Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Rumour: The Major Switch Title This Holiday Season Could Have "Tyres" In It

JWeinCom said:
Doesn't seem to be much sense in Mario Kart. Would much rather see a new entry in either F-Zero or Kirby Air Ride, since those appeal, theoretically, to a different audience.

Neither of those sound like a major title. One is a niche racer from a niche genre, and the other a spin-off.

I am not saying it’s a DKR game, but it’s the best theory I’ve read so far, IMO. It’s a game with potential of 10M+ given its original sold over 4.8m on the N64, and the poorly received and  limited port on DS still managed to get 1.6m. Although, I wonder what kind of hook it could have? 12 player local and up to 64 via WiFi/online? DKR was a nice distraction from Mario Kart, but only surpassed it for a short time in sales on the N64; also, while people played MK64 regularly all the way up to Mario Kart Wii, DKR did fall out of favour by the end of the PSX/N64 generation.

So, a new DKR can’t sell fully on legacy, IMO. It needs a big hook.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 17 February 2020

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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zorg1000 said:
Pemalite said:

Still being bundled heavily in various regions.

Australia for example.
https://www.ebgames.com.au/product/nintendo-switch/808255-nintendo-switch-neon-console-1-game

Some sellers on the Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-Switch-Console-Mario-Kart-Deluxe/dp/B07JJLLFXJ

Walmart in the USA has a heap of bundles too.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wheel-Set-Nintendo-Mario-Case-Neon-Super-Disc-Kart-Deluxe-Console-an-Pair-Blue-Bundle-Red-Travel-Pink-Game-Switch-Extra-8-2-Joy-Con-Joy-Con-Green/288167183

But okay.

I am also not saying it's not a good seller, far from it.

Nah. They are ports. And they don't leverage the Switch's hardware capabilities to the fullest extent... Which is the biggest reason to release a Mario Kart 9. - I couldn't care if Nintendo is still selling copies, that's not my problem.

The fact a majority of people may not have played these ports on the WiiU, doesn't mean they are new titles or new gaming experiences, that's just a fallacy.

Australia makes up maybe a few percent of total sales and the walmart bundle you linked is over $500. MK8 bundles make up a very small amount of its sales, it's around ~23 million shipped and would at worst be like ~20 million without bundles.

Of course they arent new titles, I didn't say they were, I'm saying to the vast majority of people that does not matter because barely anyone owned a Wii U. They are highly desirable games that were stuck on a highly undesirable console and are selling as if they were new titles.

Even if millions are sold in bundles, people would still be paying extra for that bundle to have the game. It’s clear Mario Kart 8 is the most popular game on Switch.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Pemalite said:
zorg1000 said:

Australia makes up maybe a few percent of total sales and the walmart bundle you linked is over $500. MK8 bundles make up a very small amount of its sales, it's around ~23 million shipped and would at worst be like ~20 million without bundles.

Hence why I said "Bundle heavily in various regions".  - They were examples.

The USA bundle includes more than just the game, hence it's price, it includes a steering wheel, carry case, extra Joycons.
But again... It was an example... And you are missing the point of why I provided such an example.

Either way. Here is another at a lower price:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nintendo-Switch-Gaming-Console-Neon-Blue-and-Neon-Red-Joy-Con-Bundle-with-Mario-Kart-Deluxe-8/333306670

Or hows about Target USA?
https://www.target.com/p/nintendo-switch-mario-kart-8-deluxe-bundle-with-neon-blue-and-neon-red-joy-con/-/A-78178557

JFC.

Here is another bundle, this time the UK.
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/gaming/gaming-consoles/nintendo-switch-lite-mario-kart-8-deluxe-bundle-turquoise-10198471-pdt.html

Need me to continue? Those are all sales, they all add up. - It's still not going to account for 10's of millions of sales as the game has been on the market since 2014 and been selling since then, but it all still adds up.
Obviously Nintendo are at the point where they are happy to give the game away with a console.

zorg1000 said:

Of course they arent new titles, I didn't say they were, I'm saying to the vast majority of people that does not matter because barely anyone owned a Wii U. They are highly desirable games that were stuck on a highly undesirable console and are selling as if they were new titles.

The amount of people who owned a Wii U is irrelevant.
Doesn't change the fact they are ports of old games, Nintendo is just making money with minimal effort. (And so they should if they can profit from it.)

But I would argue it's not pro-consumer when a game built from the ground up to take full advantage of the Switch's hardware could give us a brand new experience.

None of the examples are giving the game away though since they cost the same as the console+game. Look back at your original statement, you were saying that bundles make up a significant amount of the games sales when that's just not true.

Idk why you keep telling me they are ports, I know and acknowledged that already. I'm talking about consumer perspective, people in stores dont go up to the Switch section and think, "that's a port of the Wii U game!", they are thinking, "that's the new Mario Kart game!"

It's similar to GTA V, barely anybody thinks of it as a PS3/360 port, they think of it as the latest GTA game. There is no point in cutting the legs short of games that are still selling millions of copies each year.

Here are annual MK8D shipments

2017-7.33 million

2018-7.69 million

2019-7.94 million

Sales arent just holding stable, they are actually getting better and the game is on track to become the best selling in the franchise despite being a port, a MK9 would just cannibalize that, they should create a new IP or bring back a dormant one.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:
Doesn't seem to be much sense in Mario Kart. Would much rather see a new entry in either F-Zero or Kirby Air Ride, since those appeal, theoretically, to a different audience.

Neither of those sound like a major title. One is a niche racer from a niche genre, and the other a spin-off.

I am not saying it’s a DKR game, but it’s the best theory I’ve read so far, IMO. It’s a game with potential of 10M+ given its original sold over 4.8m on the N64, and the poorly received and  limited port on DS still managed to get 1.6m. Although, I wonder what kind of hook it could have? 12 player local and up to 64 via WiFi/online? DKR was a nice distraction from Mario Kart, but only surpassed it for a short time in sales on the N64; also, while people played MK64 regularly all the way up to Mario Kart Wii, DKR did fall out of favour by the end of the PSX/N64 generation.

So, a new DKR can’t sell fully on legacy, IMO. It needs a big hook.

Whether or not they're major titles really depends on the amount of effort put into them.  At one point, a new Fire Emblem game would not have been considered a major title, but now, it is.  Same to a lesser extent for Xenoblade or Luigi's Mansion.  So, it could be a major title if someone in Nintendo sees potential and decides they want to make it the next big thing.



zorg1000 said:

None of the examples are giving the game away though since they cost the same as the console+game. Look back at your original statement, you were saying that bundles make up a significant amount of the games sales when that's just not true.

That is a logical fallacy. - Shifting the goal post.

I didn't mention price or cost, thus it is irrelevant to the points I am conveying.

And you are correct. I said "significant". - That doesn't mean majority. It means a "large amount". - Millions of sales is likely a "large amount".

zorg1000 said:

Idk why you keep telling me they are ports, I know and acknowledged that already. I'm talking about consumer perspective, people in stores dont go up to the Switch section and think, "that's a port of the Wii U game!", they are thinking, "that's the new Mario Kart game!"

Doesn't stop it from being a port.
Just means those people are fundamentally wrong.

zorg1000 said:

It's similar to GTA V, barely anybody thinks of it as a PS3/360 port, they think of it as the latest GTA game. There is no point in cutting the legs short of games that are still selling millions of copies each year.

Technically it's a game that was ported from the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 to the PC, where it was enhanced, from there it was ported to the Xbox One/Playstation 4.

And I would argue that I would still have preferred a newer Grand Theft Auto game rather than a port, so it's no different to the Mario Kart scenario.
This is about what I want, not you or someone else.

zorg1000 said:

Here are annual MK8D shipments

2017-7.33 million

2018-7.69 million

2019-7.94 million

Sales arent just holding stable, they are actually getting better and the game is on track to become the best selling in the franchise despite being a port, a MK9 would just cannibalize that, they should create a new IP or bring back a dormant one.

Again, I don't care if Mario Kart 9 would cannibalize that, it's not my problem.
I want new experiences, not old ones.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
zorg1000 said:

None of the examples are giving the game away though since they cost the same as the console+game. Look back at your original statement, you were saying that bundles make up a significant amount of the games sales when that's just not true.

That is a logical fallacy. - Shifting the goal post.

I didn't mention price or cost, thus it is irrelevant to the points I am conveying.

And you are correct. I said "significant". - That doesn't mean majority. It means a "large amount". - Millions of sales is likely a "large amount".

zorg1000 said:

Idk why you keep telling me they are ports, I know and acknowledged that already. I'm talking about consumer perspective, people in stores dont go up to the Switch section and think, "that's a port of the Wii U game!", they are thinking, "that's the new Mario Kart game!"

Doesn't stop it from being a port.
Just means those people are fundamentally wrong.

zorg1000 said:

It's similar to GTA V, barely anybody thinks of it as a PS3/360 port, they think of it as the latest GTA game. There is no point in cutting the legs short of games that are still selling millions of copies each year.

Technically it's a game that was ported from the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 to the PC, where it was enhanced, from there it was ported to the Xbox One/Playstation 4.

And I would argue that I would still have preferred a newer Grand Theft Auto game rather than a port, so it's no different to the Mario Kart scenario.
This is about what I want, not you or someone else.

zorg1000 said:

Here are annual MK8D shipments

2017-7.33 million

2018-7.69 million

2019-7.94 million

Sales arent just holding stable, they are actually getting better and the game is on track to become the best selling in the franchise despite being a port, a MK9 would just cannibalize that, they should create a new IP or bring back a dormant one.

Again, I don't care if Mario Kart 9 would cannibalize that, it's not my problem.
I want new experiences, not old ones.


A lot wrong in your comment, but the main point being: Nintendo doesn't care what you want, that IS your problem. They care about what is going to make the most sense from a business perspective. Mario Kart 9 on the Switch would be a pretty stupid decision, which Zorg pointed out very clearly. It's not Nintendo's problem that you don't understand that.

A lot of people wouldn't buy a second Mario Kart on Switch because they already have Mario Kart on Switch, I certainly wouldn't buy a second version of Mario Kart on a single system. And most new Switch buyers would probably buy the newer one, instead of the older one or both, thus cannibalizing the older one's sales. The only way it would make sense for a second Mario Kart to release on a single system would be if they really changed up the formula, but then that would probably just be a different game, not a Mario kart game. I could see a Nintendo Racer being released, like a Smash-type concept thrown into a DKR type game, the spiritual baby of Smash and DKR (as that would probably be a bigger seller than just DKR itself). But simply another Mario Kart on the same system is a loser of an idea.



I don't want Mario Kart 9! I still play MK8 and love it so I don't really see the need for 9



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(


Pemalite said:
zorg1000 said:

None of the examples are giving the game away though since they cost the same as the console+game. Look back at your original statement, you were saying that bundles make up a significant amount of the games sales when that's just not true.

That is a logical fallacy. - Shifting the goal post.

I didn't mention price or cost, thus it is irrelevant to the points I am conveying.

And you are correct. I said "significant". - That doesn't mean majority. It means a "large amount". - Millions of sales is likely a "large amount".

zorg1000 said:

Idk why you keep telling me they are ports, I know and acknowledged that already. I'm talking about consumer perspective, people in stores dont go up to the Switch section and think, "that's a port of the Wii U game!", they are thinking, "that's the new Mario Kart game!"

Doesn't stop it from being a port.
Just means those people are fundamentally wrong.

zorg1000 said:

It's similar to GTA V, barely anybody thinks of it as a PS3/360 port, they think of it as the latest GTA game. There is no point in cutting the legs short of games that are still selling millions of copies each year.

Technically it's a game that was ported from the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 to the PC, where it was enhanced, from there it was ported to the Xbox One/Playstation 4.

And I would argue that I would still have preferred a newer Grand Theft Auto game rather than a port, so it's no different to the Mario Kart scenario.
This is about what I want, not you or someone else.

zorg1000 said:

Here are annual MK8D shipments

2017-7.33 million

2018-7.69 million

2019-7.94 million

Sales arent just holding stable, they are actually getting better and the game is on track to become the best selling in the franchise despite being a port, a MK9 would just cannibalize that, they should create a new IP or bring back a dormant one.

Again, I don't care if Mario Kart 9 would cannibalize that, it's not my problem.
I want new experiences, not old ones.


Go back and look at your original post I quoted. "I am pretty sure alot of those "sales" are coming from free console bundles". How is that not mentioning price or cost?

At what point did this conversation shift from what makes sense for Nintendo to what you personally want? If anybody is shifting goalposts its you.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

JWeinCom said:
Jumpin said:

Neither of those sound like a major title. One is a niche racer from a niche genre, and the other a spin-off.

I am not saying it’s a DKR game, but it’s the best theory I’ve read so far, IMO. It’s a game with potential of 10M+ given its original sold over 4.8m on the N64, and the poorly received and  limited port on DS still managed to get 1.6m. Although, I wonder what kind of hook it could have? 12 player local and up to 64 via WiFi/online? DKR was a nice distraction from Mario Kart, but only surpassed it for a short time in sales on the N64; also, while people played MK64 regularly all the way up to Mario Kart Wii, DKR did fall out of favour by the end of the PSX/N64 generation.

So, a new DKR can’t sell fully on legacy, IMO. It needs a big hook.

Whether or not they're major titles really depends on the amount of effort put into them.  At one point, a new Fire Emblem game would not have been considered a major title, but now, it is.  Same to a lesser extent for Xenoblade or Luigi's Mansion.  So, it could be a major title if someone in Nintendo sees potential and decides they want to make it the next big thing.

I can't see Kirby's Air Ride or F-Zero having the potential of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I also wouldn't consider either Xenoblade or Fire Emblem among Nintendo's major franchises; while these two games have increased sales over predecessors, they're still niche titles selling no where near Nintendo's major games. For first party games, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 only beats Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker and Crafted World in sales.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:

Whether or not they're major titles really depends on the amount of effort put into them.  At one point, a new Fire Emblem game would not have been considered a major title, but now, it is.  Same to a lesser extent for Xenoblade or Luigi's Mansion.  So, it could be a major title if someone in Nintendo sees potential and decides they want to make it the next big thing.

I can't see Kirby's Air Ride or F-Zero having the potential of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I also wouldn't consider either Xenoblade or Fire Emblem among Nintendo's major franchises; while these two games have increased sales over predecessors, they're still niche titles selling no where near Nintendo's major games. For first party games, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 only beats Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker and Crafted World in sales.

Whether or not Air Ride or F-Zero has potential is kind of a pointless argument since it's entirely theoretical. Granted, I don't think it's very likely either of these ever will actually be a major franchise, but, suppose that someone kidnapped Furukawa's entire family and said, "I'll only let them live if you make a Kirby Air Ride title that sells over 5 million copies at full retail price."  In this admittedly absurd scenario, I think Nintendo could make it happen.  I'm just saying it's possible, not that it's likely.

As for Xenoblade 2, I thought it sold more than it actually did.  So, not a great example.  Fire Emblem though is likely between 3-4 million, and has an outside shot at 5.  I'd call that major.