Forums - Sony Discussion - Why we cannot compare PS5 and Xbox series X directly, EDIT : add Resident Evil 3 remake and DOOM Eternal that run better on PS4 Pro as an example, also add EX- Crytek Developer and programer testimon

DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

Ah, I see. Didn't know how difficult that was for them.

Well it is quite complex, the game would be like the whole map is a single one, a lot of techniques needed to achieve something that ambitious

https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/23/17263016/god-of-war-playstation-4-camera-single-shot

To me this wasn't a particularly interesting concept. It's better than having the camera cut in and out, but not to the point that I'd like the developers to have to spend significant time and effort problem solving on this when they could be doing something else. I barely ever though of the one-cut approach. Granted even if you don't think about it, it still affects you. But the main problem I think is that God of War's story and scenarios just generally weren't interesting enough for me to warrant this. It's a leap above the older game and step in the right direction, but still not even close imo. Except for the random banter between characters in between objectives. That was consistently well done.

Anyway, they won't have to worry about problem solving for this with PS5's SSD technique, so they might as well continue with this approach now.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 March 2020

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LudicrousSpeed said:

I’ll bump in a few years when I’ve been proven right, the SSD in the PS5 has not lead to any revolution in gaming. 

Hell we don’t even know how the XVA is going to affect XSX games. Could result in similar game design 😆

My understanding is XVA is built with the same game design vision in mind. Sony went over the top with it. Maybe their 1st party studios do something revolutionizing with that extra SSD speed but I doubt it.



Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

Well it is quite complex, the game would be like the whole map is a single one, a lot of techniques needed to achieve something that ambitious

https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/23/17263016/god-of-war-playstation-4-camera-single-shot

To me this wasn't a particularly interesting concept. It's better than having the camera cut in and out, but not to the point that I'd like the developers to have to spend significant time and effort problem solving on this when they could be doing something else. I barely ever though of the one-cut approach. Granted even if you don't think about it, it still affects you. But the main problem I think is that God of War's story and scenarios just generally weren't interesting enough for me to warrant this. It's a leap above the older game and step in the right direction, but still not even close imo. Except for the random banter between characters in between objectives. That was consistently well done.

Anyway, they won't have to worry about problem solving for this with PS5's SSD technique, so they might as well continue with this approach now.

I would say it is something you don`t directly notice but greatly improves your enjoyment of the game. Just like TLOU was so well made on the load time management with it loading what came next using the transitions that you barely noticed the loading the first time you are enjoying the game. Some stuff of the creativity and tricks may be lost with this new concept.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

LudicrousSpeed said:

Here’s how the SSD will affect a vast majority of games: they’ll load in, for example, 5 seconds on PS5, and 8 or 9 seconds on XSX. Dat secret sauce 

I’ll bump in a few years when I’ve been proven right, the SSD in the PS5 has not lead to any revolution in gaming. 

Seems like you didn't even read the OP, because it uses a post just like yours as an example:

This technology can eliminate this problem where developers have to load assets in and out based on the players field of view.

Don't have to separate the room into two with a wall and a doorway just because you'd be able to "see too much" otherwise. Don't have to place a building or wall in a specific spot just to block out the view of something else. Don't have to add a staircase and a second floor just so the next area can load in time.

Don't have to lower the resolution or texture detail of objects when it becomes too taxing, etc.



DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

To me this wasn't a particularly interesting concept. It's better than having the camera cut in and out, but not to the point that I'd like the developers to have to spend significant time and effort problem solving on this when they could be doing something else. I barely ever though of the one-cut approach. Granted even if you don't think about it, it still affects you. But the main problem I think is that God of War's story and scenarios just generally weren't interesting enough for me to warrant this. It's a leap above the older game and step in the right direction, but still not even close imo. Except for the random banter between characters in between objectives. That was consistently well done.

Anyway, they won't have to worry about problem solving for this with PS5's SSD technique, so they might as well continue with this approach now.

I would say it is something you don`t directly notice but greatly improves your enjoyment of the game. Just like TLOU was so well made on the load time management with it loading what came next using the transitions that you barely noticed the loading the first time you are enjoying the game. Some stuff of the creativity and tricks may be lost with this new concept.

I don't feel like it greatly improved it for me, but the risk with this approach is that you can paint yourself into a corner if you run into issues.
What I do think would greatly enhance my experience was for example more work on the UI (when you get a new skill, the game asks you if you want to equip it but didn't show what you had on before. Doesn't let you test it, only shows a demo video playing), better world building (there was plenty of lore, but very few characters you interact with), more focus on the writing (seems like it was presented a lot better than it was written.)

Improving these things don't pose any similar risks if they run into issues. And for me at least, I would have much preferred dev time went into some other things. The Chaos Blades for example were apparently added in almost last minute.



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Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

I would say it is something you don`t directly notice but greatly improves your enjoyment of the game. Just like TLOU was so well made on the load time management with it loading what came next using the transitions that you barely noticed the loading the first time you are enjoying the game. Some stuff of the creativity and tricks may be lost with this new concept.

I don't feel like it greatly improved it for me, but the risk with this approach is that you can paint yourself into a corner if you run into issues.
What I do think would greatly enhance my experience was for example more work on the UI (when you get a new skill, the game asks you if you want to equip it but didn't show what you had on before. Doesn't let you test it, only shows a demo video playing), better world building (there was plenty of lore, but very few characters you interact with), more focus on the writing (seems like it was presented a lot better than it was written.)

Improving these things don't pose any similar risks if they run into issues. And for me at least, I would have much preferred dev time went into some other things. The Chaos Blades for example were apparently added in almost last minute.

Those are more of design choices, like they could have done all you asked without changing the one shot or anything else really. They just either didn`t imagine or didn`t care to implement.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Can you imagine the next modern warfare on those systems? Its currently at +- 170gb
+ OS room sounds like maybe 3-4 games on the internal storage



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DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

I don't feel like it greatly improved it for me, but the risk with this approach is that you can paint yourself into a corner if you run into issues.
What I do think would greatly enhance my experience was for example more work on the UI (when you get a new skill, the game asks you if you want to equip it but didn't show what you had on before. Doesn't let you test it, only shows a demo video playing), better world building (there was plenty of lore, but very few characters you interact with), more focus on the writing (seems like it was presented a lot better than it was written.)

Improving these things don't pose any similar risks if they run into issues. And for me at least, I would have much preferred dev time went into some other things. The Chaos Blades for example were apparently added in almost last minute.

Those are more of design choices, like they could have done all you asked without changing the one shot or anything else really. They just either didn`t imagine or didn`t care to implement.

Well it's all about resource management, because as we saw in Making Kratos, they were on a tight schedule, and in spite of a delay they were still working on the game right up until the last minute before it went gold. The more time and people you devote to a task, the more you can polish and come up with new ideas.

Chaos Blades almost didn't make it in. If they had less people working on the one-cut approach, they could have more people working on combat. Or on the world building aspects of the game, etc.
Hard to say as an outsider which aspects they felt they needed the most resources for, but it's natural to have ideas that didn't have time to be implemented, or you didn't think of until after the game went gold.

Due to how complicated the one-cut approach is, I would rather assign people to work on more important aspects.
But for PS5, it's apparently going to be simple, so it won't take up as much time and resources to do.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 March 2020

OK guys another example is Resident Evil 3 Remake this games run slightly better resolution but worse frame rates on One X but run almost 60 fps on PS4 Pro with lower resolution the One X. Remember on paper both One X has 45 % advantage in terms FLOP ( plus One X has better memory setupand with UHD 4k). This is just shows in reality both machine has some thread off , some aspect can be run better some aspect can be run bad, they have plus and minus. Comparing PS5 and Series X will be even harder and imposible both even far closer than PS4 and Xbox One (41 %), and with both can produce native 4k and run VRS i believe both will run the same .



DonFerrari said:

Mark Cerny and Digital Foundry explained it, it isn`t a temporary boost. It is the regular use of the GPU and CPU, either of them can be kept to the maximum frequency all the time, sure he don`t say both would be at the same time, and that is where the change in frequency comes for one going down (few %) for the other to go the maximum.

Not only both of you are satisfied but also expect shift on how games are made when leveraging the SSD advantages.

Sony specifically mentioned AMD's Smart Shift technology.
I have a notebook that leverages similar technology.

Basically if the demand for the CPU or GPU is lesser... Then the other can clock up to it's maximum as it has the TDP available.

It cannot maintain both the CPU and GPU at maximum clocks indefinitely, otherwise it's not a "boost mode" at all and Sony shouldn't have even bothered to mention it.



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