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Welfare on 02 February 2020

NPD hasn't used 8th/7th gen for years. Hardware is considered either current or legacy.



Won bet with t3mporary_126 - I correctly predicted that the Wii U's LTD at the end of 2014 would be closer to 9 million than 10 million. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6673287

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LGBTDBZBBQ on 02 February 2020
AlbiNecroxz said:
Switch is Gen 8.5, period.

/s or maybe not :)

Gen 8 - WiiU, 3DS, Vita, PS4, and XB1
Gen 8.5 - Switch(March 2017), PS4pro(November 2016), and Xbox One X(November 2017)

The best part, Switch itself is in a hybrid generation so it can be either gen 8 or gen 9. 



curl-6 on 02 February 2020

The two most pointless, stupid, and the done-to-death arguments on VGhartz:

- "The Switch is [x] gen."

- "The Switch is a handheld/console/hybrid."

Last edited by curl-6 - on 03 February 2020

Welfare on 03 February 2020
RolStoppable said:
Welfare said:
NPD hasn't used 8th/7th gen for years. Hardware is considered either current or legacy.

I don't remember NPD ever using numbers to describe generations.

I remember them changing to the current/legacy distinction a few years ago, so they did something before then.

Basically just means that whatever is currently selling is "current" so NPD can't be used as an argument towards Switch being 8th gen. Going forward, who really cares as the numbering is meaningless now anyway. Today it's just "here's a group of machines that are viable for business right now." and that will change over the years.



Won bet with t3mporary_126 - I correctly predicted that the Wii U's LTD at the end of 2014 would be closer to 9 million than 10 million. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6673287

Nu-13 on 04 February 2020
Shadow1980 said:
zorg1000 said:

Current gen=/=gen 8, it means the current devices on the market. I cannot recall NPD, Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft ever referring to generations by numbers.

It should be obvious from the language used in the press releases that they are comparing the Switch's LTD sales to the PS4 & XBO, and that the NPD therefore considers the Switch to belong to the same generation as the PS4 & XBO.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

This post is a mess.  But now I see that your misunderstanding about the Switch comes from a misunderstanding of console history.  The short version is that Atari 2600, 5200, and 7800 were 3 different generations.

If that's the case, then we might as well get rid of numbered generations entirely, because there's no way you could split those three into three separate generations and have them make sense, unless you believe that Gen 2 is actually two separate gens, in which case you think either A) everybody's been getting it wrong on the numbers for the post-Crash generations, or B) you think the Pong machines era was either not a generation or was a "Gen Zero."

Nu-13 said:

That's all nice but has nothing to do with generations. A systems's gen is set in stone the moment it releases. Switch came too long after the start of the 8th gen, therefore it's 9th gen. Ps5 and xsx are coming too long after the start of the 9th gen, therefore they will be 10th gen. Eventually everyone will agree on that due to different reasons.

*heavy sigh*

No. Just... no. I mean, Switch the sole Gen 9 console, and Sony & MS skip Gen 9 and go straight to Gen 10? You started this whole off-topic argument, and this ends up being what you expect us to accept? Really? Really?

This is exactly why I consider NPD far more authoritative than the opinions of random forum-dwellers.

RolStoppable said:

You missed the portion in Nintendo's press releases where it's explicitly stated that the statement is according to NPD. If I personally relay information and therefore say that Switch was the best-selling current generation hardware according to NPD, then that isn't at odds with my stance that Switch does not belong to the same generation as the 3DS and the Wii U, because I am merely stating which classification someone else uses.

As for the rest of your long post, logical consistence demands that you call the Dreamcast a generation 5 console, putting it into the same generation as the Saturn. As long as you do not explicitly do that, I won't bother to write a more elaborate response.

Why all that struggle? Generations aren't console wars. It doesn't affect anyone's ego. It merely classifies stuff according to their release period.



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Replicant on 04 February 2020
Nu-13 said:
Shadow1980 said:

It should be obvious from the language used in the press releases that they are comparing the Switch's LTD sales to the PS4 & XBO, and that the NPD therefore considers the Switch to belong to the same generation as the PS4 & XBO.

If that's the case, then we might as well get rid of numbered generations entirely, because there's no way you could split those three into three separate generations and have them make sense, unless you believe that Gen 2 is actually two separate gens, in which case you think either A) everybody's been getting it wrong on the numbers for the post-Crash generations, or B) you think the Pong machines era was either not a generation or was a "Gen Zero."

*heavy sigh*

No. Just... no. I mean, Switch the sole Gen 9 console, and Sony & MS skip Gen 9 and go straight to Gen 10? You started this whole off-topic argument, and this ends up being what you expect us to accept? Really? Really?

This is exactly why I consider NPD far more authoritative than the opinions of random forum-dwellers.

Why all that struggle? Generations aren't console wars. It doesn't affect anyone's ego. It merely classifies stuff according to their release period.

You don't know Shadow that well, do you?

He's not the console wars kinda guy. He's into sales analysis. That's why I think it's silly to imply that he has an agenda labelling the Switch 8th/9th gen.



The_Liquid_Laser on 04 February 2020

Shadow1980 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

This post is a mess.  But now I see that your misunderstanding about the Switch comes from a misunderstanding of console history.  The short version is that Atari 2600, 5200, and 7800 were 3 different generations.

If that's the case, then we might as well get rid of numbered generations entirely, because there's no way you could split those three into three separate generations and have them make sense, unless you believe that Gen 2 is actually two separate gens, in which case you think either A) everybody's been getting it wrong on the numbers for the post-Crash generations, or B) you think the Pong machines era was either not a generation or was a "Gen Zero."

"Generation 2" actually is two separate generations.  I just call them "Generation 2" and "Crash Generation".  The Atari 5200, Colecovision and Vectrex were part of the "Crash Generation".

I also wouldn't say "everybody" is getting it wrong.  I would say Wikipedia is getting it wrong when it comes to Generation 2.  If you go to retro gaming forums where they still celebrate the Atari 2600, then they consider the 5200 to be next gen.  Among people who were old enough and actually care the 2600 and 5200 are considered separate generations.  Younger people get it wrong because they don't know and/or don't care.



curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox

LGBTDBZBBQ on 04 February 2020

Year 3000, the first contact with an alien species.

VGChartz December NPD thread: Switch is gen ******!



Bofferbrauer2 on 04 February 2020

I'd consider Switch to be Gen 8.5, along with the PS4 Pro and XBX

Precedence? Yeah, during 4th gen, and plenty of them. Both of mid-term upgrades (32X, SupergraphX) and late starters (Philips CDi, 3DO, Pioneer LaserActive, Commodore CDTV). All those are considered 4th gen, but could be split up into two tiers due to this.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

The_Liquid_Laser on 04 February 2020
Bofferbrauer2 said:
I'd consider Switch to be Gen 8.5, along with the PS4 Pro and XBX

Precedence? Yeah, during 4th gen, and plenty of them. Both of mid-term upgrades (32X, SupergraphX) and late starters (Philips CDi, 3DO, Pioneer LaserActive, Commodore CDTV). All those are considered 4th gen, but could be split up into two tiers due to this.

Problems with this reasoning.

1) Switch is not an upgrade.  32X and SupergraphX were a lot like the Move and Kinect of Generation 7.  All of those are upgrades.  Switch is not an upgrade.

2) The "late starters" are all systems that no one cares about.  You can put them in any generation you want and no one really cares.  They didn't compete against other consoles, because no one really bought them.  It's like asking which generation had the Virtual Boy.  No one cares.

Switch is already selling like a top-tier console.  People care what generation it's in.  What systems is it competing against (if any)?  That is one type of question that people answer based on how they view generation.  In truth, wow a person a categorizes the Switch reveals how they interpret the market place.  That is why this is an important question. (Not calling you out on this specifically.  I started replying to your post and now I'm just getting up on a soapbox.)

What I have observed is typical for people on this site is that they make predictions, then they are wrong, and then they don't change their assumptions.  That is not a terribly scientific way of thinking.  (A scientist changes their view when their prediction is wrong.  That is how the scientific method works.)  People thought the Switch selling 40m lifetime was optimistic.  Then the Switch sales showed that was 40m was really very pessimistic.  But then people still don't go back and change their assumptions.  Why were the predictions so low in the first place?  What wrong assumption was that based on?  People never ask that, so they keep getting the assumption wrong.  (Hint: one very common faulty assumption is never considering the handheld market, and that is one bad assumption of several.)

So that is why getting the Switch's generation right matters.  At least it should matter to people who want to actually make accurate predictions. 

Last edited by The_Liquid_Laser - on 04 February 2020

curl-6 bet me that PS5 + X|S sales would reach 56m before year end 2023 and he was right.
My Bet With curl-6

My Threads:
Master Thread, Game of the Year/Decade
Switch Will Be #1 All Time
Zelda Will Outsell Mario (Achieved)
How Much Will MH Rise sell?
My Bet With Metallox