Forums - Sales Discussion - Is the Wii doomed?

Can someone tell me what good Sony first party games are out?




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Death2009 said: who said they should stop?
The whole thread was about that thired party sales was bad, so that Wii would lose thired party sales. So far Ubi has shown that their offerings that has been made exclusive has sold well, so why should they stop? It was more a question against the whole "thired parties doesn't sell on Nintendo Hardware"



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To a certain extent they're correct in that Wii ports (in general) have not been selling as well as they have on the PS3; and some of this can be blamed on the popularity of The Legend of Zelda, Wario Ware, Wii Play and Wii Sports (Nintendo's biggest first party games on the Wii). One of the problems is that some of these third party games haven't been well reviewed ( Marvel: Ultimate Alliance: 75.0% (Wii) 81.4% (PS3) Call of Duty 3: 69.3% (Wii) 80.7% (PS3) Need for Speed Carbon: 65.4% (Wii) 78.6% (PS3) Another main factor is that a lot of people who bought the Wii did so because they wanted different gameplay experiences; Red-Steel has sold (reasonably) well for its quality mainly because people wanted to sword fight with the Wiimote. Finally, I don't think you can discount the virtual console ... Currently 65 games have been released in North America ( ) and I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that the average Wii gamer has bought a handful of Virtual Console games they loved rather than a mediocre third party Wii game.

First of all let me say this is this is just the games in the top 50 from this site but, the 3rd party sales are worse than 1st party on Nintendo but that's more true in Japan than anything so in America we should still get good third party support. America 1st=2,202,000 units sold(3 games) Zelda,Wii Play, and WarioWare. 3rd=775,000 untits sold(3 games) Madden,Sonic(only 88k), and Rayman Japan 1st=3,154,000 units sold(7 games)Zelda,Eyesheild(only 9,000),WarioWare,Fire Emblem, Wii Sports, and Wii Play 3rd=66,500 units sold(2 games) Bomberman and Naruto It's a very vaild point but if the third parties in America can sell that good then it should be fine. PS: I could fine some of the other 1st/3rd party games info if someone could update my chart with the rest of the info that would be great.




Well I took a quick look through the latest top 200 from USA here on vgcharts. Let see what I have found, for 3rd parties we have the following numbers: Wii: 3 games above 300k 3 games above 200k 5 games above 100k PS3: 1 game above 300k 1 game above 200k 6 games above 100k As I see it the 3rd parties sells is good enough to prove that Wii can substain good enough 3rd parties sales to substain thired party offerings even after the death of ps2, which might be farther away that some people think just because of Wii ports. Of course their will be a lot of ports between xbox360 and PS3, which will let all systems getting good games. I am also sorry to have followed kwaads lead with comparing cross ports. I just wanted to show that some games is selling better on another system and what he showed was just one part.



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gamingdevil said: Kwaad said: Here is my point. Worldwide. there are 7 1million+ 3rd party games for PSP there are 5 1million+ 3rd party games for DS Rember the DS outnumbers the PSP almost 2 to 1. WHY... WHY IN THE WORLD... does the PSP have MORE 1million+ 3rd party sellers... WORLD WIDE... than the DS? Why is the HIGHEST 3rd party DS game 1.51 and the PSP is 3.49? These numbers seem to continue with the Wii. 3rd party games sell better on the PSP because 1st party games suck. I have a PSP (again) and a DS. I have 10 3rd party games on my DS and 5 1st party and i have 11 games on the PSP ALL of them 3rd party. When you have a PSP or a PS3 you have no other option, you buy 3rd parties. And the 3rd party games on the Wii are much cheaper to make so if they make a profit on a PS3 when it gets 200k sales, on the Wii they make a profit when they get 100k copies. See my point? Even if they sale less, they don't care if they make more profit
First party Sony games suck on the PSP ? Killzone Liberation doesnt suck . Lemmings doesnt suck . Daxter doesnt suck . Loco Roco doesnt suck . Syphon Filter Dark Mirror doesnt suck . Ratchet & Clank Size Matters doesnt suck . Fiel Commander doesnt suck . Jean d´Arc (although developed by Level 5 a Sony game ) doesnt suck . Socom Fireteam Bravo doesnt suck . Bleach Heat the Soul doesnt suck . Its more your argument the one that sucks .There is simply more third party software sold in the PSP because 80% of the DS sales are Nintendogs ,Mario in his various versions ,Brain Trainings ,Tetris and Pokemons by Nintendo .

How many of those are Million Sellers? And how much have they sold?




Alacrist said: How many of those are Million Sellers? And how much have they sold?
None. Pretty descent sale anyway. Personally I feel fine with the fact such great games are available for a PSP. I don't want millionsellers like Pokemon on PSP, I don't want dumb new reincarnation of Mario. This is good for girls and ladyboys. I'm the winner because psp brings what I want. God of War, Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, Soul Edge, Gran Turismo etc.

So far none of this Wii criticism actually makes any sense. Third parties are already having great Wii sale numbers. Ubisoft, EA and Activision are all having success with their titles that are actually worth buying. So far third parties are having more success with the Wii than the PS3 in NA and probably Europe too. It's still pretty much Nintendo in Japan only at the moment, but that will change in the future (eyes Dragon Quest Swords). And one last thing. Stop acting like it's a bad thing if the first party publisher makes amazing games. That gets a console sold. Right now it's the first party support thats causing the Wii to sweep Japan, which is exactly why big third party support will follow. Really, the Wii is just doing absurdly well right now. You can admit that without being a fanboy you know. P.S. kber81 - Nintendo is for girls and ladyboys is pretty trollish. Turn down the flame and turn up the love (and admit it, when it comes out, you're gonna feel the urge to get a DS to play touch the dead!)

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mkozlows said: 1. The PS3 and 360 are approximately similar hardware, such that a game developed for one of systems is easily ported to the other. But the Wii isn't like that; a game developed for the Wii can't be trivially ported from the PS3/360 version (note that no Wii ports of next-gen-only titles exist right now, for instance). ...
Not at all. Firstly, the Wii will *always* be easier to develop than either the 360 or PS3. Secondly, its a lot easier to scale a game "back" than scale it up (and end up with a decent title). Thirdly, all that PS2 dev tech is still around - its not like its been thrown out the window forever.
2. Right now, the Wii's getting a free ride due to the enduring success of the PS2. People knock the third-party Wii library for producing a lot of PS2 ports, but those only exist because the Wii is a trivial port target for PS2 games in the way that the PS3/360 are for each other. This is fine right now, while the PS2 is still a going concern, but two years from now, there won't be a PS2 to amortize development costs with.
Nope. What will happen is simple - since the Wii is *more* cost effective to develop for than either the 360 or PS3 - you put one, small dev team on Wii projects - and they develop new games based on existing engines, sequels or more. Sure, there may be less big-budget, mega-titles developed for the Wii - but this may not matter in the end.
3. The combination of the top two points means that the Wii has to earn its keep with third-party titles, and has to sell enough all by itself to make them worth it for publishers. But this is where those February numbers come in: First-party software for the Wii is MASSIVELY outselling third-party software right now, by a lot. It doesn't appear that Wii buyers are interested in bread-and-butter third-party titles. Which makes sense for two reasons: 1) A lot of Wii buyers are multi-platform owners, and if you have a choice between buying a game on the 360 (with next-gen graphics, HD support, online capability, achievements, etc.) or buying it on the Wii (prev-gen graphics, no HD, no real online), you're going to buy it on the 360; 2) People who are hardcore gamers mostly bought the Wii for the first-party franchises -- Mario, Zelda, Metroid -- while people who aren't traditional gamers (the alleged grandmas and girlfriends) just don't buy that many games, and are even less likely to buy Unreal 3 or GTA, even if they did exist on the Wii.
There is no doubt that this is generally true with all Nintendo platforms, but you are missing the point here. If the Wii becomes the dominant platform, sheer economics ensure a huge amount of 3rd platform support. Even the GC still maintained a large 3rd party development base (to this day), and the Wii is out-doing that several times over already. There have been several press releases about publishers shifting development resources TO the Wii (from the 360 / PS3) - not the other way around. The GC lost out because it was "stuck in the middle". The Wii carves out its own gaming niche, giving publishers extra reason to develop skews for the Wii (as it gives their games a whole different feel - for the most part).
4. The result of the top three means that third-party game support on the Wii is likely to be even worse than it was on the GameCube (which was a trivial port between the PS2 and Xbox), and more in line with the N64. ...
To date, this is completely wrong - and I think you'll find the pattern continues. The Wii will get the strongest 3rd-party support Nintendo has raked in since the SNES. The DS/Wii analogies all still hold. As long as Wii titles are cheaper to develop than 360 or PS3 skews, its almost certain that 3rd-party support will flourish. You guys here are looking at a *very* one-sided part of the equation. Unit sales are great and all... but also take into account: - profit per unit sold (i.e. manufacturing or other costs) - title development costs - general development costs (devkit costs, licensing, etc). There is also another *major* factor - marketing costs. Say you spend 20mill on development of a big brand title - this is usually matched by about the same amount of cash spend on marketing. When you do this, skews become even MORE important - as the additional development cost for an additional skew is almost irrelevant compared to the marketing budget. As a result, you almost *always* want to hit every platform that is available for you to hit. And for 3rd-party publishers, this will almost always include the Wii. Just watch what EA does over the next 12 months.

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