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Forums - Sales Discussion - Naughty Dog Co-founder, Console prices 'Out of Hand' except Nintendo

leo-j said:
dtewi said:
No Fractal, interest sell and gameplay keeps you gaming

Dont be a babling fool, every N fanboy says that graphics dont matter(I wouldnt play a game with stick figures for a fps..) graphcis matter as much as anything else in the game. Without the graphics it would be sticks walking around. So yes graphics and gameplay keep you playing.(If it wasnt for the nice graphics in folklore I wouldnt have kepts playing it)


I don't think graphics matter past a certain point.  I think visual appeal as a whole matter, but not technical power.  Yes, the technical power of a machine is there to allow different styles of art, but it shouldn't replace art, which I fear it's doing now.  I still prefer Okami to anything the PS3 or 360 have to offer in visuals.  Working within limitations and maximizing capabilities is what makes truly magnifficent looking games.  I think Nintendo has been doing that very well throughout their history in gaming, and with games like Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and SSBB, they are continuing to do so.



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Well I don't think he was approaching this as much as gamer as an accountant. The graphics obsession has pushed both video game costs and development costs high. The high cost of video games is limiting the number of people capable of buying more expensive to produce games. It doesn't take much business sense to realize that higher cost and lower potential sales are not a good business plan.

I think this is the first of many articles we'll be seeing like this as many developers begin to realize the PS360 cannot support all the $20 million mega games they are throwing on them. At some point something will have to give, either the number of games on those systems or their cost of development will have to drop.



Interesting points Albionus,

The economics for developing on the PS3 are definitely not ideal at the moment. I think a $20m development budget needs to see something like 500k units to be profitable to the developer. While this is very feasible for a high budget game (ie $20m), I think developers have to notice the more than double install base of the Wii and 360 and see a very large profit potential.

I think this is why a lot of developers go the 360/PS3 route. This is also why if/when the Wii is able to pass the 360/PS3 combined install base it will be next to impossible for developers to ignore its potential for profit. I think to a certain extent developers should already be realizing this if for no other reason than the decreased development costs for Wii games.

Thats not to say they should abandon PS3/360 projects however, diversity is a good thing..especially in this industry.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Fractal of Time said:
"I built Naughty Dog on graphics – Crash looked better than most other games at the time, and that’s what made people look at it."

People are interested in graphics that's what's he's saying.
Wow! what a good lookin game, that must be fun to play. And I think it's pretty often true. Low budget games are being made with older engine's Postal 3 for example on Source engine. Unreal Tournament will look much better. Gears of War is also a good example.

I don't think graphics keeps you playin. After awhile you get used to the stunning graphics. It doesn't mean graphics don't matter anymore. I think many won't play there last gen, when they have a next gen console.

Graphics are like a good cover on a comic or a magazine, or a good trailer for a film - they will get your interest, they may even get you to buy it, but the odds are good that it won't be satisfying unless there is something to back it up.



Fractal of Time said:
"I built Naughty Dog on graphics – Crash looked better than most other games at the time, and that’s what made people look at it."

People are interested in graphics that's what's he's saying.
Wow! what a good lookin game, that must be fun to play. And I think it's pretty often true. Low budget games are being made with older engine's Postal 3 for example on Source engine. Unreal Tournament will look much better. Gears of War is also a good example.

I don't think graphics keeps you playin. After awhile you get used to the stunning graphics. It doesn't mean graphics don't matter anymore. I think many won't play there last gen, when they have a next gen console.

Graphics are like a good cover on a comic or a magazine, or a good trailer for a film - they will get your interest, they may even get you to buy it, but the odds are good that it won't be satisfying unless there is something to back it up.



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Hes former ND person, nice spin with the thread title like always.





leo-j said:
dtewi said:
No Fractal, interest sell and gameplay keeps you gaming

Dont be a babling fool, every N fanboy says that graphics dont matter(I wouldnt play a game with stick figures for a fps..) graphcis matter as much as anything else in the game. Without the graphics it would be sticks walking around. So yes graphics and gameplay keep you playing.(If it wasnt for the nice graphics in folklore I wouldnt have kepts playing it)


Hey... leo-j... you may be on to something!  Honestly... what a novel idea??  A FPS with stick figures?  We should start a petiton...

 

And yes I'm being serious, that could be a really neat idea!



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leo-j said:
dtewi said:
No Fractal, interest sell and gameplay keeps you gaming

Dont be a babling fool, every N fanboy says that graphics dont matter(I wouldnt play a game with stick figures for a fps..) graphcis matter as much as anything else in the game. Without the graphics it would be sticks walking around. So yes graphics and gameplay keep you playing.(If it wasnt for the nice graphics in folklore I wouldnt have kepts playing it)


 I think dtewl's point is that graphics is just one way of generating interest. Wii Sports generated interest with motion controls. Halo 3 generated interest with a legendary franchise. For you, Folklore generated interest with graphics.

 After you grab the attention of the buyer with whatever gimmick you have at your disposal, you need a game which is actually fun to keep people playing. Eventually, even the shiniest graphics lose their lustre, but a well-designed game like Super Metroid, Punch Out, or Paper Mario can still be fun when you come back to it years later.

When you're playing Killzone 3 on your PS4 five years from now, are you going to go back and play Folklore again and have fun? Or are you going to plug it in and wonder what was so great about those graphics?



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Why must this same argument always break out. Gameplay dosn't matter, Graphics don't matter, story dosn't matter. Every game just has to give people a reason to play. People play Mario, because it is easy to understand, you can play at your own pace, and the chartictors are likeable. MGS is played by people how like a good story, want to get emotionally involed with a game. Sprots games are good, because people like the sport. Singstar, Buzz, Mario Party, etc. are good because they bring people together.

Fighting about Gameplay or graphics makeing a game is pointless. What makes a game is weather or not you are interested in it. For example my brother loves Football, so Madden is his favorite game. He bought Madden for the PS3 last week and has played it everyday since. He keeps on talking about how awsome the new features are and how great the gameplay is. I really am indifferant about football, so when I sat down and tryed it out I was like this is the same thing as last year, but they changed some of the stuff I like. He was like oh man they put this and this in so you can do this. So I hope you see my point. If people are not interested in a game it is kind of hard to have good gameplay or graphics. I mean to me MLB 2K7 looks great, but then again I love baseball, and my brother thinks madden looks better, but then again he likes Football. So their yet again even if Madden does look better in real life I like the look of baseball football just looks pale.

In conclusion games are about whatever a person wants them to be about. Their is no one way to make a game and garentee it is good. It all comes down to personal preferance. Weather or not the new Computer Entertainment devices are to expensive or not is a completly irrelevent to gameing. These systems are worth every pennie if you want to make life easy, but for those content on living the hard life they may be a little to spendy (I hope everyone gets that).



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Androo said:
PS1 was a lot weaker than the N64

I wish people would stop propogating this lie.  For the love of god, people, processor speed isn't the only thing that determines the power of a console!

Anyway, on the matter of the article itself... the guy is full of shit.  He even admits his entire career is based on (relatively) beautiful graphics and practically nothing more.  If that's not a sign to him that graphics matter, then I see no reason to listen to a word he says.  I wouldn't listen to a pro wrestler that said steroids were awful and to be avoided either (though I came to that conclusion on my own...) simply because I, apparently unlike some others, have a bullshit detector.  And it smelled this pile from as far away as a mile.

Gameplay matters, yes.  But it's not the ONLY thing that matters just as graphics aren't.  You need a balance of all things if you want to hit a wide market.  And as a console manufacturer I'd want to hit the biggest market possible.  A differing trend for a single year doesn't change the game, it just point out that you need your scales to be balanced if you want to put on a good show.  Really, I'd be ashamed if I were him for assuming that the Wii players are the same group of people as the PS2 players. 



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