Forums - Sony Discussion - Why we cannot compare PS5 and Xbox series X directly, EDIT : add Resident Evil 3 remake and DOOM Eternal that run better on PS4 Pro as an example, also add EX- Crytek Developer and programer testimon

After reading a lot of game developer and expert alike across Internet and watching their video analysis , i can conclude both system are great. Both are different in term of application AMD hardware and using different method. I am not telling to this to hype PS5 alone or Xbox series X alone, because both are them are incredible, Developer will have different approach to making their games on the future.

This thread i will focus on PS5 because many downplaying PS5 spec and their system design. I will put  a lot of game developer comment and expert from tweeter and forum.

Read the rest at this thread https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=242074&page=1

Video Analysis :

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/18/21185141/ps5-playstation-5-xbox-series-x-comparison-specs-features-release-date

EDIT: 

OK guys another example is Resident Evil 3 Remake this games run slightly better resolution but worse frame rates on One X but run almost 60 fps on PS4 Pro with lower resolution the One X. Remember on paper both One X has 45 % advantage in terms FLOP ( plus One X has better memory setupand with UHD 4k). This is just shows in reality both machine has some thread off , some aspect can be run better some aspect can be run bad, they have plus and minus. Comparing PS5 and Series X will be even harder and imposible both even far closer than PS4 and Xbox One (41 %), and with both can produce native 4k and run VRS i believe both will run the same .

EDIT 2: 

ANother example where DOOM Eternal on PS4 Pro running better than Xbox One X while the gap on raw TFLOPS about 42% in favor for ONE X and also has more memory (RAM) a, more bandwidth and faster CPU on ONE X. Another example that even at that level of disadvantage games can be run and look equal. 

" ... A quick look back at PS1 vs Saturn vs N64, Xbox vs Gamecube vs PS2, Xbox 360 vs PS3, and Xbox One vs PS4 shows countless examples of cross-platform games that should have run faster on one particular system when looking at the specs alone, but the benchmarks proved otherwise..."

"...We’re now in an era where major consoles are sharing the same underlying architecture, and some main system components comprise the same chips from the same manufacturer — some even the same model numbers — differing slightly by clock speeds, implementation, firmwares, and APIs. If we’ve not seen a slew of reliable and predictable FPS differences between previous machines so far, we’re certainly not going to suddenly see them moving forward. The gap is closing, not widening..."

"...

So, which computer would give the highest FPS in a game: one with a 2.0 teraflop processor in its GPU, or one with a 2.2 teraflop processor in its GPU? Now we need to look at different clock speeds, bus bandwidth, cache sizes, register counts, main and video RAM sizes, access latencies, core counts, northbridge implementation, firmwares, drivers, operating systems, graphics APIs, shader languages, compiler optimisations, overall engine architecture, data formats, and hundreds, maybe thousands of other factors. Each game team will utilise and tune the engine differently, constantly profiling and optimising based on conditions.

A 10% increase in any one of those individual stats isn’t going to give you a 10% increase in performance. The machine as a whole would need to be slightly increased to see an overall benefit, and you would only be able to determine the final gain by profiling each game, and even then it won’t scale linearly. If this was a consistent and predictable thing to calculate based on raw box stats, we wouldn’t need Digital Foundry..."

Last edited by HollyGamer - 6 days ago

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Hmm... I haven't really been seeing much downplaying.

There seems to be more information yet to come.

I want to see some real world usage and application for these consoles. They're quite similar and thus comparable.



Guess we will see when the consoles actually release but if I was a third party developer, I'd rather hit 3 birds with one stone (Ps5, XsX, PC) instead of 1 bird with one stone... Unless of course hitting that bird teleports hookers and money with maybe some pancakes and lube into my room. Then I'd use that use that SSD's full abilities for sure!



             

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I don't recall downplaying in particular.
But confusion about what the SSD will so, sure. The way I understood it from Cerny's talk and Digital Foundry is how this developer describes it, here:

HollyGamer said:

Games can straight up look and function better because of this.
But more interestingly is how this lets developers create the games without having to work around these limitations that have been stifling their creative freedom for generations. We usually never notice when we play the games, because they're designed in a way that we won't. We don't know what we're missing, because we never see it.

The movement and capabilities of your character isn't necessarily just for gameplay balance purposes. They're also 'nerfed' to allow the rest of the game to load in assets in time. Or the other way around. The level design and detail is sacrificed, in order to let your character move or act in certain ways. Or just in order to make your main character look better.

This affects so many aspects of games and game development. But I think it's such a big deal with PS5's SSD only because the leap it takes is to such a degree that with next gen graphics, it's more than enough to remove all those limitations.

Which brings up the interesting question. What happens if they push fidelity to the point where they re-introduce those limitations again?
It would again stifle game design, but I'd be curious to see what a game like that would look like.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 March 2020

Hiku said:

Which brings up the interesting question. What happens if they push fidelity to the point where they re-introduce those limitations again?
It would again stifle game design, but I'd be curious to see what a game like that would look like.

It's an interesting question to pose... And I look forward to seeing how game design evolves here on out, we have seen an inkling of what that future is with StarCitizen of course.

Either way, if you buy an Xbox Series X or a Playstation 5, you will be getting an impressive experience, both consoles have their hardware Pro's and Con's which is expected for a product required to hit a certain price bracket.

Ray Tracing and asset Streaming will be the talking points for years to come, just like the Cell or 8GB GDDR5 was.




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Pemalite said:
Hiku said:

Which brings up the interesting question. What happens if they push fidelity to the point where they re-introduce those limitations again?
It would again stifle game design, but I'd be curious to see what a game like that would look like.

It's an interesting question to pose... And I look forward to seeing how game design evolves here on out, we have seen an inkling of what that future is with StarCitizen of course.

Either way, if you buy an Xbox Series X or a Playstation 5, you will be getting an impressive experience, both consoles have their hardware Pro's and Con's which is expected for a product required to hit a certain price bracket.

Ray Tracing and asset Streaming will be the talking points for years to come, just like the Cell or 8GB GDDR5 was.

Yup. I feel like what specific advantages to game design were utilized will be tough to make out without the devs telling us. It may result in us seeing higher quality assets, or maybe this forest pathway was designed in a more pleasing way than it otherwise would have. But either way these things should end up saving devs valuable time not having to deal with so many workarounds and compromises. 
Gonna be interesting to see how each console handles things with their respective pros and cons.

Cell was talked about a lot, but unfortunately mainly due to it's potential that it rarely reached. Hopefully that's not the case with these things.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 March 2020

Well for me personally, as a non-tech guy I couldnt care less about the ndetails of the power. I consider current gen graphics to be adequate and while an upgrade between gens is nice, the minor differences between the two dont seem significant to me.

However, I am very excited about the new SSDs for the new consoles (and especially the ps5) . The demo they did showing loading on Spider-man was great, and i remember hearing how the makers of GOW had just about reached their limit implementing that single shot technique. The SSD on ps5 should hopefully make this much easier to implement for GOW2. Additionally, if this can reduce development time, which has been getting longer every gen, then that is equally as great. Most of all, I still want to know WHERE ARE THE GAMES!!! IT IS ALL ABOUT THE GAMES!!!

Last edited by fauzman - on 20 March 2020

fauzman said:
Well for me personally, as a non-tech guy I couldnt care less about the ndetails of the power. I consider current gen graphivs to be adequate and which an upgrade between gens is nice, the minor differences between the two dont seem significant to me. However, I am very excited about the new SSDs for the new consoles (but especially ps5) . The demo they did showing loading on Spider-man was great, and i remember hearing how the makers of GOW had just about reached their limit implementing that single shot technique. The SSD on ps5 should hopefully make this much easier to implement for GOW2. Additionally, if this can reduce development time, which has been getting longer every gen, then that is equally as great. Most of all, WHERE ARE THE GAMES! IT IS ALL ABOUT THE GAMES!

What single shot technique is that?

And yeah, devs not having to pull their hair out figuring out workarounds due to design limitations should save valuable time, while giving us something closer to what the devs envisioned instead.
Aside from saving time, there's also saving space on the Blu Ray/SSD. Cerny gave an example of how a mailbox assets was repeated I think 40 times on the harddrive for Spiderman, because it takes too long to search the drive for it. The system must be ready to find that data at all times to load it in fast. This takes up unnecessary space on the Blu-Ray/HDD, but that shouldn't be an issue with either PS5 or XSX.

Last edited by Hiku - on 20 March 2020

Many games pushing the limits have used pre-rendered cut-scenes as well, to hide load times.

Now, it won’t be as necessary, so hopefully, real time cut scenes will make their return. I always preferred real time cut scene over pre-rendered (even if those can be mighty impressive) because it showcases the capabilities of the console.



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HEY GUYS! HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT BRAND NEW SSD TECHNOLOGY???!??



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