and third parties is that Nintendo had the reputation while many third parties actually build negative reputation with their early games and even some of their big franchises have a harder time selling now because of lazy efforts early on. Basically Nintendo has indeed an advantage over third parties, but they rightfully earned it.

I agree with you there Rol, history has shown us the better the wii game the more they sell.

I know you are being sarcastic, but still, what you said holds mostly true. The better a game is, the more people who are interested in that kind of game it can sell to.

Evaluate how big the market for a game like MadWorld is. Are women interested in that kind of game? Most likely not, there goes a large chunk of the market. How about kids? Oh nevermind. Men? Mostly male teenagers. How many of them like stylistic black and white graphics? It's definitely a minority. So that means that the number of gamers who could actually be interested in the game is already very limited. Add a short game length and repetition and you lose some more customers. Suddenly MadWorld's sales start to look impressive. I am the master of spin.

Now evaluate the possible size of Mario Kart Wii's market. Notice a difference?

I am disapointed in MARIO kart's sale, I predicted 50 Million.

Seriously, I can never compare a mature game to a Mario game whic i agree with you appeals to everyone. But, my point still stands, it's more about appeal, connecting to the right market and knowing what their fans want that has given Nintendo such great advantage. It doesnt mean their games are better than the third party, it just so well placed and attractive to the buyer.

As a gamer though, I care more for the quality instead of appeal, fortunatly Nintendo make both.



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
elmerion on 24 October 2009

Just to be sure, was that sarcasm?

Impressive list, i hate how developers make it seem hard to make a good game, i think there is one only rule for wii games

Make sure its fun, and not just the average "im having a good time fun" REAL FUN like going to the beach, wii users (casuals or whatever you may call them) dont play videogames for the same reason as the hardcore/average gamer, they just want a good time, they dont want weird things, they dont want to be treated as retards, they dont want huge deep cheesy storylines, but they dont want dry games either

1-Graphics are uninmportant, but that doesnt mean they must SUCK
2-Gameplay is important, waggling is not gameplay, add true ingame mechanics and make it real
3-Music, girls love it
4-Mario, selfexplanatory
5-LOCAL MULTIPLAYER
6-In case the game is aimed at "hardcore" gamers, do not make an spinoff, do not add wagling, do not remake a game



Nintendo is the best videogames company ever!

scruffybunny on 24 October 2009

Nice OP :)


@The debate about animal crossing and wii music

1) They sold millions because they are Nintendo games, which are *expected* to be excellent (impulse buying!)
2) I never heard of Animal Crossing or ignored it if I saw it because ...
3) Animal Crossing sounds like a kiddie game (and there are no kids in my household right now)
4) I wanted Wii music to be good, but reviews generally give it a 50/100 score
5) Everyone loves music
6) I wanted/let family members to conduct an orchestra like Miyamoto did during Wii's launch.
7) Repeat, no positive reviews for Wii music, nullify all prior interest
8) Name brand but unknown/unproven franchises

I didn't really read much about the Blizzard arguments (sorry), but Blizz has not come out with a new IP since Star Craft, in my view, everything later is from a prior proven franchise, Blizzard has not taken the risk for a new IP for a long ass time. And really, Start Craft is really just Warcraft in space.