Forums - Movies Discussion - The Rise of BS - Star Wars Epi 9 SPOILERS

Let me start this off by pointing reminding those who don't know that I've held a very positive view of (most of) the recent Star Wars movies. The Last Jedi was, in fact, the best Star Wars installment to date as far as I'm concerned and I will die on that hill if need be. I loved Rey and Kylo Ren and Rose and Finn and the portrayal of Leia in The Last Jedi, loved the pacing, the emotion, the score, the creatures, the narrative twists and turns, the philosophy conveyed, the humor, the epic send-off that Luke got, and so much more about that movie whether the internet appreciates it or not! So when I went to see The Rise of Skywalker today, I was legitimately excited and approaching it with an open mind as to how this saga might conclude. I knew this one reverted to the direction of J.J. Abrams and that that would be different from what Rian Johnson had brought to the table, but also knew that I really enjoyed The Force Awakens for its own merits as well and felt quite intrigued by the trailers for The Rise of Skywalker. Then I saw the movie.

I can officially confirm that what I saw today was THE worst Star Wars movie out of the 11 live-action entries I've seen so far. It's worse than Solo, The Phantom Menace, and Attack of the Clones, and a jarring insult to everything that has made the current crop of Star Wars films great up to now. Allow me to explain why I feel this way by guiding you through the movie in a nutshell.

WARNING: I'm going to spoil the hell out of this movie below because nobody deserves to go into this film unprepared for just how awful it is like I did.

The best part of The Rise of Skywalker came right away: the full 32 minutes of trailers before the opening text scrawl. The text scrawl opens with a line like "The dead return!", and then it goes on explaining a bunch of highly arbitrary developments in about that same quality for a few paragraphs, none of which makes any sense and is frankly an insult to the viewer's intelligence. Worst text scrawl in the franchise, by which I mean that I could personally have done better. So that's how it starts.

From there, the film moves at a lightning pace from brief action scene to brief action scene with nary any explanation for about 25 minutes, then it abruptly terminates. And by this I mean that you're simply thrown into a scene without explanation or context. Like B-movie quality. Before the end of this 25 minute period, I was already seriously considering walking out of the theater, but narrowly resisted the temptation. Anyway, after that point, the film finally launches into what passes for a narrative, the bottom line of which is that Palpatine has been brought back, as we know, but not as a ghost like a reasonable person might have suspected. Instead, he's been brought back as a clone, which makes no sense whatsoever considering that clones aren't the same people. Clones don't actually have the same memories and personalities as the original subject just because they have the same basic DNA. This film does not understand that.

So anyway, after Rose is quickly written out of the main adventure because #StarWarsFans hated her, our remaining all-male-plus-Rey team flies off to...you know what I forget what the hell their mission even was, it's that contrived and forgettable. Anyway, this leads to a bunch more B-quality abrupt action scene drops that go on for about half the remainder of the movie. And also, C-3PO gets brain surgery done while conscious like in Spock's Brain almost because apparently he's got a secret message about Palpatine's Sith planet no one knows the location of in his memory banks in the Sith language that his programming inexplicably forbids him from translating because it's Sith. Meanwhile, Kylo Ren is slaughtering a bunch of people for no reason because he's angry about nothing.

THEN! Kylo and Rey contact each other again like in The Last Jedi, except with maybe 2% the writing quality. So anyway, through these contacts, Kylo, for no reason and without prompting, explains Rey's origins while they fight a lightsaber battle by spirit. Rey is actually Palpatine's granddaughter somehow it turns out, which is why she seems to have all this power and special connection to the Dark Side. Will she fight it? (Duh.) And she's also, the film goes on to reveal, apparently furthermore a Skywalker too somehow and also related to Kylo Ren apparently, whom she winds up falling in romantic love with (as in they lip-lock) despite the fact that they are apparently biologically related. (I might have gotten some of that wrong just there because it was revealed in very confusing ways that were so convoluted I couldn't fully follow them, but that's the general idea as best I could grasp it.)

I still don't know who Palpatine's partner was or who his kids (i.e. Rey's parents) were. That was revealed technically, but I couldn't follow it because it was so subtle and vague. I'm sure a true fan who seriously micro-analyzes these movies and also follows everything about the franchise outside of the films too could get it. Someone with that level of Star Wars devotion could probaby figure it out.

Anyway, then comes the Batman v. Superman-inspired scene. (I was told that one of the writers also helped write Batman v. Superman and that makes a lot of sense to me in connection to this scene I'm about to summarize.) Rey and Kylo fight IRL and their qualm with each other is brought to an end by a "Martha" moment wherein it's revealed that they're both related to Leia apparently too. Also, Leia dies during this scene by trying to contact Kylo through telepathy. She doesn't actually say anything, but it's implied that they made contact in some way and then she abruptly dies because apparently that was too much strain on her and after all Padme died because she "lost the will to live", so why not? She's quickly covered and memorialized and the film moves on in the course of about 30 seconds. So that was her big send-off. Not exactly as memorable as Luke's. Luke does appear again, speaking of which, and mercifully as a spirit and not a zombie clone. At least J.J. Abrams had that much sense. One apparently can't take it for granted.

THEN! The ultimate battle! They make it to the Sith homeworld that I forget the name of!

Palpatine is confronted and some sorry excuse for a play on the conclusion in Return of the Jedi ensues. Except that while it's apparently converting to the Dark Side to kill Palpatine, killing him winds up being the solution anyway and also automatically kills all the other Sith creatures on the planet by lightning as a side effect. This is when Rey and Kylo fall in love and lock lips before he's killed off despite being apparently biologically related. (The audience audibly gasped at this scene.) So they day is saved when an entire people are killed off, YaY, genocide heroism.

The film then moves to a celebration scene before Rey goes back to a hut I think that is supposed to be Luke's on Tatooine and buries her two lightsabers (did I mention she gets two?) and, asked about her family name, she proclaims "I...am a Skywalker" (though I still don't know exactly how she is one), whereupon a ghostly visage of Luke and Leia appears in the distance and Rey walks off into the sunset, the end, the credits roll, like anyone should want credit for this monstrosity.

Also, the camera angles are frequently god-awful, as in like titled sideways "for effect" that makes no sense at all. Also also, there is humor in this movie too, but it lands only about a third of the time or so. A lot less often than that in The Last Jedi caused an audience reaction.

There. I have ranted. I feel like they should just start this movie over. Like Disney and Lucasfilm should just declare The Rise of Skywalker non-canonical and remake episode 9 from the ground up over the next several years, changing everything. Nothing in this movie should be allowed to become Star Wars canon. I give it a 0.5 stars out of 5, as in I'd rather they just have stopped making Star Wars films after The Last Jedi and left us hanging forever than conclude in this way.

Here are the 11 Star Wars movies I've seen, ranked in order of my personal preference:

1) The Last Jedi
2) Revenge of the Sith
3) The Empire Strikes Back
4) The Force Awakens
5) A New Hope
6) Return of the Jedi
7) Rogue One
8) Solo
9) The Phantom Menace
10) Attack of the Clones
11) The Rise of Skywalker

(Yeah, I know, you may be noticing my preference for some of the darker entries. That may be just me. People remark about that sometimes. Whatevs.)

Well anyhow, maybe there is some ironic value to this movie though, as I think it will anger everyone from hardcore Star Wars fans to family-oriented conservative activists to feminists to just plain lovers of good movies and, in that way, begin to end the protracted culture war that this generation of Star Wars entries has sparked by establishing at least one area of consensus. It's like the anti-Frozen: it's got something to irk everyone. It's all but completely soulless and feels like they invested the absolute minimum of intellectual and emotional effort into it that they possibly could.

Sorry this post wasn't very well-written tonight. This was pretty stream-of-consciousness.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 22 December 2019

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It seems those who loved TLJ really hated this one.



KLAMarine said:
It seems those who loved TLJ really hated this one.

I think almost anyone who sees this movie will dislike it, or at least consider it the weakest Star Wars film installment to date.

Some hard evidence can be found in the PostTrak scoring of opening day moviegoers and CinemaScore polling of opening day moviegoers. By both of those metrics, The Rise of Skywalker is the most disliked entry in the Star Wars franchise. Even the first two prequel movies were better liked by moviegoing audiences.



Jaicee said:

Let me start this off by pointing reminding those who don't know that I've held a very positive view of (most of) the recent Star Wars movies. The Last Jedi was, in fact, the best Star Wars installment to date as far as I'm concerned and I will die on that hill if need be. I loved Rey and Kylo Ren and Rose

This is where I stopped.

To be fair, though, of course every TLJ fan is going to hate the new one. It was made with a very clear and specific purpose to be the anti-TLJ, to the point where all the actors and staff involved seemed to be pointing fingers at TLJ in every interview they made. Obviously, that isn't wholly wrong, because TLJ is a terrible movie, but you can't hope to be creating an exciting trilogy when the third movie is trying to undo everything the second movie did - which, to be fair, was already trying to undo everything the first one did. This whole trilogy was a massive fiasco, there was never any planning involved, just committee decisions on what would make the most money. All three movies filled with loads of shallow fanservice, with barely any substance to show for it. "Have an issue in your story? Just throw *insert random character from the OG trilogy here* and there you go, problem solved!" That was the mentality throughout the whole thing - TLJ probably being the one that least did this, but it still was an offender with that Yoda scene which was super uncalled for, and in its attempt at "subverting expectations" over another old character, ruined that character.

I don't know why I'm bothered to come talk about it, to be honest, but yeah. A massive trainwreck, this thing. I feel sorry for those who enjoyed TLJ, not only because of their poor taste, but also because it means they got spat in the face for no good reason. Any person with a decent taste would've given up on the franchise already, at least let the TLJ fans get something since they're the only ones who still care - and consequently, don't make the trilogy's continuity issues even worse in the process.



mZuzek said:
Jaicee said:

Let me start this off by pointing reminding those who don't know that I've held a very positive view of (most of) the recent Star Wars movies. The Last Jedi was, in fact, the best Star Wars installment to date as far as I'm concerned and I will die on that hill if need be. I loved Rey and Kylo Ren and Rose

This is where I stopped.

To be fair, though, of course every TLJ fan is going to hate the new one. It was made with a very clear and specific purpose to be the anti-TLJ, to the point where all the actors and staff involved seemed to be pointing fingers at TLJ in every interview they made. Obviously, that isn't wholly wrong, because TLJ is a terrible movie, but you can't hope to be creating an exciting trilogy when the third movie is trying to undo everything the second movie did - which, to be fair, was already trying to undo everything the first one did. This whole trilogy was a massive fiasco, there was never any planning involved, just committee decisions on what would make the most money. All three movies filled with loads of shallow fanservice, with barely any substance to show for it. "Have an issue in your story? Just throw *insert random character from the OG trilogy here* and there you go, problem solved!" That was the mentality throughout the whole thing - TLJ probably being the one that least did this, but it still was an offender with that Yoda scene which was super uncalled for, and in its attempt at "subverting expectations" over another old character, ruined that character.

I don't know why I'm bothered to come talk about it, to be honest, but yeah. A massive trainwreck, this thing. I feel sorry for those who enjoyed TLJ, not only because of their poor taste, but also because it means they got spat in the face for no good reason. Any person with a decent taste would've given up on the franchise already, at least let the TLJ fans get something since they're the only ones who still care - and consequently, don't make the trilogy's continuity issues even worse in the process.

Why respond to my review if you're not going to read it? What gives you the right? Being the raccoon?

Look, contrary to the impression you might get online, I'm far from alone in the fact of enjoying The Last Jedi. The film has an average review score of 81% of Rotten Tomatoes and 85% on Metacritic, which are among the highest scores of any film released in 2017. I suspect that those professional film critics probably know a few more things about quality filmmaking than you do. But it wasn't just critics. According to scientific polling of opening day moviegoers by SurveyMonkey, 89% of moviegoers themselves had a positive opinion of The Last Jedi, with self-described hardcore Star Wars having the most positive opinions of all, and a similar survey of moviegoers by ComScore and Screen Engine saw audiences give the film a rare, full five-star rating, beating out The Force Awakens. (Sorry #StarWarsFans hashtag peeps, but you're NOT representative.) So I'm far from alone in appreciating TLJ is my point.

I'm not sure you're someone who can appreciate, or even necessarily understand, things like pacing, tension, or character development, or have a sense of humor, but many people out there do. The Last Jedi is appreciated by many above all because it's the most character-driven Star Wars movie. If you can't appreciate that in a film, then okay, but suggesting that there's simply no substance to the most substantive and least commercial entry in the franchise is frankly absurd and ridiculous.



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Jaicee said:
mZuzek said:

This is where I stopped.

To be fair, though, of course every TLJ fan is going to hate the new one. It was made with a very clear and specific purpose to be the anti-TLJ, to the point where all the actors and staff involved seemed to be pointing fingers at TLJ in every interview they made. Obviously, that isn't wholly wrong, because TLJ is a terrible movie, but you can't hope to be creating an exciting trilogy when the third movie is trying to undo everything the second movie did - which, to be fair, was already trying to undo everything the first one did. This whole trilogy was a massive fiasco, there was never any planning involved, just committee decisions on what would make the most money. All three movies filled with loads of shallow fanservice, with barely any substance to show for it. "Have an issue in your story? Just throw *insert random character from the OG trilogy here* and there you go, problem solved!" That was the mentality throughout the whole thing - TLJ probably being the one that least did this, but it still was an offender with that Yoda scene which was super uncalled for, and in its attempt at "subverting expectations" over another old character, ruined that character.

I don't know why I'm bothered to come talk about it, to be honest, but yeah. A massive trainwreck, this thing. I feel sorry for those who enjoyed TLJ, not only because of their poor taste, but also because it means they got spat in the face for no good reason. Any person with a decent taste would've given up on the franchise already, at least let the TLJ fans get something since they're the only ones who still care - and consequently, don't make the trilogy's continuity issues even worse in the process.

Why respond to my review if you're not going to read it? What gives you the right? Being the raccoon?

Yes, that's precisely why. I'm glad you understand.

Of course I know you're not alone in enjoying TLJ, I know many people who do. But the movie is hot garbage. The rest of your post is basically just a direct attack on my taste and critical thinking, which is only fine since I already attacked yours. No harm taken.



Jaicee said:
KLAMarine said:
It seems those who loved TLJ really hated this one.

I think almost anyone who sees this movie will dislike it, or at least consider it the weakest Star Wars film installment to date.

That's what I expected, after everything I heard. So halfway through, I was surprised to find that I didn't absolutely hate the film. But I still fully expected something to completely ruin it for me, similar to how I felt about what they did to Luke's character in TLJ.
Especially because I specifically heard someone say "If you like ****, you're going to hate this film." But that character wasn't even in the film, and I'm still not sure what he meant by that.

This movie was about as bad as Episode 7 for me, but I liked it a bit more due to better fan service. I didn't hate it.
I didn't hate Epi 7 either, but there was also nothing about it that I liked. It was just boring. There were at least a few things I liked in this one though.

So I go online and post some of my thoughts on Epi 9, and I see people here commonly express very similar opinions as my self. Even after seeing it and not hating it, that surprised me. Because I had heard almost nothing but bad things about it, and critics dislike it.

But looking at Rotten Tomatoes, currently the situation seems reversed from TLJ.

For TLJ critics generally liked it, and fans disliked it.
Now critics dislike this one, and fans like it.

I didn't read your entire OP yet, but I will probably tomorrow.

My ranking of the films would probably be:

1) The Empire Strikes Back
2) Return of the Jedi
3) Revenge of the Sith

4) A New Hope
5) Attack of the Clones
6) The Rise of Skywalker
7) The Force Awakens
8) The Phantom Menace
9) The Last Jedi

I used to like Phantom Menace more, almost entirely due to Darth Maul. But after seeing that fight again in recent years, I think it was choreographed poorly, so now it bothers me whenever I see it.

Last edited by Hiku - on 22 December 2019

While I agree that The Rise of Skywalker ranks among the worst SW films ever for sheer stupidity in its screenplay, I think a more interesting topic is how do you justify your completely misguided and wrong positive adjetives for TLJ.



Sorry, but I automatically disregard the opinion of anyone who says that The Last Jedi is their favorite Star Wars movie, because that movie isn’t even Star Wars. By any possible measure it feels nothing like any other movie in the series, it is completely incongruent with the series. It tries to ruin everything that JJ set up in 7, it assassinates Luke’s character, it’s poorly plotted, it retcons established lore, it introduces a character even more annoying than Jar Jar. I can not think of any other movie in any other series that committed so many sins.

My personal ranking for the Star Wars movies.

1. Return of the Jedi

2. Empire Strikes Back

3. Revenge of the Sith

4. Rogue One

5. The Phantom Menace

6. Solo

7. Rise of Skywalker

8. Attack of the Clones

9. A New Hope

10. The Clone Wars

11. The Force Awakens

13. The Last Jedi

Yes, I hate TLJ so much that I skipped 12 and gave it unlucky number 13.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 22 December 2019

KLAMarine said:
It seems those who loved TLJ really hated this one.

I liked TLJ, But I liked ROS even more.