Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Last of Us Part 2 has become a minefield

Polygon has written an opinion piece called 'The Last of Us Part 2 has become a minefield':

https://www.polygon.com/2020/6/30/21307200/the-last-of-us-2-controversy-critics-press-naughty-dog-vice-review-leak-sony-ps4-playstation

It is about, that it became exhausting for a video game critic to do their job around that game, because everything incites a harsh reaction, shitstorms, the developers going into it and so on.

But actually I think the points made are valid even beyond looking at that one game. If we see video games as art (and I certainly do), than we have to accept that good constructive criticism is important to mature as a medium. Professional criticism helped movies to mature into a serious medium that nowadays is widely accepted as a form of art. Video games aren't widely accepted as art. We need a culture of professional criticism, to push the medium forward.

I will cite two sentences that I think are most important. And I cite them out of order, because I think this way it is better:

"It’s not enough that the game is selling well, and that most reviews are positive; you can’t fall out of line with that general consensus, even as a joke, without having to worry about whether or not a publisher will be looking over your shoulder, or if hundreds of fans will blow up your social media."

"If we’re truly taking the game seriously, nuanced and critical conversations aren’t just necessary — they need to happen without fear that you’ll be perceived as a bully or enemy."

This is true, even beyond one single game, but in general.

What do you guys think?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

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It is their story and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, they don't owe us anything, we are only passengers. Personally I loved how shocking and intriguing and moving it was. Haters can make their own game and see how successful it is, good luck, you will need it, oh and millions of $$ too.



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Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

m0ney said:

It is their story and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, they don't owe us anything, we are only passengers. Personally I loved how shocking and intriguing and moving it was. Haters can make their own game and see how successful it is, good luck, you will need it, oh and millions of $$ too.

Nice post... but what has it to do with the topic of the thread or the linked article?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Mnementh said:

[OP intro]

"It’s not enough that the game is selling well, and that most reviews are positive; you can’t fall out of line with that general consensus, even as a joke, without having to worry about whether or not a publisher will be looking over your shoulder, or if hundreds of fans will blow up your social media."

"If we’re truly taking the game seriously, nuanced and critical conversations aren’t just necessary — they need to happen without fear that you’ll be perceived as a bully or enemy."

This is true, even beyond one single game, but in general.

What do you guys think?

I believe that this citation sums up the whole problem. After reading the article, truly those two paragraphs stood out to me too. And the problem is everywhere, people are not free to give their honest critical opinion about games or consoles without getting branded anything from a bigot to "a petty fool", and it's getting ugly.

My hope is that people realize this bad aura and help it stop.



Mnementh said:
m0ney said:

It is their story and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, they don't owe us anything, we are only passengers. Personally I loved how shocking and intriguing and moving it was. Haters can make their own game and see how successful it is, good luck, you will need it, oh and millions of $$ too.

Nice post... but what has it to do with the topic of the thread or the linked article?

I think he was providing us with a good example of this quote-- "... except for the fact that merely discussing the game has become, within large swaths of the video game community, toxic."

Very generous and timely of him.



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Mnementh said:

Nice post... but what has it to do with the topic of the thread or the linked article?

Everything?



Visit my eBay stampers store: eims-stampers

Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

Everyone IRL knows me as the videogame guy. They keep asking me about that Last of Us game. I keep explaining to them that TLoU2 took a Game of Thrones Seasons 1-4 approach with its characters and some people are angry. They are all like.. But that's good storytelling. My boss at work specifically guessed that people got angry because you can't have two good guy characters. He said something about the duality of man being on display. Way too many gamers are salty immature complainers.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

 

m0ney said:
Mnementh said:

Nice post... but what has it to do with the topic of the thread or the linked article?

Everything?

This thread isn't about the quality or lack thereof of the game, but about an environment in which real discussion besides uncritically fawning over the game or ruthless destruction is met with paranoia and defensive behaviour. This is not a healty environment to develop the medium further. But you made your post all about the qualities of the game and putting everyone expressing even mild criticism into the box 'haters'. Which ironically proves the point of the article.

To change the direction: Do you think Jason Schreier got that much pushback over pretty unproblematic tweets because he uncovered earlier the bad working conditions of Naughty Dog employees (which sadly isn't that uncommon in the industry), or do you think that is purely coincidental?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

m0ney said:

It is their story and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, they don't owe us anything, we are only passengers. Personally I loved how shocking and intriguing and moving it was. Haters can make their own game and see how successful it is, good luck, you will need it, oh and millions of $$ too.

True. They don't owe their audience anything. The same is true in reverse, however. The audience doesn't owe them any specific reaction to their work. They can love it, hate it, be indifferent to it, or anything in between, and all of those reactions perfectly valid. It was Druckmann himself who said the game would be divisive, and so it has proven to be. Now, he, ND, and everyone else who has a particularly strong opinion on the matter has to live with that fact, and be able to handle it in a way befitting adults. People need to be able to have an intellectually honest discussion around their work, and around any work for that matter, without it instantly devolving into name calling, shaming, belittling, or otherwise dismissing views not their own without any kind of regard for their potential validity. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
Everyone IRL knows me as the videogame guy. They keep asking me about that Last of Us game. I keep explaining to them that TLoU2 took a Game of Thrones Seasons 1-4 approach with its characters and some people are angry. They are all like.. But that's good storytelling. My boss at work specifically guessed that people got angry because you can't have two good guy characters. He said something about the duality of man being on display. Way too many gamers are salty immature complainers.

@bold. Don't you think that not everybody is complaining for nothing, that some people might have an actual issue with the game? Whether they're right or wrong can be discussed, no problem, but why propagate this bad vibe by saying that too many gamers are complaining for nothing?

Here, let's try something. Are movie-goers salty, immature complainers? You know that people were not upset with GoT 1-4 but rather season 8. You know that people were upset about Star Wars LTJ. Were those complaints also salty and immature?

That, to me, is the issue. To demonize all criticism as if it was a sin, to me it's wrong.