Forums - Gaming Discussion - Games that were too good for their own good.

JWeinCom said:
SanAndreasX said:

Trials of Mana. That was the peak of its series.

Tales of Vesperia was probably peak Tales. That was the last game that had a full world map and the unadulterated influence of Team Symphonia. The ones since have been mostly good, but they haven't made it to the level of either Vesperia or Symphonia. Maybe Arise will be the Tales series' Monster Hunter World in terms of impact.

Eidos-era Tomb Raider peaked with Tomb Raider 2. After that the series sank like a stone until the 2013 reboot.

I think that Symphonia was the peak for Tales, but I also liked Vesperia alot.  Only other one I played was Abyss which was incredibly meh.  Oh and Symphonia 2 which was shit.

I generally agree with this opinion, but with the added comment that for me Berseria is a return to form. I like it as much as I liked Vesperia back then. All games in between them feel like a complete downgrade. 



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SanAndreasX said:

Eidos-era Tomb Raider peaked with Tomb Raider 2. After that the series sank like a stone until the 2013 reboot.

Indeed. The first two games were fantastic, and it was a gradual decline after that until Angel of Darkness became the nadir of the entire series. I do like the Crystal Dynamics trilogy though.

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 is easily the best of the franchise, and everything since has failed to live up to that benchmark. There were refinements and experiments in future titles, but nothing was ever as fun as this one.



RedKingXIII said:
Metal Gear Solid. I don't think the rest of the MGS games are bad , far from it-- it's just... There's something great and special about the first one and this is not present in the other games. I don't know how to explain exactly, but... I think it's the atmosphere, music and the overall aesthetics of the game. I know it sounds weird but seeing the low poly characters with the weird PS1 warp textures is great, and... I think it really adds to the atmosphere of the game? The soundtrack is really different from the other games too, probably because they changed the composers. So... yeah. Metal Gear Solid.

I kinda agree with you. Especially since the story was so well executed, the bosses were so epic, and the characters were so memorable BUT for years I swore Metal Gear Solid 3 was the greatest game of all time. It still might be but I haven't played it in a while. I could see a lot of people saying MGS1, though. It set an incredibly high standard that even its own remake couldn't overcome.



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Moren said:
Reading some of these - I think BioShock.

The original was heralded as a game that saved and refreshed single-player FPS games. It was one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time.

The pressure of living up to the original may have created development issues and sky-high costs with Infinite. I thought it was a fantastic game that stood on its own. But at the end of the day, it didn't perform well enough to keep Irrational Games alive.

I would rather pick the ones that Bioshock tries to imitate, namely System Shock 1+2



SanAndreasX said:
JWeinCom said:

I think that Symphonia was the peak for Tales, but I also liked Vesperia alot.  Only other one I played was Abyss which was incredibly meh.  Oh and Symphonia 2 which was shit.

Symphonia is my favorite as well,  but Vesperia came very, very close. They also nailed the presentation. Graces was when they started using paths between major areas instead of a proper world map. I've liked most of the games since then, but I really want to either see another Vesperia or see Arise have a drawn-to-scale world map along the lines of the last two console Dragon Quest games. 

Landale_Star said:

Where is the love for Children of Mana? I agree though, the Mana series needs a good new game to follow up the remake of Trials. Agree with Tales too, Symphonia and Vesperia seem to stand out a whole lot more than any of the others to me.

I never played CoM, but I definitely was not impressed with either Legend or Dawn of Mana. I did enjoy Sword of Mana, the remake of FFA, because it was redone in the style of Trials, though I definitely wouldn't say it's as good as Trials.

I was joking about CoM, it's not that great. I thought it was ok, but I haven't felt the need to replay it since it released. It wasn't a return to form, that's for sure.



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Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, maybe. There hasn't been another game like it in terms of gameplay afterward in the Paper Mario series. The fact that it was so amazing makes Paper Mario's changes all the more sad.



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S.Peelman said:
Not an early game in the series, but I’m afraid that Smash Ultimate will suffer from this. With so much content and ‘everyone is her’ plus more, where can they go for Smash 6?

Melee suffered from this before, not for content but rather depth. Melee still remains one of the deepest fighting games ever created. There is so much tech in that game its mind boggling. People are still figuring out thing to this day. There is a reason its competitive is still active and growing.  



KratosLives said:
probably devil may cry, the original. It;s been a letdown to me since.

I can't agree more! 3, 4 and 5 were all good in their own right, but different from the original. The first one was quite spooky and so rich in atmosphere. Also Dante seemed less capable and less of a jokster. It was not so over the top and therefore grounded. It was just the best. And no other iteration could ever quite continue from the original.

I really wish capcom would have used the Character V in DMCV better. He was slow and ill and vulnerable. The perfect setup for something more deliberate and scary. But this seems just not the direction they want to take the series. Regrettable.

But the first one being so good also worked in favor for the series. I bought every single one except DMC, so maybe it was not even too good for its own good. The following parts were not outright worse (except 2) but just very different



Vodacixi said:
Super Smash Bros. Brawl. After Subspace Emisary, any other single player mode they have come up with feels like shit.

Also, Kingdom Hearts. The first one. I feel like everything went downhill from there. Not only it has my favourite combat in the series, but unlike the future titles... it's worth for more than its combat. You had platforming sections, puzzles... also your allies seemed to keep up with you pretty much all the time. They were able to take care of enemies themselves and even do significant damage to bosses.

All of that was lost in the future titles. Cutscene, walk, battle, walk, battle, cutscene, miniboss, cutscene, walk, battle, walk, boss. And that's it. And allies are completely powerless. By the end of the game, they won't even be able to keep up with you because you can fly, dash and roll mid air and they can't. They seem like a joke...

The first one seemed like such a good concept pulled off perfectly. The next iterations were a mess on many different fronts. The story of the first, just to name an example, was a bit vague, but told sensitively with believable charakters and motivations you could follow.

In the third main installment (playing it right now) even many of the main charakters seem to be unable to follow the fumbled mess of a plot. The story is a joke and it is impossible for me to invest anything in it. AND it is told sooooo poorly. 



2D Mario peaked at Super Mario World.
The fact that anything after this one can be describe as "it's good ol' Mario platforming" without any change that could make it standout none other than "new" speaks volume to me.
I'm still hoping they'll bring the guns for the next main 2D game with a much needed drastic change à la Super Mario Land 2 (Kinda)



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