Forums - Gaming Discussion - Ocarina of Time vs Final Fantasy 7

I prefer...

Ocarina of Time 105 58.33%
 
Final Fantasy 7 75 41.67%
 
Total:180
Hynad said:
Shiken said:

All I know is, loading or not, I had to wait from the moment the screen distortion started to the moment the menu popped up to do anything.  To me, it is all the same waiting regardless of the supposed cause.

But lets be real here...it was loading.  No dev in their right mind would make waiting a design choice...

Fuck.........

(But really, those battles in FF7 were loading during the battle transitions.  Masking load times has been a common practice for years.)

There was a transition screen in older FF games as well. That’s the point. The ones in VII are no more an issue than they were in the SNES games. Masked loading or not, the end result is what counts, and in this case, mentioning them is grasping at straws at best. 

I just timed them.  FFVI took 5 sec total on SNES to transition from screen distortion to the ATB meter starting.  FFVII on the PS1 took 11 seconds to do the same thing.  That is just over twice as long.  It is even longer than the load times in Chrono Trigger on PS1, which many consider atrocious.  The difference is that FFVII masked them, where CT did not and therefore it seemed like CT had horrid load times even though FFVII was longer.

Is it blown a bit out of proportion?  Yeah, because FFVII masks them well enough.  But in a discussion that takes load times into consideration when it comes to a form of media, yeah it is very valid to bring up the fact that PS1 battle transitions took more than twice as long as their SNES counterparts.  There is no grasping straws when it comes to that.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Around the Network
JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

Even removed from the novelty of the time I think Ocarina's bosses are just pretty awesome; a serpentine dragon with a flowing mane of fire, a creepy one-eyed parasitic arachnid, A huge volcanic dinosaur...

The designs are cool.  I just think that the actual mechanics are pretty basic.  

They are indeed simple, but I find their simplicity quite elegant; I don't think a great boss needs to have complex routines or a convoluted process required to beat them, in fact I think most of the best boss fights are quite "basic" but executed in a way that's exciting and fun.



I didn't think there would be a direct this week, cos I'm a pessimistic dunce.

Shiken said:
Hynad said:

There was a transition screen in older FF games as well. That’s the point. The ones in VII are no more an issue than they were in the SNES games. Masked loading or not, the end result is what counts, and in this case, mentioning them is grasping at straws at best. 

I just timed them.  FFVI took 5 sec total on SNES to transition from screen distortion to the ATB meter starting.  FFVII on the PS1 took 11 seconds to do the same thing.  That is just over twice as long.  It is even longer than the load times in Chrono Trigger on PS1, which many consider atrocious.  The difference is that FFVII masked them, where CT did not and therefore it seemed like CT had horrid load times even though FFVII was longer.

Is it blown a bit out of proportion?  Yeah, because FFVII masks them well enough.  But in a discussion that takes load times into consideration when it comes to a form of media, yeah it is very valid to bring up the fact that PS1 battle transitions took more than twice as long as their SNES counterparts.  There is no grasping straws when it comes to that.

To be fair just like OoTs 24 fps gameplay felt good then, I didn't mind the PS1 load times in FFVII. That said, Games like Mario 64, OoT, MM etc. Weren't possible with the same speed and seamless transitions between areas on CD format at the time.

Nintendo went cartridge mostly to keep control of third parties (a minimum of 100,000 cartridges needed to be ordered for a game to see release and it cost 1 million for third parties to do so), and piracy. However just as there were draw backs in storage, there were also benefits in fast loads, and battery saves (which saved you precious money on memory paks). 



SammyGiireal said:
Shiken said:

I just timed them.  FFVI took 5 sec total on SNES to transition from screen distortion to the ATB meter starting.  FFVII on the PS1 took 11 seconds to do the same thing.  That is just over twice as long.  It is even longer than the load times in Chrono Trigger on PS1, which many consider atrocious.  The difference is that FFVII masked them, where CT did not and therefore it seemed like CT had horrid load times even though FFVII was longer.

Is it blown a bit out of proportion?  Yeah, because FFVII masks them well enough.  But in a discussion that takes load times into consideration when it comes to a form of media, yeah it is very valid to bring up the fact that PS1 battle transitions took more than twice as long as their SNES counterparts.  There is no grasping straws when it comes to that.

To be fair just like OoTs 24 fps gameplay felt good then, I didn't mind the PS1 load times in FFVII. That said, Games like Mario 64, OoT, MM etc. Weren't possible with the same speed and seamless transitions between areas on CD format at the time.

Nintendo went cartridge mostly to keep control of third parties (a minimum of 100,000 cartridges needed to be ordered for a game to see release and it cost 1 million for third parties to do so), and piracy. However just as there were draw backs in storage, there were also benefits in fast loads, and battery saves (which saved you precious money on memory paks). 

They don't bother me either when done right.  I just got done beating Chrono Cross again and getting all new game plus endings, and the transitions did not bother me one bit.  I just find it hard to believe that bringing up load times being twice as long on PS1 than SNES could be considered, "grasping for straws."

To me personally, they only really bothered me in the case of games like CT where there was no masking to help with it.  It was painful to watch everything just stop right there in front of you for up to 10 seconds everytime a battle would take place lol.

Last edited by Shiken - on 24 February 2020

Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Shiken said:
SammyGiireal said:

To be fair just like OoTs 24 fps gameplay felt good then, I didn't mind the PS1 load times in FFVII. That said, Games like Mario 64, OoT, MM etc. Weren't possible with the same speed and seamless transitions between areas on CD format at the time.

Nintendo went cartridge mostly to keep control of third parties (a minimum of 100,000 cartridges needed to be ordered for a game to see release and it cost 1 million for third parties to do so), and piracy. However just as there were draw backs in storage, there were also benefits in fast loads, and battery saves (which saved you precious money on memory paks). 

They don't bother me either when done right.  I just got done beating Chrono Cross again and getting all new game plus endings, and the transitions did not bother me one bit.  I just find it hard to believe that bringing up load times being twice as long on PS1 than SNES could be considered, "grasping for straws."

To me personally, they only really bothered me in the case of games like CT where there was no masking to help with it.  It was painful to watch everything just stop right there in front of you for up to 10 seconds everytime a battle would take place lol.

Chrono Cross is a wonderful game, the music is fantastic, I love Radical Dreamers. You are right 10 seconds is not an improvement or even parity with Cartridge load times. I just want really bothered by it in 1997. Some other games did have issues with this, that I found an annoyance. 



Around the Network
curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

The designs are cool.  I just think that the actual mechanics are pretty basic.  

They are indeed simple, but I find their simplicity quite elegant; I don't think a great boss needs to have complex routines or a convoluted process required to beat them, in fact I think most of the best boss fights are quite "basic" but executed in a way that's exciting and fun.

Eh.  Well we're going in circles here, so probably time to end this.



The great thing with Remake is that it will attrack new wave of players who hasn't been lucky yet to know the BEST GAME EVER : Final Fantasy VII.



Keiji said:

The great thing with Remake is that it will attrack new wave of players who hasn't been lucky yet to know the BEST GAME EVER : Final Fantasy VII.

I did not know Chrono Trigger was spelled like that!



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

Shiken said:
Keiji said:

The great thing with Remake is that it will attrack new wave of players who hasn't been lucky yet to know the BEST GAME EVER : Final Fantasy VII.

I did not know Chrono Trigger was spelled like that!

Great game but FF VII stays Godly king.



Hynad said:
Peh said:

Just going to insult me instead of providing a counter argument....

The counter argument is the video. The loading is hardly an issue, and certainly not as long as you claim. In fact, it’s hardly longer than what was found in the SNES FF games. The black fade up to the moment you can issue commands is barely anything to write about. Certain games on the PS1 had loading issues. Sure. But the fact that Squaresoft managed to make their games with minimal loadings makes the cartridge vs CD loading argument silly in this comparison. 

Again , you are trying to make this look like a bigger deal than it was. Hence me calling your comments dishonest.

Your video is not a counter argument, since I use the transition scene for my point where I already told you how the loading is done. 

I can go the same path as you and say that MDK has no loading times, at all, because you run through a long tunnel between sections.

Or even argue that Resident Evil 1 has no loading times, because you look at a door opening animation.

Because you don't see a loading screen doesn't mean that games has no loading times. Every game has them! It depends on how you mask them. Stop making a fuss about this and move on. 

And stop calling me or my comments dishonest, since you have absolutely no clue about what masking loading times is all about.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti 11GB VRAM | Asus PG27UQ gaming on 3840 x 2160 @120 Hz GSYNC HDR| HTC Vive Pro :3

Reached PC master race level.