Forums - Politics Discussion - Attitudes 100 years since women's suffrage

I'm probably committing social suicide by dedicating a whole topic to women's issues on an otherwise all-male board, but oh well.

The right of women to vote was enshrined in the U.S. Constitution a century ago this year. (Specifically as of August 26th.) A century later, 64% of American women believe the U.S. hasn't gone far enough in the way of securing equal rights for women and 61% describe themselves as feminists. What's more, about half of American men seem to agree with the first view (as you can see at the first link.)

A majority of both women and men who believe that more needs to be done to advance equal treatment for women identify the following items as major obstacles thereto:

-Sexual harassment.
-Unequal legal rights.
-Different expectations society has for women and men.
-Not enough women in positions of power.
-Additionally, nearly half of women also identify family responsibilities as a major obstacle.

Overwhelming majorities of both women and men (82% of 73% respectively) today favor ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment to the U.S. Constitution banning discrimination on the basis of sex.

(See the first link above for this data and more.)

So what say you? Are women here in the U.S. or wherever you live treated equally in your view? Is there more work to do? Or...*sighs*...as I suspect may be a common opinion here on a practically all-male forum...is it your view that women are really just generally lazier, treated better than men, and simply too sensitive?

Let's see if we can have a productive discussion of this topic. Probably not (another thread of mine that's almost certain to get closed ), but just thought I'd try and see if we could get somewhere. Just in case I wasn't controversial enough already!

Last edited by Jaicee - on 31 August 2020

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Stereotypically assuming, because this site is dominated by men, that we would be sexist is, itself, sexist against men. Not the best start. May want to change the language of the OP.

Secondly, based on my years of experience, this site is significantly left leaning politically, or at least the ones generally commenting are, and lefties are more 3rd wave feminism supporters.

Which brings me to my third point. Feminism, stages 1/2, are basically supported by the mass (rights for women to vote and rights for women to get paid equally), but third wave (women should be able to murder babies in their womb), and fourth wave (all white women are evil, only minorities should gain more) are the two that many disagree with. I don't know any conservatives that don't agree with 1st and 2nd wave feminism, but plenty that disagree with 3rd and 4th. I'd recommend expanding on what you mean by feminism in the OP to avoid confusion.



Fixing women's issues is too much micro management for me. The root of all discrimination issues in social settings is genderism, so that's what we should tackle instead of just treating symptoms. The goal shouldn't be to treat two distinct groups the same, but to accept that the groups aren't distinct and have equality by default. True gender equality will only arrive if we remove genders, starting with by not identifying as a specific gender.



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Jaicee said:

I'm probably committing social suicide by dedicating a whole topic to women's issues on an otherwise all-male board, but oh well.

Sure, go on commit social suicide. (^_^)

Ah well, my opinion (and just my opinion) is, that there is undoubtely a lot of progress over ... say the last 100 years... but there is still some discrimination left.

I would point to wage inequality. This is a complicated topic, and true, women usually choose jobs that pay less. But I would argue it is actually the other way around: these jobs are paid less, because they are more often chosen by women.

Simple example: I am a software developer, a typical male job (although I have female coworkers, but still the majority in this job are male). Software developers get paid well. But how important is my job really? I worked on a website that displays the usage of renewable energy in a german state, an application which helps visualize migration data inside a city or software to help edit and distribute metadata for geographical data according to a european guideline. I don't think what I do is majorly impacting anyones life.Yes, it may important for the ones paying for the projects, but the overall impact on society is small. If I hadn't worked this year, nobody would've noticed really.

Do other jobs have more impact? How much would you notice if the nurses stop working? Or a kindergarden teacher? Both jobs that are more often picked by women. Both jobs that usually pay less than a software developer.

I really think we have to rethink wages for some of our most needed workers. And yes, I think this discrepancy in pay and importance has to do with the fact which gender tends to choose these jobs.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 31 August 2020

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Dulfite said:
Which brings me to my third point. Feminism, stages 1/2, are basically supported by the mass (rights for women to vote and rights for women to get paid equally), but third wave (women should be able to murder babies in their womb), and fourth wave (all white women are evil, only minorities should gain more) are the two that many disagree with.

Really? I understand you have an opinion on abortion. But you really needed this sort of inflaming language to express your opinion?



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I think that we overestimate how far we have come. I am starting to see things phrases like "better than the 80s" and so forth (in the 80s it was "better than the 60s", by the way). On top of that we tend to compare the past with now - we forget that 100 years ago both men and women's lives were much harder (men were down mines or in factories or in the fields). So I don't think that the relative gap between men and women has closed as much as we like to pretend...

It's important to note that feminism isn't a new thing, you can even identify some female Shakespeare characters as expressing "feminists ideas". Unless you think that love is a modern invention, husbands will have presumably supported their wives' wishes, and fathers their daughters' wishes, throughout history.

It's just what we consider to be the desirable goal these days has changed: "go out, get a job, and earn money". Probably in 100 years' time we'll see that goal as exploitative as "build a happy home with your family"...



I still can't believe that Hillary Clinton, a white woman, lost the white women vote four years ago- to Trump of all people.

Now I don't believe that people should vote for someone just because they are part of the same demographic but I still can't believe that women did not want to see another woman ascend to the highest office in the land.

100 years after the passage of the 19th amendment maybe we can elect a female vice president.

I just can't believe so many Women for Trump overlooked his blatant misogyny and voted against their own interests. There were women who held up signs saying "Trump Can Grab My Pussy Whenever He Wants".

Human beings can be so irrational.



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Mnementh said:
Dulfite said:
Which brings me to my third point. Feminism, stages 1/2, are basically supported by the mass (rights for women to vote and rights for women to get paid equally), but third wave (women should be able to murder babies in their womb), and fourth wave (all white women are evil, only minorities should gain more) are the two that many disagree with.

Really? I understand you have an opinion on abortion. But you really needed this sort of inflaming language to express your opinion?

Expecting someone to casually label something they view as a evil beyond comprehension is unrealistic. Roughly 60 millions babies, little humans, the most vulnerable category of mankind, have been legally murdered since the courts decided a woman's inconvenience is more important than life itself. 60 million. No amount of squirming away from the needle, as has been shown in countless videos that those innocent babies try to do, will save them. No amount of kicking their mommies organs, or giggling, or hiccuping will protect them from the wrath of someone that made a choice to have sex (and those are the vast majority of abortions). I'm inflamed, as are millions of others. Are we not supposed to be inflamed by mass injustice? 



Jaicee said:


-Unequal legal rights.

Which ones are those?
I live in denmark, and I dont think women have any unqual legal rights issues here.
Hell I'd argue the law often favors women over men, esp in terms of disputes (like marriage/devorce ect).

Jaicee said:


-Not enough women in positions of power.


Our current Prime minster is a woman. The last one from the same party was also a woman.
If you go back like 5-6 prime minsters its like split 50/50.
Our minister posts are the same, there basically also 50% women.

Jaicee said:

-Different expectations society has for women and men.

The man works to provide, and the woman races the family.
In denmark because of our social security net, child care, and schooling ect are all taken care off.
This means alot of women are actually in the work force (compaired to most other countries).
Why not? Why shouldn't women work too? So I'm all for this.  

I'm not sure if Im reading wiki right or not, but it says ~71% of women are in the labor work force (ie. if they want to work, they can and are).
We re ranked like 5th in the world on equality for women though.

Infact I'd say we have the other issue.
If a women is better educated or has a higher paying job, the issue is "stay at home dad" raiseing the family.
You'll probably still get a few odd looks as a stay at home dad.

Jaicee said:

I'm probably committing social suicide by dedicating a whole topic to women's issues on an otherwise all-male board, but oh well.

The first sentience of your post OP, is pretty sexist.

Jaicee said:

So what say you? Are women here in the U.S. or wherever you live treated equally in your view? Is there more work to do? Or...*sighs*...as I suspect may be a common opinion here on a practically all-male forum...is it your view that women are really just generally lazier, treated better than men, and simply too sensitive?

Let's see if we can have a productive discussion of this topic. Probably not (another thread of mine that's almost certain to get closed ), but just thought I'd try and see if we could get somewhere. Just in case I wasn't controversial enough already!

Again this is demeaning and sexist by you, makeing assumptions like this based on gender.

Why would women in general just be lazier?
Treated better than men? probably, I dont think its harder to be a women in denmark than it is to be a man.
Are women simply too sentsitive? nah, I'm all for gender equality, its only right if you don't have it in the US, you fight for it.

"Let's see if we can have a productive discussion of this topic. Probably not "

This isnt productive, thats a counter productive attirtude for a propper discussion on the matter.
Infact havn't you dont a few threads like this before? did you try to discuss the matter openly there? Did you start off such discussions with the same outlook?
Like if you want a real discussion, makeing generalisations that are unfair about people, isnt the best of starts.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 31 August 2020