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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

So you’re going to ignore the part where he literally says take use of the best tech available to spin something else into a zany theory you have with zero substance. Gotcha.



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LudicrousSpeed said:
So you’re going to ignore the part where he literally says take use of the best tech available to spin something else into a zany theory you have with zero substance. Gotcha.

He's talking about pc gaming and how games push high-end pc's, while still running fine on ancient hardware, like Gears 5 for example. If you agree with him depends if you think that having the exact same game running in native 4k/60fps and a bumb in superficial graphics settings is the best way to push these next gen consoles. Personally, I disagree. For me the tech would be much better used in a game that's targeted at 30fps/1080p and has Pixar quality ray rracing, a boost in geometry, better ai, physics, world simulations etc. In short, a game that would set the Xone on fire if you tried to run it.   

Last edited by goopy20 - on 17 February 2020

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Wait, so the narrative has shifted now to this idea that Microsoft won't push the tech in the XSX for 3 years because they're aiming for mass market PC users? What the fuck.

It's what I've been saying for weeks now lol. But not just mass market pc. Their aim is offering GP on as many devices as possible, including: main stream pc, Xone, X1X, Lockhart, probably a streaming box, phones and also Series X. MEanwhile, they're talking about the Series X as something that's meant for players who want that "plus-plus-plus", instead of their main mass market console. We will see, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's priced as a niche product at $599 or higher.

The reason why I think MS's 1st party studios will not push the Series X anytime soon, though, is that GP is not targeting the same market as the Series X. Instead it's for a much wider audience who don't care about "plus-plus-plus" and either have a Xone, a main-stream pc, or never even bought a console in their life. I mean don't you think there's some contradiction with announcing a beastly Series X console and then saying all their exclusives will be cross-gen? I'm not making this shit up here, this is a literal quote from the mighty Phil Spencer himself...

"Obviously we built our strategy with Series X, we started with that in mind – we wanted to go build a gaming console that was going to be the absolute best that we could deliver on a television, and deliver unique capability to creators that they could use to go create the best games. But you don’t want to do that to the exclusion of everybody else and you also want to do that hand-in-hand with developers because developers want to find the widest audience possible. And yes, there are always trade-offs. I’m not gonna dictate to every third-party studio what they have to support, but what we see in today’s world is that gamers want to go and play games with their friends regardless of what device those friends are on, people want to have the largest selection of games open to them, and developers want to make use of the best technology that’s available. We built this plan with all three of those as inputs and we feel really good about where we are.  

Any trade off is a moot point because Sony can’t make full use of the PS5 at launch. Unless it can, which it won’t, this argument has no substance. 

That’s some nice propaganda about GP users not caring about “Plus Plus Plus”. I played Gears 5 on my Xbox X. A lot of games are Xbox X optimized so your argument is simply false. 

Game Pass is for people who don’t have the disposable income to play all the games they would want. They are tired of buying new and trading in for a fraction. It’s for people who don’t buy games at launch because it’s trendy and are willing to wait for a price drop (or in this case, come to GP). Game Pass is just a way for MS to capitalize on a enduring subscription as opposed to buying games outright. GP gamers also spend more time gaming in general. You seriously can’t be more wrong about GP. It’s meant to reach a wider audience of gamers on console and PC but it’s all still core gamers. Because the games are all core games, many enhanced for Xbox X specs and likely will have series X enhanced ones at launch). 

Again they have to make their services better then Sony’s to stick out, hence day 1 availability. Their loss this gen is my gain. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 17 February 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

It's what I've been saying for weeks now lol. But not just mass market pc. Their aim is offering GP on as many devices as possible, including: main stream pc, Xone, X1X, Lockhart, probably a streaming box, phones and also Series X. MEanwhile, they're talking about the Series X as something that's meant for players who want that "plus-plus-plus", instead of their main mass market console. We will see, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's priced as a niche product at $599 or higher.

The reason why I think MS's 1st party studios will not push the Series X anytime soon, though, is that GP is not targeting the same market as the Series X. Instead it's for a much wider audience who don't care about "plus-plus-plus" and either have a Xone, a main-stream pc, or never even bought a console in their life. I mean don't you think there's some contradiction with announcing a beastly Series X console and then saying all their exclusives will be cross-gen? I'm not making this shit up here, this is a literal quote from the mighty Phil Spencer himself...

"Obviously we built our strategy with Series X, we started with that in mind – we wanted to go build a gaming console that was going to be the absolute best that we could deliver on a television, and deliver unique capability to creators that they could use to go create the best games. But you don’t want to do that to the exclusion of everybody else and you also want to do that hand-in-hand with developers because developers want to find the widest audience possible. And yes, there are always trade-offs. I’m not gonna dictate to every third-party studio what they have to support, but what we see in today’s world is that gamers want to go and play games with their friends regardless of what device those friends are on, people want to have the largest selection of games open to them, and developers want to make use of the best technology that’s available. We built this plan with all three of those as inputs and we feel really good about where we are.  

Any trade off is a moot point because Sony can’t make full use of the PS5 at launch. Unless it can, which it won’t, this argument has no substance. 

That’s some nice propaganda about GP users not caring about “Plus Plus Plus”. I played Gears 5 on my Xbox X. A lot of games are Xbox X optimized so your argument is simply false. 

Game Pass is for people who don’t have the disposable income to play all the games they would want. They are tired of buying new and trading in for a fraction. It’s for people who don’t buy games at launch because it’s trendy and are willing to wait for a price drop (or in this case, come to GP). Game Pass is just a way for MS to capitalize on a enduring subscription as opposed to buying games outright. GP gamers also spend more time gaming in general. You seriously can’t be more wrong about GP. It’s meant to reach a wider audience of gamers on console and PC but it’s all still core gamers. Because the games are all core games, many enhanced for Xbox X specs and likely will have series X enhanced ones at launch). 

Again they have to make their services better then Sony’s to stick out, hence day 1 availability. Their loss this gen is my gain. 

Of course, Sony can make full use of the ps5 at launch, that's whole point of developing for a closed platform. If it will be their best games, we don't know. We just have to wait for the ps5 reveal too see what their 1st party studios been working on for years now.

And yes "plus-plus-plus" is nice. I also own a ps4 pro and I think the HDR, higher res and fps was worth the upgrade. But it still plays the exact same games as the base ps4 and I can totally understand that only a small minority felt the need to upgrade to a mid-gen console. 



goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Any trade off is a moot point because Sony can’t make full use of the PS5 at launch. Unless it can, which it won’t, this argument has no substance. 

That’s some nice propaganda about GP users not caring about “Plus Plus Plus”. I played Gears 5 on my Xbox X. A lot of games are Xbox X optimized so your argument is simply false. 

Game Pass is for people who don’t have the disposable income to play all the games they would want. They are tired of buying new and trading in for a fraction. It’s for people who don’t buy games at launch because it’s trendy and are willing to wait for a price drop (or in this case, come to GP). Game Pass is just a way for MS to capitalize on a enduring subscription as opposed to buying games outright. GP gamers also spend more time gaming in general. You seriously can’t be more wrong about GP. It’s meant to reach a wider audience of gamers on console and PC but it’s all still core gamers. Because the games are all core games, many enhanced for Xbox X specs and likely will have series X enhanced ones at launch). 

Again they have to make their services better then Sony’s to stick out, hence day 1 availability. Their loss this gen is my gain. 

Of course, Sony can make full use of the ps5 at launch, that's whole point of developing for a closed platform. If it will be their best games, we don't know. We just have to wait for the ps5 reveal too see what their 1st party studios been working on for years now.

And yes "plus-plus-plus" is nice. I also own a ps4 pro and I think the HDR, higher res and fps was worth the upgrade. But it still plays the exact same games as the base ps4 and I can totally understand that only a small minority felt the need to upgrade to a mid-gen console. 

Okay, let me see if I understand this. You found found a reason to purchase a PS4 pro, which is 2.5x more powerful than the base PS4, to play the same games with some enhancements. Yet, you say that X1 owners don't have a reason to upgrade to Series X (which is supposed to be 8x more powerful than base X1)  Ehh.. I'm kinda lost here.



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goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Any trade off is a moot point because Sony can’t make full use of the PS5 at launch. Unless it can, which it won’t, this argument has no substance. 

That’s some nice propaganda about GP users not caring about “Plus Plus Plus”. I played Gears 5 on my Xbox X. A lot of games are Xbox X optimized so your argument is simply false. 

Game Pass is for people who don’t have the disposable income to play all the games they would want. They are tired of buying new and trading in for a fraction. It’s for people who don’t buy games at launch because it’s trendy and are willing to wait for a price drop (or in this case, come to GP). Game Pass is just a way for MS to capitalize on a enduring subscription as opposed to buying games outright. GP gamers also spend more time gaming in general. You seriously can’t be more wrong about GP. It’s meant to reach a wider audience of gamers on console and PC but it’s all still core gamers. Because the games are all core games, many enhanced for Xbox X specs and likely will have series X enhanced ones at launch). 

Again they have to make their services better then Sony’s to stick out, hence day 1 availability. Their loss this gen is my gain. 

Of course, Sony can make full use of the ps5 at launch, that's whole point of developing for a closed platform. If it will be their best games, we don't know. We just have to wait for the ps5 reveal too see what their 1st party studios been working on for years now.

And yes "plus-plus-plus" is nice. I also own a ps4 pro and I think the HDR, higher res and fps was worth the upgrade. But it still plays the exact same games as the base ps4 and I can totally understand that only a small minority felt the need to upgrade to a mid-gen console. 

Except they can’t. Never been done. Compare Resistance Fall of Man to Last of Us. Or Perfect Dark Zero to Halo 4. Night and day use of the hardwares capabilities. Sure you can say “but at least Sony is trying”....ya trying ain’t succeeding. Which has again never been done. 

The point was that any game that is Xbox X enhanced and is also on GP is there for anybody who has the console for it. When Halo Infinite drops, you will download the appropriate version depending on your hardware. XB1, Xbox X, Series X....the specs scale to the hardware and TV you have. Your argument was that GP will limit the specs to mass market hardware when that simply is not true. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

Of course, Sony can make full use of the ps5 at launch, that's whole point of developing for a closed platform. If it will be their best games, we don't know. We just have to wait for the ps5 reveal too see what their 1st party studios been working on for years now.

And yes "plus-plus-plus" is nice. I also own a ps4 pro and I think the HDR, higher res and fps was worth the upgrade. But it still plays the exact same games as the base ps4 and I can totally understand that only a small minority felt the need to upgrade to a mid-gen console. 

Okay, let me see if I understand this. You found found a reason to purchase a PS4 pro, which is 2.5x more powerful than the base PS4, to play the same games with some enhancements. Yet, you say that X1 owners don't have a reason to upgrade to Series X (which is supposed to be 8x more powerful than base X1)  Ehh.. I'm kinda lost here.

Good catch. Watch him say it’s just a minority of gamers and MS is more concerned “with reaching as many gamers as possible”. 

Despite core gamers by the millions caring about power with the endless multiplat comparisons every gen...



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

twintail said:
sales2099 said:

Any trade off is a moot point because Sony can’t make full use of the PS5 at launch. Unless it can, which it won’t, this argument has no substance. 

While making full use of the PS5 at launch is an improbability, there is nothing stopping Sony, and other devs, from making better use of the PS5 than we see from MS on XSX. 

And I think that will play a part in the discussion closer to launch. Will MS's decision result in compromises to either the X1 or XSX versions of games, or will they be able to utilize the tech from both as well as can be executed? And how will PS5 games compare?

For now all we can do is guess based on the limited info we have at hand. Hopefully by the end of E3 we will have a better grasp on this scenario. 

The argument goes both ways. 3rd parties can do what they like with Series X hardware and if so have more power to ply with. But you right, this will be speculated until we actually see evidence. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
So you’re going to ignore the part where he literally says take use of the best tech available to spin something else into a zany theory you have with zero substance. Gotcha.

He's talking about pc gaming and how games push high-end pc's, while still running fine on ancient hardware, like Gears 5 for example. If you agree with him depends if you think that having the exact same game running in native 4k/60fps and a bumb in superficial graphics settings is the best way to push these next gen consoles. Personally, I disagree. For me the tech would be much better used in a game that's targeted at 30fps/1080p and has Pixar quality ray rracing, a boost in geometry, better ai, physics, world simulations etc. In short, a game that would set the Xone on fire if you tried to run it.   

No he isn’t. Instead of bolding one sentence in a long interview and taking it out of context and twisting it into something it isn’t actually saying, try to read the whole interview. You’d have to be going in reading that interview with your mind made up about your zany theory for you to come away thinking MS isn’t going to take advantage of XSX hardware. I mean, how much clearer does The Xboss have to be for you to understand? He’s said hardware is the most important aspect of the business. They gave us the Scorpio. They’re giving us the Series X. He’s sitting right here in this interview you’re pulling quotes from saying they want to take advantage of the hardware of XSX and that devs do too.

Outside of your obvious bias, I think all of this just boils down to you not understanding how games are made. You’ve already tried to say that Cyberpunk will be drastically altered and content cut just because current gen consoles supposedly struggle with it. You’ve been shown that even Sony had a metric fuckton of cross gen content and were still fine. Nothing is going to make you see reason. You’re going to sit with your tin foil hat repeating your crazy theories no matter how much sense we try to talk into you 🤷🏻‍♂️



LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

He's talking about pc gaming and how games push high-end pc's, while still running fine on ancient hardware, like Gears 5 for example. If you agree with him depends if you think that having the exact same game running in native 4k/60fps and a bumb in superficial graphics settings is the best way to push these next gen consoles. Personally, I disagree. For me the tech would be much better used in a game that's targeted at 30fps/1080p and has Pixar quality ray rracing, a boost in geometry, better ai, physics, world simulations etc. In short, a game that would set the Xone on fire if you tried to run it.   

No he isn’t. Instead of bolding one sentence in a long interview and taking it out of context and twisting it into something it isn’t actually saying, try to read the whole interview. You’d have to be going in reading that interview with your mind made up about your zany theory for you to come away thinking MS isn’t going to take advantage of XSX hardware. I mean, how much clearer does The Xboss have to be for you to understand? He’s said hardware is the most important aspect of the business. They gave us the Scorpio. They’re giving us the Series X. He’s sitting right here in this interview you’re pulling quotes from saying they want to take advantage of the hardware of XSX and that devs do too.

Outside of your obvious bias, I think all of this just boils down to you not understanding how games are made. You’ve already tried to say that Cyberpunk will be drastically altered and content cut just because current gen consoles supposedly struggle with it. You’ve been shown that even Sony had a metric fuckton of cross gen content and were still fine. Nothing is going to make you see reason. You’re going to sit with your tin foil hat repeating your crazy theories no matter how much sense we try to talk into you 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'm not making this up man. This quote comes from a podcast where he's talking about their next gen strategy, which is "putting the player in the center, not the devices." They're all about finding new gamers and tapping into the 4 billion gamers that play on a ton of different devices. And yes, the games will scale up to high-end devices like Series X or high-end pc, but that's not the same as building exclusives that really push the next-gen tech. That's more like playing on XB1X, ps4 pro or pc, which obviously does look a bit better but developers will always be limited in what they can do with the hardware because they don't want to alienate the base ps4/Xone gamers where 95% of the sales are coming from. But hey, if you think I'm making it up listen to it yourself (7 - 11m mark) https://audioboom.com/posts/7496771-interview-with-phil-spencer-about-the-past-present-future-of-xbox

He's saying there will be trade offs in developing games as he isn't going to dictate what developers will support. This is normal and we will will obviously see a ton of cross-gen 3rd party games the first year or two. But they do have a say in what their own 1st party developers are focusing on and that's obviously not high-end pc's or the Series X. Hence, the whole "all games will be cross-gen" statement. What this all means is that Sony will be the only one pushing next gen tech with their exclusives and those games will simply allow developers to do things that weren't possible on current gen. If that will make them better games remains to be seen. At worst they will be glorified tech-demo's with poor ratings, but they will still get people excited for the next gen.