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Forums - Gaming Discussion - About classic Tomb Raider games

So I never played any Tomb Raider games back in the 90s, even though they were familiar to me through gaming magazines. It just didn't interest me. Things have changed nowadays and I got myself the Tomb Raider I-III collection a couple of weeks ago. And now I played the first game for an hour, so here's my impression:

Holy cow, these controls are disgusting! This remaster collection features tank controls and modern controls as a variation, but both suck hard in my opinion. Jump mechanics are shit, swim mechanics are even worse, shooting is terribly imprecise, moving and shooting is possible but hitting anything when doing that barely works without taking a few hits. Probably the biggest issue for the controls is the level architecture and the frustrating platforming. In a good game both should work in tandem and complement each other, however, here it feels like the biggest enemy are not wolfs and bears but the game designers.

How on earth did this game become so popular? And most importantly, will it get any better? Maybe it has a slow start and become good at some point, I don't know. So far, it feels terribly boring and frustrating to play. Are the other two games the same?

Last edited by GoOnKid - 5 days ago

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I can imagine it is hard to get into if you didn't play it when it first came out. We kinda just got along with the controls. Remember that there weren't analog sticks back then. On PC we played Tomb Raider solely with the keyboard, no mouse needed.

I grew up with the controls and I actually love them. Sure, it's clunky, but it enables a movement that is a lot more precise than in most modern games. It's kinda hard to describe. But for example the modern Tomb Raider games feel washy in comparison. I never know where Lara will stop or which ledge she will grab automatically or something. In the old titles she does exactly what I tell her. Not more and not less.

I don't know if you can get into the controls in this day and age. But once you do, the games are in my opinion some of the best ever made. Even the weaker entries like 3 and 5 are a hell lot of fun in my opinion. They simply don't make games like that anymore. It's just you and the game, no bullshit quest markers, hints all over the place or something.

So if I were you, I wouldn't try too hard. If it's not fun, that's ok and I can't promise you that you will get rewarded when you keep trying. Oh, I also wouldn't even try to play with modern controls. I imagine some of the harder jumps are kinda impossible if you can't line Lara up perfectly.



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The controls were really bad back then too but that ends up kind of being the point, settling up jumps was all the fun of this game, once you realize it is a grid based game and once you notice where the grids are and what the rules are with jumping between differently spaced squares in the environment it becomes really quite fun and some of the pizzles, mianly in the later stages of each game and particularly the ones in tomb raider 3 are fantastically designed, some of the best in gaming and they really don't make them like this anymore but, yeah, you're never going to be hopping around like a speed runner, I don't even get how those people can get the pace of the game going that smooth. I was surprised by how fast I fell off the remaster, I used to love these games and beating them felt like the biggest accomplishment after months of trial and error but hmm, they just don't hold up cause of the controls and there is no way they can modernise it without ruining the core basis of the platforming system, any slight alterations and it doesn't work, even the camera gets screwed up but it also becomes completely unfun so you have to take the pain to get the fun unfortunately. (Not to mention it'll make some jumps a LOT more difficult, especially jump where you have to grab onto the ledge of 4th square)

And YES. To answer your question, Tomb raider 1 is by far the easiest of the three, not just easier puzzles but all the platforming is as easy as it's going to get, some of the levels in the later games try to add in more detail like a jungle level in Tomb raider 3 early on for example that hides the grids too much and it becomes ten times more frustrating, not to mention the enemies get so hard you need luck and there are some points that WILL make you drop the game for a time if not give up, a claustrophobic dark water under water level in the second game for example that is so hard to navigate and causes such stress (Tomb raider 3 starts you in motion on a slipe to prove the point that this is going to be so much more difficult that the last 2 games and you will die again and again) that I would advice now, if you find Tomb raider 1 to be too much and you expect these games to get easier or beat then without rage then give up now. These are like Dark Souls if in Dark Souls the bosses had such diverse movesets that they have no readable patterns and you had to attack them in very specific ways to damage them.

Last edited by LegitHyperbole - 5 days ago

OdinHades said:

I can imagine it is hard to get into if you didn't play it when it first came out. We kinda just got along with the controls. Remember that there weren't analog sticks back then. On PC we played Tomb Raider solely with the keyboard, no mouse needed.

I grew up with the controls and I actually love them. Sure, it's clunky, but it enables a movement that is a lot more precise than in most modern games. It's kinda hard to describe. But for example the modern Tomb Raider games feel washy in comparison. I never know where Lara will stop or which ledge she will grab automatically or something. In the old titles she does exactly what I tell her. Not more and not less.

I don't know if you can get into the controls in this day and age. But once you do, the games are in my opinion some of the best ever made. Even the weaker entries like 3 and 5 are a hell lot of fun in my opinion. They simply don't make games like that anymore. It's just you and the game, no bullshit quest markers, hints all over the place or something.

So if I were you, I wouldn't try too hard. If it's not fun, that's ok and I can't promise you that you will get rewarded when you keep trying. Oh, I also wouldn't even try to play with modern controls. I imagine some of the harder jumps are kinda impossible if you can't line Lara up perfectly.

I did play it back in the day. I couldn't stand the controls then. Tomb Raider also came out after Super Mario 64 and its analog controls did. Since I played SM64 before Tomb Raider, that made it even worse, trying to deal with the grid/tank controls after Mario's relatively precise movement and jumping. I couldn't understand what people saw in those games back then except maybe T&A. 



LegitHyperbole said:

once you realize it is a grid based game and once you notice where the grids are and what the rules are with jumping between differently spaced squares in the environment it becomes really quite fun

This pretty much. The controls are perfect for the way the game is designed, and how you're supposed to navigate jumps / the levels. Once you get to grips with how everything works, it should get easier.

Combat can often be about the learning the layout of the levels, finding safe places to shoot from where the enemy can't reach you, or in the case of enemies with guns (mainly in TR2), manipulating the mechanics of the game so that the enemies find it difficult to hit you. As for shooting being imprecise - if Lara locks on to an enemy and you hold down shoot, then she will stay locked on, even if the enemy disappears from view. Then whenever the enemy reappears, she will shoot at it (and pretty much every shot will hit the enemy).

Of course, I say this as someone who has played them constantly since release, and has the controls engrained in my mind. I can appreciate it might be more difficult for someone starting them for the first time recently.



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I definitely appreciate your point. If you were hoping for something with the fluidity of Super Mario 64, you are going to be beside yourself with disappointment.

Tomb Raider is just a different beast. Like a few other posters here, I actually sort of love the controls and level designs. There’s a very deliberate, puzzle-solving aspect to the platforming. When you line up that long jump perfectly and JUST grab the next ledge with your fingertips, it feels amazing. But it’s certainly not for everyone.

I actually rank the original trilogy 1>2>3, so if you’re unhappy with 1, I think you should probably bail now. The sequels are harder, with more traps and difficulty spikes.



Tomb Raider 1 is my favorite because it feels like a 3D incarnation of the original Prince of Persia.
As some mentioned, the controls are actually super precise compared to modern games. All tiled based. The level design itself is a puzzle, it's all about taking your time and finding how to get through the challenges. Personally I feel those controls are perfect for the design of this game, you just need to rewire your brain to how it works. The fun is the reward for getting through those levels! The action is totally secondary.

I personally can't stand the modern games for this reason because they're mindless action and all moves are very automatized.



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The modern controls are supposed to be better, but they are actually even worse because they redirect your guns while you are trying to dodge enemies, making it very hard to hit them consistently. Platforming isn't made easier by the modern controls either, the only benefit you really get from them is when you are doing nothing more than running around. So your best option is to accept that you need to get used to the clunky tank controls.

The first five games were made like that and it wasn't really until the sixth game (the first one on the PS2) that heavy criticism followed because Lara Croft didn't make a proper jump to the next generation back then. This is what triggered the decision for the first reboot of the series which baked in Ubisoft's Prince of Persia platforming from the Sands of Time trilogy along with modern controls. Tomb Raider Legend and onwards is when things got legitimately good. Lara Croft's early era is much like the original Crash Bandicoot game on the PS1: A lot of hype and fandom, but utterly mediocre with plenty of bad control and level design decisions that undo the good moments.

I played the first Tomb Raider before I had ever touched an N64 game. Even before the revelation of Super Mario 64, Tomb Raider felt like garbage. Its draw was that it was among the first 3D action-adventure games, but moreso than that, it had Lara Croft who became more popular than the games themselves.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

OdinHades said:

I can imagine it is hard to get into if you didn't play it when it first came out. We kinda just got along with the controls. Remember that there weren't analog sticks back then. On PC we played Tomb Raider solely with the keyboard, no mouse needed.

I grew up with the controls and I actually love them. Sure, it's clunky, but it enables a movement that is a lot more precise than in most modern games. It's kinda hard to describe. But for example the modern Tomb Raider games feel washy in comparison. I never know where Lara will stop or which ledge she will grab automatically or something. In the old titles she does exactly what I tell her. Not more and not less.

I don't know if you can get into the controls in this day and age. But once you do, the games are in my opinion some of the best ever made. Even the weaker entries like 3 and 5 are a hell lot of fun in my opinion. They simply don't make games like that anymore. It's just you and the game, no bullshit quest markers, hints all over the place or something.

So if I were you, I wouldn't try too hard. If it's not fun, that's ok and I can't promise you that you will get rewarded when you keep trying. Oh, I also wouldn't even try to play with modern controls. I imagine some of the harder jumps are kinda impossible if you can't line Lara up perfectly.

It's the same with Resident Evil 1-3. They were masterpieces that garnered critical acclaim, everyone gushed over, and no one complained about... until suddenly, ten or twenty years later, they're the worst games of all time because omg, I'm not able to control them etc.

I think games should be judged against their own times, not current times.



The controls and level design compliment each other perfectly.

It all comes down to learning sequences for the harder platforming sections, and it's all deterministic. Press shift, count the steps backward to line up a perfect running jump and simply enter the sequence step by step. It works better with digital controls, best on PC. It's a digital control scheme for grid based level design. It's a puzzle game through and through. Then you can add style with hand stands etc, turning it into Olympic gymnastic routines lol.

The combat is just a little break in the real game play, navigation, the opposite of modern tombraider games where platforming is just a distraction from the mass murder. Btw I had no issue shooting while jumping / summer saulting around. You get used to it.

The trailing camera of TR1 is still my favorite as well, not immediately seeing what's around the corner, not being able to peek around the corner kept the tension high. What if there's a bear around the corner... A friend watching me play lost his drink from the resulting jump scares lol.

The best was studying the level and coming up with a path to whatever collectible or item you want. No hints, no paint/scratch marks, you see this thing and have to figure out how to string together a path to it. Total opposite of today's games. If you don't make a jump in the early tomb raider games you can see why and fix it or find a different path. Nailing a jump sequence feels great. In the new games it's all just given to you, no sense of achievement navigating the levels.