Quantcast
Next Gen has arrived, PC gamer also need an upgrade. Xbox Series X specs will be the minimum requirement for next 7 years

Forums - PC Discussion - Next Gen has arrived, PC gamer also need an upgrade. Xbox Series X specs will be the minimum requirement for next 7 years

Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

Hasn't it been confirmed that these next gen consoles come with a 1tb SSD? Surely, MS and Sony wouldn't be making such a fuss about it if it wouldn't help loading times and assets streaming. When SSD becomes baseline with next gen - game design will change with it. That's the difference compared to SSD we see now on pc where games are designed with HDD in mind. Next gen games will no longer have to hide loading screens behind closed doors and corridors and can speed up openworld gameplay. Building games with ssds in mind is a big deal and it's something we haven't quite seen before.

It's been confirmed that Next-Gen consoles will have Ryzen 2, Navi, Ray Tracing and SSD's. Nothing else has come from either horses mouth (Sony or Microsoft.)
The rest is rumor.

How big the SSD is and whether it has an included mechanical drive or supports them externally is still actually an unknown.

Also false, we have seen this before. - Take the Nintendo 64 for example it's DRAM had 562.5 MB/s of bandwidth, it's carts had 264MB/s of potential bandwidth (Which is at-least 4x faster than the Xbox One/Playstation 4's internal HDD!)
Comparatively the PS1 had 0.3MB/s of bandwidth from it's optical disk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_technical_specifications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_technical_specifications

So we should see a similar situation that we saw with the Nintendo 64 in how assets are streamed in and handled, it allowed for more effective use of limited DRAM buffers, which next-gen consoles aren't likely to see a big generational leap on, making it even more vital. - It's not an issue the PC shares as NAND isn't a replacement for DRAM at the end of the day.

Obviously games and data sets are exponentially larger and more complex than the Nintendo 64 days, but the point remains.

I don't think the purpose of the SSD or if there will be hdd support is a rumor anymore. MArk Cerny talked pretty detailed about it and is calling the ssd a game changer and the key to the next generation. 

"Cerny claims that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs. That’s not all. “The raw read speed is important,“ Cerny says, “but so are the details of the I/O [input-output] mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them. I got a PlayStation 4 Pro and then I put in a SSD that cost as much as the PlayStation 4 Pro—it might be one-third faster." As opposed to 19 times faster for the next-gen console, judging from the fast-travel demo."

It's true that the N64 also had almost zero loading times but this next gen SSD's are obviously meant for vastly more complex open world game design. It's up to the developers what they'll do with it, but I'm guessing games like a new BF, Apex Legends, Fortnite, Halo etc. gonna look pretty awesome.  



Around the Network
Chazore said:
Skeeuk said:

Just imagine a 2070 even in a console with a half decent cpu it will perform amazingly. I've a feeling next gen consoles will be special the price of entry will have many people going from pc to console. 

4k/60fps ultra @ £499 is better then 4k/60fps ultra @ £999

Except we had heard this exact same phrase before and at the start of this gen and that didn't really happen.

Consoles aren't going to suddenly take a massive chunk, if any sizeable chunk away, from a platform that's constantly adapting and coming out with multiple pieces of HW.

You're probably right. Still, you have to admit that these next gen consoles do look a lot more impressive compared to the ps4/Xone specs when they launched. When the Ps4 and Xone launched most pc gamers already had a superior gaming rig with a much better cpu. And even if they were still using a 560GTX they could pick up a 660GTX for like $150. With these next gen consoles it seems like you're going to have to spend a lot more if you want a similar or better spec pc.  



goopy20 said:

You're probably right. Still, you have to admit that these next gen consoles do look a lot more impressive compared to the ps4/Xone specs when they launched. When the Ps4 and Xone launched most pc gamers already had a superior gaming rig with a much better cpu. And even if they were still using a 560GTX they could pick up a 660GTX for like $150. With these next gen consoles it seems like you're going to have to spend a lot more if you want a similar or better spec pc.  

I'd be more impressed if they were starting out high end, rather than trying to save on certain parts here and there. My own rig already contains multiple SSD's, with me already looking into going for an NVME next year. I'll be impressed when a console manages to do what it says on the tin, going for 4k 60fps, while also allowing for the higher end settings spectrum. I've waited years at a time for draw distances and object detail to pick up the pace. I hope next gen manages to actually increase that by a country mile, or I'll be waiting another 10ish years.

I'm also wanting to see AI greatly improved, which has nothing to do with the visual side of things, but I am hoping next gen systems manage to handle an increase in AI management, as well as supporting more than a few at a given time. The only games where we see multiple AI at a time are sim based games, ones that make use of multiple threads and cores.

I'm not really going to be spending that much more for the parts I've already had my eyes on. Price has never really been a deciding factor for me, unless it's between multiple hw brands (non console). My own rig as it stands is still better than current gen, and come next gen, mine will still be sitting above the other two systems.

I see where you're coming from with that last sentence, but that's not going to induce some terrible spiral in the hw market, where suddenly every part is expensive, thus making next gen look desirable with it's price point. You need to remember that we've more choices to go for in the hw market, and PC parts don't stay at the same price forever either. The only two times the hw market has suffered, is either due to production facilities taking up the parts, thus raising the price thanks to production factory demands, and the bitcoin craze, both of which have since simmered down.



                                       

Chazore said:
goopy20 said:

You're probably right. Still, you have to admit that these next gen consoles do look a lot more impressive compared to the ps4/Xone specs when they launched. When the Ps4 and Xone launched most pc gamers already had a superior gaming rig with a much better cpu. And even if they were still using a 560GTX they could pick up a 660GTX for like $150. With these next gen consoles it seems like you're going to have to spend a lot more if you want a similar or better spec pc.  

I'd be more impressed if they were starting out high end, rather than trying to save on certain parts here and there. My own rig already contains multiple SSD's, with me already looking into going for an NVME next year. I'll be impressed when a console manages to do what it says on the tin, going for 4k 60fps, while also allowing for the higher end settings spectrum. I've waited years at a time for draw distances and object detail to pick up the pace. I hope next gen manages to actually increase that by a country mile, or I'll be waiting another 10ish years.

I'm also wanting to see AI greatly improved, which has nothing to do with the visual side of things, but I am hoping next gen systems manage to handle an increase in AI management, as well as supporting more than a few at a given time. The only games where we see multiple AI at a time are sim based games, ones that make use of multiple threads and cores.

I'm not really going to be spending that much more for the parts I've already had my eyes on. Price has never really been a deciding factor for me, unless it's between multiple hw brands (non console). My own rig as it stands is still better than current gen, and come next gen, mine will still be sitting above the other two systems.

I see where you're coming from with that last sentence, but that's not going to induce some terrible spiral in the hw market, where suddenly every part is expensive, thus making next gen look desirable with it's price point. You need to remember that we've more choices to go for in the hw market, and PC parts don't stay at the same price forever either. The only two times the hw market has suffered, is either due to production facilities taking up the parts, thus raising the price thanks to production factory demands, and the bitcoin craze, both of which have since simmered down.

Well, we can't expect miracles from a console. After all they are build for mass market and nobody would buy a console if it was $800 or more. It does look like these consoles will launch at a bit higher price point compared to current gen (guessing $599) So that is actually pretty good and the specs are pretty impressive even compared to a modern gaming pc. Guess we have to wait and see but I'm definitely expecting bigger draw distances and more complex level design. I'm not expecting native 4k at 60fps, especially if they're using Ray Tracing as standard. But that's what pc's are for if you buy a RTX3xxx later on. 



goopy20 said:

Well, we can't expect miracles from a console. After all they are build for mass market and nobody would buy a console if it was $800 or more. It does look like these consoles will launch at a bit higher price point compared to current gen (guessing $599) So that is actually pretty good and the specs are pretty impressive even compared to a modern gaming pc. Guess we have to wait and see but I'm definitely expecting bigger draw distances and more complex level design. I'm not expecting native 4k at 60fps, especially if they're using Ray Tracing as standard. But that's what pc's are for if you buy a RTX3xxx later on. 

Well at this point we really should, because these aren't the same companies from the 80/90's anymore. They have the clout, the resources and the connections to make 4k 60 a reality, it's just that they don't want to overspend, let alone a little off the top for their millions of adoring fans/customers. Last gen Sony overspent, and their CPU was mostly seen as rather "alien" to most devs, save for some of their first party, but now we're past that, as modern hw nowadays isn't full on custom like the Cell CPU was, or consoles during gens prior to this one.

We've got hw out there that's available to millions, so I'm not sure why it has to be trimmed down significantly. Why trim back what is already out there?, for the sake of the masses?, no, it's for the sake of their already overstuffed coffers. Look at Nintendo for example, they always tend to not spend as much on their hw compared to the other two, and even if it sells like crap, they manage to make bank back. Nintendo gave up on the reach for higher end hw since the GC days, because they saw what a lesser unit could do (PS2) as well as how much it sold, and now they are living in their own bubble, with no desire to feel or be forced back into that ring again.

Meanwhile the other two are trying to play PC, and we know they can do that song & dance, it's that they choose not to bother with the whole dance routine.

Mate, people buy the latest iphone, the latest Apple anything, and those go for well over $800, both the masses and those working in designer industries, and Apple just rakes it on in. There are cars out there that go for far much more than the average low end car does, and yet plenty of people still buy those. Plenty of people shell out for tickets to a con, with less chances of being able to play test those demos. Plenty of people pay for first class for holidays, or even to go to those cons.

A console costing £800 is the least of your worries, because it, like many an entertainment product, is a luxury. If you cannot afford said luxury you simply save for it, or stick with what you've got. Look at me, I'm saving for a better CPU next year, waiting for the upcoming models, rather than going for something from last yr or the year before. I've the patience to wait and save, or even wait for prices to come down, and well, since this world has sales in just about every medium, so can the masses, and they do (Black friday, Cyber monday, boxing day sales etc, all which garner the masses to spend, spend, spend).

A modern gaming PC isn't defined by a single spec, and I'm sure Pem has told you this already. There are modern specs out there like mine that simply outrank/out-power these fabled specs from next gen systems.

I'm not interested in RT of any sort, because I know that tech is still in it's infancy. I'll have interest within the next 6 years, when it's reached maturity and widely adopted/perfectly (and I cannot stress that enough, to a T) executed.

4k 30 was being used in marketing for this gen, so 4k60 can be the goal for next gen, rather than 1080p 30 for 2-3 gens in a row, because let's not have consoles repeat that process 2-3 times in a row again, but with 4k/30, because that's stagnant and irksome for someone like me, who wishes for that side to pick up the pace. 



                                       

Around the Network
Chazore said:
goopy20 said:

Well, we can't expect miracles from a console. After all they are build for mass market and nobody would buy a console if it was $800 or more. It does look like these consoles will launch at a bit higher price point compared to current gen (guessing $599) So that is actually pretty good and the specs are pretty impressive even compared to a modern gaming pc. Guess we have to wait and see but I'm definitely expecting bigger draw distances and more complex level design. I'm not expecting native 4k at 60fps, especially if they're using Ray Tracing as standard. But that's what pc's are for if you buy a RTX3xxx later on. 

Well at this point we really should, because these aren't the same companies from the 80/90's anymore. They have the clout, the resources and the connections to make 4k 60 a reality, it's just that they don't want to overspend, let alone a little off the top for their millions of adoring fans/customers. Last gen Sony overspent, and their CPU was mostly seen as rather "alien" to most devs, save for some of their first party, but now we're past that, as modern hw nowadays isn't full on custom like the Cell CPU was, or consoles during gens prior to this one.

We've got hw out there that's available to millions, so I'm not sure why it has to be trimmed down significantly. Why trim back what is already out there?, for the sake of the masses?, no, it's for the sake of their already overstuffed coffers. Look at Nintendo for example, they always tend to not spend as much on their hw compared to the other two, and even if it sells like crap, they manage to make bank back. Nintendo gave up on the reach for higher end hw since the GC days, because they saw what a lesser unit could do (PS2) as well as how much it sold, and now they are living in their own bubble, with no desire to feel or be forced back into that ring again.

Meanwhile the other two are trying to play PC, and we know they can do that song & dance, it's that they choose not to bother with the whole dance routine.

Mate, people buy the latest iphone, the latest Apple anything, and those go for well over $800, both the masses and those working in designer industries, and Apple just rakes it on in. There are cars out there that go for far much more than the average low end car does, and yet plenty of people still buy those. Plenty of people shell out for tickets to a con, with less chances of being able to play test those demos. Plenty of people pay for first class for holidays, or even to go to those cons.

A console costing £800 is the least of your worries, because it, like many an entertainment product, is a luxury. If you cannot afford said luxury you simply save for it, or stick with what you've got. Look at me, I'm saving for a better CPU next year, waiting for the upcoming models, rather than going for something from last yr or the year before. I've the patience to wait and save, or even wait for prices to come down, and well, since this world has sales in just about every medium, so can the masses, and they do (Black friday, Cyber monday, boxing day sales etc, all which garner the masses to spend, spend, spend).

A modern gaming PC isn't defined by a single spec, and I'm sure Pem has told you this already. There are modern specs out there like mine that simply outrank/out-power these fabled specs from next gen systems.

I'm not interested in RT of any sort, because I know that tech is still in it's infancy. I'll have interest within the next 6 years, when it's reached maturity and widely adopted/perfectly (and I cannot stress that enough, to a T) executed.

4k 30 was being used in marketing for this gen, so 4k60 can be the goal for next gen, rather than 1080p 30 for 2-3 gens in a row, because let's not have consoles repeat that process 2-3 times in a row again, but with 4k/30, because that's stagnant and irksome for someone like me, who wishes for that side to pick up the pace. 

It would be nice if graphics options were configurable like they are for PC. If you don't want higher resolution or faster frame rate, for the sake of ray tracing then you should have that choice. If you prefer instead 4k/60 fps at the expense of ray tracing, then have that option too.




It would be nice if graphics options were configurable like they are for PC. If you don't want higher resolution or faster frame rate, for the sake of ray tracing then you should have that choice. If you prefer instead 4k/60 fps at the expense of ray tracing, then have that option too.

Yeah, but if you want that you could, like, I dunno, get a PC? =D

Consoles keep it simple. It's a big selling point for them. Otherwise Microsoft would just slap together some middle class PC, call it an XBox, get Windows 10 running on it and call it a day. But instead, they keep developing an own OS for the thing and everything.



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

Chazore said:
goopy20 said:

Well, we can't expect miracles from a console. After all they are build for mass market and nobody would buy a console if it was $800 or more. It does look like these consoles will launch at a bit higher price point compared to current gen (guessing $599) So that is actually pretty good and the specs are pretty impressive even compared to a modern gaming pc. Guess we have to wait and see but I'm definitely expecting bigger draw distances and more complex level design. I'm not expecting native 4k at 60fps, especially if they're using Ray Tracing as standard. But that's what pc's are for if you buy a RTX3xxx later on. 

Well at this point we really should, because these aren't the same companies from the 80/90's anymore. They have the clout, the resources and the connections to make 4k 60 a reality, it's just that they don't want to overspend, let alone a little off the top for their millions of adoring fans/customers. Last gen Sony overspent, and their CPU was mostly seen as rather "alien" to most devs, save for some of their first party, but now we're past that, as modern hw nowadays isn't full on custom like the Cell CPU was, or consoles during gens prior to this one.

We've got hw out there that's available to millions, so I'm not sure why it has to be trimmed down significantly. Why trim back what is already out there?, for the sake of the masses?, no, it's for the sake of their already overstuffed coffers. Look at Nintendo for example, they always tend to not spend as much on their hw compared to the other two, and even if it sells like crap, they manage to make bank back. Nintendo gave up on the reach for higher end hw since the GC days, because they saw what a lesser unit could do (PS2) as well as how much it sold, and now they are living in their own bubble, with no desire to feel or be forced back into that ring again.

Meanwhile the other two are trying to play PC, and we know they can do that song & dance, it's that they choose not to bother with the whole dance routine.

Mate, people buy the latest iphone, the latest Apple anything, and those go for well over $800, both the masses and those working in designer industries, and Apple just rakes it on in. There are cars out there that go for far much more than the average low end car does, and yet plenty of people still buy those. Plenty of people shell out for tickets to a con, with less chances of being able to play test those demos. Plenty of people pay for first class for holidays, or even to go to those cons.

A console costing £800 is the least of your worries, because it, like many an entertainment product, is a luxury. If you cannot afford said luxury you simply save for it, or stick with what you've got. Look at me, I'm saving for a better CPU next year, waiting for the upcoming models, rather than going for something from last yr or the year before. I've the patience to wait and save, or even wait for prices to come down, and well, since this world has sales in just about every medium, so can the masses, and they do (Black friday, Cyber monday, boxing day sales etc, all which garner the masses to spend, spend, spend).

A modern gaming PC isn't defined by a single spec, and I'm sure Pem has told you this already. There are modern specs out there like mine that simply outrank/out-power these fabled specs from next gen systems.

I'm not interested in RT of any sort, because I know that tech is still in it's infancy. I'll have interest within the next 6 years, when it's reached maturity and widely adopted/perfectly (and I cannot stress that enough, to a T) executed.

4k 30 was being used in marketing for this gen, so 4k60 can be the goal for next gen, rather than 1080p 30 for 2-3 gens in a row, because let's not have consoles repeat that process 2-3 times in a row again, but with 4k/30, because that's stagnant and irksome for someone like me, who wishes for that side to pick up the pace. 

I hear you and I would also love to see Sony and MS release a $999 console. But the problem is that the masses probably aren't going to spend that kind of money on it and without a massive install base, there would be a lot less support from developers.

The beauty of consoles is that they are affordable, sell like 100m units and developers can optimize their games completely for the hardware that's in those things. 4k 60fps might sound great on paper but it would basically mean we would be playing the same games as this gen in 4k instead of raising the bar in overall visual fidelity.

Since most people sit 8ft away from their tv, they would hardly be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4k. That's why I'm hoping that the games will be optimized for 30fps (60fps for certain genres), 1080p and build from the ground up around Ray Tracing support. If people would just be able to turn off something like Ray Tracing, developers wouldn't be able to fully make use of it anymore and make it an essential part of the gameplay experience. Instead, Ray Tracing would just be like it's on pc right now. A shiny feature that doesn't really add anything to the games.  



ManUtdFan said:

It would be nice if graphics options were configurable like they are for PC. If you don't want higher resolution or faster frame rate, for the sake of ray tracing then you should have that choice. If you prefer instead 4k/60 fps at the expense of ray tracing, then have that option too.

It would be, but then I'd honestly just recommend grabbing yourself a custom rig.

I just believe the big 3 need to go big or go bust, because they seem to suffer some form of setback each gen, be it visually or be it performance woes. They always seem to set themselves bars they cannot fully achieve, mostly because they do not want to break the bank and chance it working out for them.

I still think RT is a few years off from being refined though, but that's not gonna stop us from seeing games taking shots using it though. 



                                       

goopy20 said:

I hear you and I would also love to see Sony and MS release a $999 console. But the problem is that the masses probably aren't going to spend that kind of money on it and without a massive install base, there would be a lot less support from developers.

The beauty of consoles is that they are affordable, sell like 100m units and developers can optimize their games completely for the hardware that's in those things. 4k 60fps might sound great on paper but it would basically mean we would be playing the same games as this gen in 4k instead of raising the bar in overall visual fidelity.

Since most people sit 8ft away from their tv, they would hardly be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4k. That's why I'm hoping that the games will be optimized for 30fps (60fps for certain genres), 1080p and build from the ground up around Ray Tracing support. If people would just be able to turn off something like Ray Tracing, developers wouldn't be able to fully make use of it anymore and make it an essential part of the gameplay experience. Instead, Ray Tracing would just be like it's on pc right now. A shiny feature that doesn't really add anything to the games.  

I remember seeing some modular designed PC years ago, one that literally had each part encased in a small plastic style box, that could easily slot into the main base system, which made it look like a modular PC. I thought that design alone was something that consoles could have gone with, because then it would have opened up new avenues for customers to experiment with. Instead all we have atm is the ability to swap out a drive, and use a K+M for some games.

They should release a console on the side for that much, because then it actually gives you the option of what you personally want to go for. Currently in the open hw market we have a myriad of parts to choose, ranging from low to medium and high end expenses, which is good, because then you have choices to make, rather than say only 1-2 choices, with both not yielding all that great returns. 

The thing is, a console can be affordable to some, but then you then have to account for the other two consoles as well as their "refresher" systems. Add all those up and it goes above the price of a 1k custom rig, and then you've got the online subs to pay for access to online, and that adds up as well, while with PC you just pay your regular internet bill and have your custom rig, which you wouldn't need to constantly upgrade (provided you're not stupid with decision making).

4k60fps sounds great on paper, as well as it being a reality. It's not some fabled concept that's non obtainable, it's that the big 3 don't care for it, because they know they'll have to reach into their coffers a bit deeper, but that's on them, not the customer. Also in terms of optimisation, it's more about taking things back a bit, rather than working some black magic. 

Playing the same game from 4k to 6k isn't going to be making much of a difference, and staying at 30fps is definitely not going to look great for another 10+yrs either. There's a reason why we're seeing more support for 4k monitors with higher than 60hz refresh rates now, rather than monitor manufacturers deciding to just stick with 4k 60hz monitors for years on end.

RT will eventually reach a point where it becomes baseline, just like how certain tech was once an option used by the few, that has now become baseline. It'll happen with time, just not at it's current state.