Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

You concerned yet?

Yes 83 47.98%
 
No, but I will be followi... 50 28.90%
 
No, its being overblown 40 23.12%
 
Total:173
John2290 said:
Hopefully someone can get the damn antibody tests and pharma companies should be forced to mass produce them for worldwide production alongside PPE and ventilators. This is one way of a small helping hand out of this, but the time needed... even the best solutions for bridges over either side of this take too much damn time. Are we left at the end of the day to just try and gamble a time out of lockdown and hope the hospitals are up to capacity and the essential work force don't drop dead in a month. Awe, man. This is the worst apocalypse scenario, the slow drop into incremental worsening outcomes with the good outcomes always blocked by time. It'd make for a fantastic Sci-fi novel but yeah, fuck this. There's too many people on the damn planet for an economic depression and there is no way out of it without gambling the whole fucking system on either side of the viruses walls. It's such a cosmic joke that Kenny Rogers died this month.

I complemented your return from panic earlier so I feel compelled to now say your are starting to spiral again by the looks of your last several posts. Panic rarely does any good for anyone.



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3/26 US-Italy Chart:

Yesterday I projected the US would pass Italy and tie China for total number of cases.  Unfortunately, it blew past both of them. 5k ahead of Italy and 4K ahead of China.  The US is now the world's most infected nation. Italy also had a rough day with their 3rd most deaths and 2nd most new cases.

That break that France yesterday lasted just 1 day.  Deaths and new cases were way up. Spain is again outpacing Italy.

The UK, Turkey, Belgium and Austria all saw extreme increases in new cases, deaths or both.

Last edited by SpokenTruth - on 26 March 2020

Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SvennoJ said:

The French are holding up well under the lock down
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/eerie-quiet-but-no-panic-as-rural-france-enters-lockdown-coronavirus

I skipped shopping this week since we have enough stuff for now anyway. Might as well do my part to reduce traffic and keep distance. Hopefully test capacity ramps up in Canada so there will be some clarity where the hot spots are. Quebec seems to be hit hardest so far or is most on the ball with testing. Quebec did 36K tests, 2622 still wait for results, 1629 positive (43 in ICU), while Ontario did 38k tests, 858 positive (20 on ventilators) yet still 11K waiting on results...

Ontario's Associate Medical Officer of Health Dr. Barbara Yaffe said that of the cases that have been investigated by public health officials, community transmission is suspected in roughly 25 per cent. However health officials have only investigated around 60 per cent of Ontario's confirmed cases.


I heard super markets here are now also limiting how many people can go inside at the same time.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/how-to-grocery-shop-safely-during-the-covid-19-outbreak-1.4867477

Despite increased sanitation measures at stores, many Canadians remain concerned about whether the virus can be transmitted or carried into their home on the products they purchase.

“If you're talking about dry packaging, a cereal box, etc. again, the virus is not going to thrive on these surfaces,” infectious disease expert Dr. Abdu Sharkawy told CTV News.

“Remember that you're getting the virus, number one, by touching it with your own hands and then touching your own face. If you are diligent with your hand hygiene and you're not introducing anything to your mouth, your eyes or your nose, you're going to be just fine.”

Wash your damn hands!


Meanwhile our kids are already starting to drive us crazy. And the elderly neighbors of a friend of my wife killed themselves (husband shot wife then himself) :(

Oh my god...

This social distancing is killing me rn too. Idk how people are going to handle this for months more.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

A teenager thought it was funny to cough at my mom today on purpose...



John2290 said:
SvennoJ said:

Ah I did not know that, that makes a lot of sense.

Further indications that it's our whole society that is to blame for pandemics being so easily possible nowadays. You don't blame the first person that crashes a car, due to an underlying defect, for bad driving. You recall all the cars and fix the underlying defect. And that's a simple static chance, effecting at most a couple people. The start of a new virus has a very low static chance as well and will keep occurring. It's the way we live that turns it into a pandemic.

Hopefully more awareness to stay home when sick, cover your coughs etc and frequently wash your hands for at least 20 seconds with soap will also have a positive effect on the next flu season. And hopefully the current rise in video conferencing and working from home will reduce future traffic as well. And better regulations how to handle livestock will help as well.

Oh yes you can blame someone when they've drove that car countless times after crashing it.

Now, I fon't blame them pre industrial but ffs, regulate your citizens who are handling livestock and regulate them hard after the Russian flu, Hong kong flu but definetly after Sars, swine flu etc cause you don't have any excuses after that point in modern history. Maybe ban eating live Animals for one. We in the west regulate farmers for this reason, diseases among animals taking out another farmers livestock taking the forefront but this is also a majour reason and it works.

China needs to pay reparations for this shit, maybe wipe debt from the countries they've wronged here and maybe, just maybe they will start regulating livestock and live animal trading this time around. If we are all still standing globally at the end of this. 

This graph is sketchy as hell. The black plague that ravaged Europe started in china? What are the sources for all these?



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 said:
John2290 said:

Oh yes you can blame someone when they've drove that car countless times after crashing it.

Now, I fon't blame them pre industrial but ffs, regulate your citizens who are handling livestock and regulate them hard after the Russian flu, Hong kong flu but definetly after Sars, swine flu etc cause you don't have any excuses after that point in modern history. Maybe ban eating live Animals for one. We in the west regulate farmers for this reason, diseases among animals taking out another farmers livestock taking the forefront but this is also a majour reason and it works.

China needs to pay reparations for this shit, maybe wipe debt from the countries they've wronged here and maybe, just maybe they will start regulating livestock and live animal trading this time around. If we are all still standing globally at the end of this. 

This graph is sketchy as hell. The black plague that ravaged Europe started in china? What are the sources for all these?

I think the name tells me enough.  VisualCapitalist. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

It turns out our goverment (in denmark) is/was being silly.

Why didnt we test more? apparently because we were trying for a "soft" herd immunity buildup.
We didnt even really "try" to stop this thing in its tracks.... apparently they thought that would be impossible.

Takeing about waves of this thing returning, and how the first wave will be the worst but not the end of it, so its important to get the less at risk, to build up herd immunity.
Facking hell.... even in denmark, we re likely going to sacrifice our elderly for the economy (though in a controlled manner).

source: https://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/sundhedogmotion/art7727704/K%C3%A5re-M%C3%B8lbak-er-uenig-med-WHO-Det-er-%C2%BBtotalt-pass%C3%A9%C2%AB-at-indd%C3%A6mme-smitten


"thats just it, this is the problem with what WHO is saying,. They imagine that you can contain all cases of infection, however I believe that to be wrong" - Kåre Mølbæk.

"at best state serium institute, believe we can halve the transmitting, following the shutdown meassures we've taken, and thus have the "curve" flatten out, which will allow for the hospitals to keep up with it"

"if we tried to follow WHO sayings, we wouldnt reach any meaningfull sort of herd immunity, were a large enough amount of people get the infection and build up herd immunity, and thereby become immune to the virus in the future. If we did that, we would risk a secound wave, following to potentially be just as bad as this first one"

About home isolation:

"precisely, they shouldn't bring the infection outsides, infecting others outsides their home. However thats not the goal of the danish strategi, we dont want to stop infection. We need to build up a certain amount of herd immunity, this is a common goal amoungst all of europe"

"if we do this right, the virus wont be makeing a return"



Reporter: You say the infection cannot be contained.... why?

"You can, in the start of a infection chain. There you could try to contain it, as long as there is a very limited spread and your sure you can find everyone infected. However this is a illness that often has very mild symptoms, and you cannot with certainty identify, easily if a person has Covid19, it might well be other possible breathing related illnesses"

reporter: If we had gotten hold of all the early infected, these people that went on holidays, skiing in italy...and all their contacts, could we have done so?

"Yes, but then the infection would have just gotten in some other way"

reporter: How can you be so sure? this is hard to understand, why didnt you try?

"Because its too infectious, and it infects before you have any symptoms. There is nothing characteristic, thats easy to "know" this illness on. The problem with some of these experts from WHO, is that they are takeing their experiance from fighting SARS and Polio and other illnesses to this, ignoreing that this illness is differnt, it has no easily spotted characteristic patern. Therefor theres no way around it, we need to build up a certain herd immunity in our population. The first wave will be the worst, and the next will be milder, and at some point 40-60% will have gotten it, it will find a balance and end up a natural infection amoung all others"


Reporter: What exactly is it WHO arnt right in, when they say isolate and test everyone?

"How is that ever going to happend in a country like india? or in a country on the african continent? I cannot for the life of me, see it, not with the resources they have. Thats something possible probably only in small island societies or extremely reource rich societies. However if you look at "whole" continents, thats never going to be a real option. The virus outbreaks will keep comeing on and on. You would need to make a form of border countroll, that tested for immunities or sickness, before entry. Even if such a thing sounds do-able, its actually not something possible to put into practis on a global scale, in the world we live in"



This is what you see in the UK too, they also went for a herd immunity route.
Sweden as well.. hell I suspect even in the US.

Why did trump go on tv and say :
"dont worry people, its only 15 infected, a week from now, the numbers will drop, they ll recover, its like a miracle, it ll be gone"


He was probably told, to say something calming to the people, so it would start to spread.
perphaps all the larger nations / continents, are chooseing a controlled herd immunity strategy.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 27 March 2020

John2290 said:
Hopefully someone can get the damn antibody tests and pharma companies should be forced to mass produce them for worldwide production alongside PPE and ventilators. This is one way of a small helping hand out of this, but the time needed... even the best solutions for bridges over either side of this take too much damn time. Are we left at the end of the day to just try and gamble a time out of lockdown and hope the hospitals are up to capacity and the essential work force don't drop dead in a month. Awe, man. This is the worst apocalypse scenario, the slow drop into incremental worsening outcomes with the good outcomes always blocked by time. It'd make for a fantastic Sci-fi novel but yeah, fuck this. There's too many people on the damn planet for an economic depression and there is no way out of it without gambling the whole fucking system on either side of the viruses walls. It's such a cosmic joke that Kenny Rogers died this month.

As someone who is working at the pharma business I want to explane a few things here to make clear why its not possible to force companies to produce something at once: 

- If you want to produce a medicine, you have to show very clear that you are able to produce it without problems. That means you have to produce 3 lots of it without mistakes, have them tested by gouvermental laboratorys and make stable-tests to show that they don't get bad after short times. (Not to mention studys for new meds, lets assume that at your exemple, that is done before.)

- Machines are very different depending on what you are producing. To make an easy example: There are liquida and solida. You can't produce a liqida vaccination on machines that are build for solida tablets. 

- Your workers have to be certificated to produce a med on a specific line. This is no 99% work, it is always 100,00%. If you make mistakes, people die. So pharma producers have to make sure that there are no mistakes. You can't chance production line and product from day to day. 



Eagle367 said:
John2290 said:

Oh yes you can blame someone when they've drove that car countless times after crashing it.

Now, I fon't blame them pre industrial but ffs, regulate your citizens who are handling livestock and regulate them hard after the Russian flu, Hong kong flu but definetly after Sars, swine flu etc cause you don't have any excuses after that point in modern history. Maybe ban eating live Animals for one. We in the west regulate farmers for this reason, diseases among animals taking out another farmers livestock taking the forefront but this is also a majour reason and it works.

China needs to pay reparations for this shit, maybe wipe debt from the countries they've wronged here and maybe, just maybe they will start regulating livestock and live animal trading this time around. If we are all still standing globally at the end of this. 

This graph is sketchy as hell. The black plague that ravaged Europe started in china? What are the sources for all these?

Experts believe it came from there but reading about it I wouldn't blame anyone for the black plague, the plague of Justinian and so on. 



John2290 said:
S.Peelman said:

Let's not get carried away here.

I'm not getting carried away. We can't buy our way out of this and the debt has already extended far further than it can go, not that most nations had money lying around anyway. The Global economy is gone with near certainty, some the nations, like America are doing exactly what Venezuela did and buying themselves into hyper inflation and diaster. You go the other end and do nothing we all die sooner but with a bang. Poorer nations are going to be put in this scenario with no other option and little to no help becuase the rest of the world is dealing with their own countries, not in enough time anyway. There isn't many ways to navigate this besides giving up all freedom to a complete global world government as soon as possible and even then, what, we pool everything together and live with socalism on a level greater than China for the rest of our lives. Most likely we return to soverign nations with no financial reason for any one of them not to go to war but all the reasons in the world to do so. The famines? They are a certainty unless by some miracle Covid decides not to touch the third world and completely avoid taking out workers who grow and produce food. Thier countries, our countries, all countries. Unless you have land, stuff to produce on that land, a gun, strong and willing people around you and well away from cities, you're life is going to get extremly harsh relatively fast. The nect decade is going to be torture and we all know it, some just keep their head in the sand and stringing onto hope. 

I thought you stopped instantly going into doom mode whenever you see a bad headline.

Just enjoy your time at home and have some nice hot tea. Because you know what's the number 1 thing that will bring down any economy? Doomsday theories. They cause people to hoard money, which will exponentially accelerate economic collapse.

Last edited by vivster - on 27 March 2020

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