Forums - Sony Discussion - Gran Turismo PS5: 4K Resolution is Enough, Looking Into Higher Than 60fps - Kazunori Yamauchi

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What do you think

Yes 2 6.45%
 
That's to much 3 9.68%
 
I dont mind the games running at 30 fps 0 0.00%
 
Make it 120 fps with 4k with PS4 graphic 3 9.68%
 
Make it 60 fps 4k with be... 23 74.19%
 
Total:31

We will have 4K/60fps next gen, but no, it will not be a standard. Keep expectations in check.



                                                                                                             

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CGI-Quality said:
We will have 4K/60fps next gen, but no, it will not be a standard. Keep expectations in check.

This is where we see how good you are at answering stupid questions, my question is there any benefit from having say 120fps even though the display can't run it,the reason I'm asking is I remember hearing developers talk about certain assets/tech even though they weren't supported being implemented because they still offered some kind of benefit.



mjk45 said:
CGI-Quality said:
We will have 4K/60fps next gen, but no, it will not be a standard. Keep expectations in check.

This is where we see how good you are at answering stupid questions, my question is there any benefit from having say 120fps even though the display can't run it,the reason I'm asking is I remember hearing developers talk about certain assets/tech even though they weren't supported being implemented because they still offered some kind of benefit.

Nah. Without the additional hardware, the extra data won’t be received.



                                                                                                             

My question is, when will graphics become so overkill that you can't tell video games from reality anymore(if going for the realistic look) and fps so overkill that any more would just be stupid. And at that point, do new consoles with the same box and controller even need to be released? Or unless someone comes up with a new idea like Ninty often does, just selling the same console work out indefinitely with special editions and replacement of too old to properly work consoles(like laptops) be enough. Or is it too far in the future that by the time we get there, either climate change kills us or internet speed becomes so good that streaming becomes the norm and all improvements are in the background with consumers just using the same service for years on end?

For me, 4k /120fps is the roof. After that is redundant and overkill. But improvements on the models themselves to look better and the environments to look better and more powerful CPUs to make AIs better and that sort of less definable in terms of numbers sort of stuff should be improved and focused on. And if all of that reaches an overkill state, Maybe just focus on giving a compelling narrative and a fun game to play should only be focused on. Another interesting thing would be AI becoming so good and worlds so vast and full of life, the fictional games where you can constantly make your own narrative and keep playing and finding new stories even after years of playing it become a reality, maybe even in VR?

Edit: Maybe someone should make a thread about this?

Last edited by Eagle367 - on 19 February 2020

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sales2099 said:
Keiji said:

I don't agree with him at all. The games won't even be at 60fps the next gen, only some of them.

You don’t think 4K 60 FPS will be a standard? I mean if the Xbox X can do 4K 30fps I’d like to think the next gen can make it happen 

I don't think it will be standard either. Nor do I really want it to be outside of competitive shooters and racing sims.

I'd happily play a single player narrative driven game that looks amazing at 30fps... Unless I can turn it up to 60fps with all the "bells and whistles" in 1440p despite owning a decent 4K tv.

The thing I want next generation is choice.



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Eagle367 said:

My question is, when will graphics become so overkill that you can't tell video games from reality anymore(if going for the realistic look) and fps so overkill that any more would just be stupid. And at that point, do new consoles with the same box and controller even need to be released? Or unless someone comes up with a new idea like Ninty often does, just selling the same console work out indefinitely with special editions and replacement of too old to properly work consoles(like laptops) be enough. Or is it too far in the future that by the time we get there, either climate change kills us or internet speed becomes so good that streaming becomes the norm and all improvements are in the background with consumers just using the same service for years on end?

For me, 4k /120fps is the roof. After that is redundant and overkill. But improvements on the models themselves to look better and the environments to look better and more powerful CPUs to make AIs better and that sort of less definable in terms of numbers sort of stuff should be improved and focused on. And if all of that reaches an overkill state, Maybe just focus on giving a compelling narrative and a fun game to play should only be focused on. Another interesting thing would be AI becoming so good and worlds so vast and full of life, the fictional games where you can constantly make your own narrative and keep playing and finding new stories even after years of playing it become a reality, maybe even in VR?

Edit: Maybe someone should make a thread about this?

Human vision limit is about 200 pixels per degree of field of view, light sensitivity from 0.01 lumens to 3,500 lumens (before it gets uncomfortably bright) which is about 38,000 nits, up to 1000 fps and a much wider color gamut than can be displayed today.

Current displays are approaching full DCI-P3 coverage atm and max 2000 nits. (GT Sport is already made for rec.2020 and up to 10,000 nits)

And humans also feel infrared radiation of course, feeling where the sun is adds realism as well. There's still quite a long way to go before we have consoles that can power duel 30K VR headsets at 1000 fps :) (Not that you actually need that since with eye tracking you only need the 2 degree center at max resolution, human detailed vision drops off quickly out of the center however movement and low light detection goes up out of the center)



Have some damn car destruction (sponsors need to get over it) and throw in some new modes like demolition derby and more rally sport like stuff



I am Iron Man

Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.





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Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.



Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Still GT for certainty will be 4K on PS5, GTS on PS4Pro is near that already.

I rather have dynamic lighting and weather for all tracks than native 4K. I would settle for 2560x2160 at 60 fps for dynamic weather and day/night cycles. It's all pre-baked lighting now, very pretty but static, causing the game to be over 100 GB already. I race a lot and it would be awesome if one of the race slots would reflect the actual time of day and weather at the track when you enter.

Sure. But if we are talking about next gen I believe we can see near or even native 4k still offering these features. But I do agree we can have some dynamic res, or reconstruction to portray the 4k but leave as much power as possible to other IQ features that could make the game look better.

Eagle367 said:

My question is, when will graphics become so overkill that you can't tell video games from reality anymore(if going for the realistic look) and fps so overkill that any more would just be stupid. And at that point, do new consoles with the same box and controller even need to be released? Or unless someone comes up with a new idea like Ninty often does, just selling the same console work out indefinitely with special editions and replacement of too old to properly work consoles(like laptops) be enough. Or is it too far in the future that by the time we get there, either climate change kills us or internet speed becomes so good that streaming becomes the norm and all improvements are in the background with consumers just using the same service for years on end?

For me, 4k /120fps is the roof. After that is redundant and overkill. But improvements on the models themselves to look better and the environments to look better and more powerful CPUs to make AIs better and that sort of less definable in terms of numbers sort of stuff should be improved and focused on. And if all of that reaches an overkill state, Maybe just focus on giving a compelling narrative and a fun game to play should only be focused on. Another interesting thing would be AI becoming so good and worlds so vast and full of life, the fictional games where you can constantly make your own narrative and keep playing and finding new stories even after years of playing it become a reality, maybe even in VR?

Edit: Maybe someone should make a thread about this?

We are between 20 and 50 years away from this being something, you can check CGI threads on the subject.

Sure probably 8k at 100" under 6 feet would already have such a pixel density that you wouldn't have need for more pixels, but there is so much more to get to real photorealism that you really can't differentiate (although my parents sometimes ask what movie I'm watching when I'm playing).

HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.



Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 

Because we want next gen graphics not PS4/X1 level of graphic at 120fps.



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