Forums - Sony Discussion - Why we cannot compare PS5 and Xbox series X directly, EDIT : add Resident Evil 3 remake and DOOM Eternal that run better on PS4 Pro as an example, also add EX- Crytek Developer and programer testimon

agreed, when i play tomb raider on pc or ps4 makes a huge difference in loading times, same for older games like skyrim etc



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LudicrousSpeed said:
Zoombael said:

Even after 1h presentation in GDC format it's still a mysterious secret to some. Astonishing.

Some of you are taking the “secret” in secret sauce a little too literally. Like Bic Mac secret sauce or the Xbone eSRAM, and now PS5 SSD, we know what the secret sauce is. We just know it won’t make much of any difference.

Lets say some users wildest hopes and dreams are true and this revolutionizes the way games are designed. Why would devs utilize it and then have to redesign those same games entirely to work on XSX, Xbone, PS4, and PC? And you’ll still have bottlenecks anyway. Also the XSX also has a SSD in it. Not as fast, but it’s there. 

Here’s how the SSD will affect a vast majority of games: they’ll load in, for example, 5 seconds on PS5, and 8 or 9 seconds on XSX. Dat secret sauce 

Also, of course first party devs will utilize their own hardware better than others, that’s always the case. But to the extent people have been predicting design will change, lol, not even close.

Im waiting for Sony to show the real game changers from PS4. How does BC enhancements work, what’s new with the controller, how does the UI work, how do upgrades to last gen games work, what’s new for PS+ and Now, where is the GamePass answer, will resume/suspend work like Xbone, any hope for PS/2/3 BC, etc before I’m hyped. Lightning fast loads are amazing but not a revolution imho.

We'll see what happens with multiplatform games, but they could potentially do things with their 1st party exclusives that wouldn't work on Series X. Imo it's a smart move to bank on exotic tech like Sony's doing. I mean Series X is a beast right now, but once AMD and Nvidia's new gpu's hit the market, both gpu's in these consoles will already be dated. The SSD tech is different as it's proprietary tech that's completely unlike anything we're seeing on pc today. I also love the whole 3 audio thing. Not exactly sure what Series X will be using but I tell you this, 3D audio in PSVR is a helluva lot more immersive than Dolby Atmos for heaphones on pc.  

Last edited by goopy20 - on 20 March 2020

fauzman said:
Hiku said:

What single shot technique is that?

And yeah, devs not having to pull their hair out figuring out workarounds due to design limitations should save valuable time, while giving us something closer to what the devs envisioned instead.
Aside from saving time, there's also saving space on the Blu Ray/SSD. Cerny gave an example of how a mailbox assets was repeated I think 40 times on the harddrive for Spiderman, because it takes too long to search the drive for it. The system must be ready to find that data at all times to load it in fast. This takes up unnecessary space on the Blu-Ray/HDD, but that shouldn't be an issue with either PS5 or XSX.

I am referring to the fact that they did the entire game in a single extended shot without any cuts. 

Ah, I see. Didn't know how difficult that was for them.



Hiku said:
fauzman said:

I am referring to the fact that they did the entire game in a single extended shot without any cuts. 

Ah, I see. Didn't know how difficult that was for them.

Well it is quite complex, the game would be like the whole map is a single one, a lot of techniques needed to achieve something that ambitious

https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/23/17263016/god-of-war-playstation-4-camera-single-shot



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LudicrousSpeed said:
Zoombael said:

Even after 1h presentation in GDC format it's still a mysterious secret to some. Astonishing.

Here’s how the SSD will affect a vast majority of games: they’ll load in, for example, 5 seconds on PS5, and 8 or 9 seconds on XSX. Dat secret sauce 

It didn't take you very long to prove what Zoombael wrote. Fascinating.

If we assume that all non-first party developers are clueless twits, then you are right, of course. If that assumption turns out to be false, there is only one twit left.



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drkohler said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Here’s how the SSD will affect a vast majority of games: they’ll load in, for example, 5 seconds on PS5, and 8 or 9 seconds on XSX. Dat secret sauce 

It didn't take you very long to prove what Zoombael wrote. Fascinating.

If we assume that all non-first party developers are clueless twits, then you are right, of course. If that assumption turns out to be false, there is only one twit left.

I’ll bump in a few years when I’ve been proven right, the SSD in the PS5 has not lead to any revolution in gaming. 

Hell we don’t even know how the XVA is going to affect XSX games. Could result in similar game design 😆



DonFerrari said:

The boost mode was designed to work 100% of the time and the cooling solution was made around it. TDP will be constant, the thermal will be the same indenpendent of where you are. The frequency will change depending of the load to not overshoot the TDP. As he said if 10% less drain is needed it would be achieved with a very small % drop on the frequency.

Also Cerny admitted that their solution to cooling on PS1-4 wasn't always the best solution because of their way to "guess" the worse case, this time they arbitrated it and designed around it, so no jet engine scenario should be expected (although I don't really care about the noise).

The Boost mode can't work 100% of the time, otherwise there isn't any point in having it, you might as well have static clocks like the Xbox Series X.

We can look to Renoir to see what will happen on the Smartshift front.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir-the-ryzen-mobile-4000-series-7nm-apu-uncovered/4

Essentially if the CPU+GPU+Memory controllers are pegged at 100%, the CPU, GPU clocks will be reduced from their maximum levels.
But if if either the CPU or GPU is being underutilized, it will send extra TDP to the component in demand and ramp up clockspeeds to their max.

So the 3.5Ghz CPU clock and 2.23Ghz GPU clock are best-case scenarios, performance can and may be allot lower.

DonFerrari said:

Ignoring all info Pema and CGI are discussing on the subject will only lead you to be more impressed when they start showing what this can do. It isn't out of the nothing that it was the most asked feature from devs, and why Jason was saying some devs were saying PS5 is the biggest revolution they saw gen over gen.

But yes call it secret sauce if it makes you happy.

Me and CGI are both happy and impressed with the hardware?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

We can't compare directly because this time XBox has the better hardware.

If the situation was reversed then it would be fine to do it.

Sounds about right.



We can't compare directly because this time XBox has the better hardware.

If the situation was reversed then it would be fine to do it.

Sounds about right.



Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

The boost mode was designed to work 100% of the time and the cooling solution was made around it. TDP will be constant, the thermal will be the same indenpendent of where you are. The frequency will change depending of the load to not overshoot the TDP. As he said if 10% less drain is needed it would be achieved with a very small % drop on the frequency.

Also Cerny admitted that their solution to cooling on PS1-4 wasn't always the best solution because of their way to "guess" the worse case, this time they arbitrated it and designed around it, so no jet engine scenario should be expected (although I don't really care about the noise).

The Boost mode can't work 100% of the time, otherwise there isn't any point in having it, you might as well have static clocks like the Xbox Series X.

We can look to Renoir to see what will happen on the Smartshift front.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15624/amd-details-renoir-the-ryzen-mobile-4000-series-7nm-apu-uncovered/4

Essentially if the CPU+GPU+Memory controllers are pegged at 100%, the CPU, GPU clocks will be reduced from their maximum levels.
But if if either the CPU or GPU is being underutilized, it will send extra TDP to the component in demand and ramp up clockspeeds to their max.

So the 3.5Ghz CPU clock and 2.23Ghz GPU clock are best-case scenarios, performance can and may be allot lower.

DonFerrari said:

Ignoring all info Pema and CGI are discussing on the subject will only lead you to be more impressed when they start showing what this can do. It isn't out of the nothing that it was the most asked feature from devs, and why Jason was saying some devs were saying PS5 is the biggest revolution they saw gen over gen.

But yes call it secret sauce if it makes you happy.

Me and CGI are both happy and impressed with the hardware?

Mark Cerny and Digital Foundry explained it, it isn`t a temporary boost. It is the regular use of the GPU and CPU, either of them can be kept to the maximum frequency all the time, sure he don`t say both would be at the same time, and that is where the change in frequency comes for one going down (few %) for the other to go the maximum.

Not only both of you are satisfied but also expect shift on how games are made when leveraging the SSD advantages.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994