Forums - Politics Discussion - Official Thread: The Impeachment of President Donald Trump

Locknuts said:
Machiavellian said:

I agree that I am making an assumption on how you view Trump.  

You state that if the Dems can find evidence of his intentions then all is good.  I am wondering how you seem to dismiss all the sworn in testimony by the people directly involved in the whole situation.  So in a criminal investigation when they cannot find the gun that killed someone but they have sworn in testimony of people directly involved in the incident and they not only show intent but also every move up to the incident and after that shows what the person did, how is that not enough.  What you are basically saying is that as long as the gun is not found, then its ok, and you are willing to throw out everything else.

Isn't sworn in testimony important in understanding something like this situation.  A person do not have to come out and actually state like some comic book villain what their intention is, people who willing to go under oath and testify to what they seen and heard is how we get to the truth.  Can these people be lying, yes they can and as was shone by Mueller, liars can be found guilty and prosecuted.

The President had every opportunity to find witnesses to counter what these people stated but not only did he not produce any, even the Republican witnesses could not do the same.  I am not sure what else you may need but I hope its not depending on Trump base to find some excuse to his action.  Excuses are very easy to come by as we have seen during the impeachment trial but excuses is all they turned out to be.

The difference between a murder case and this is that corruption by US Officials (Biden) is Trump's business. His base believe he was just doing his job. We need someone to testify to his intentions.

The latest data show that Americans have started to reject impeachment:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

If nobody can testify that Trump wanted Biden investigated not because of corruption but because he is a rival, then Trump looks like the victorious underdog in this whole thing and wins 2020.

Thats mentall gymnastics and you know it.
"he believes he was doing his job" 

No he doesnt.... this is a excuse, that apparently people buy into, because they feel it justifies him breaking laws.
Apparently the american people dont care if a president follows laws or not.



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Locknuts said:
Machiavellian said:

I agree that I am making an assumption on how you view Trump.  

You state that if the Dems can find evidence of his intentions then all is good.  I am wondering how you seem to dismiss all the sworn in testimony by the people directly involved in the whole situation.  So in a criminal investigation when they cannot find the gun that killed someone but they have sworn in testimony of people directly involved in the incident and they not only show intent but also every move up to the incident and after that shows what the person did, how is that not enough.  What you are basically saying is that as long as the gun is not found, then its ok, and you are willing to throw out everything else.

Isn't sworn in testimony important in understanding something like this situation.  A person do not have to come out and actually state like some comic book villain what their intention is, people who willing to go under oath and testify to what they seen and heard is how we get to the truth.  Can these people be lying, yes they can and as was shone by Mueller, liars can be found guilty and prosecuted.

The President had every opportunity to find witnesses to counter what these people stated but not only did he not produce any, even the Republican witnesses could not do the same.  I am not sure what else you may need but I hope its not depending on Trump base to find some excuse to his action.  Excuses are very easy to come by as we have seen during the impeachment trial but excuses is all they turned out to be.

The difference between a murder case and this is that corruption by US Officials (Biden) is Trump's business. His base believe he was just doing his job. We need someone to testify to his intentions.

The latest data show that Americans have started to reject impeachment:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

If nobody can testify that Trump wanted Biden investigated not because of corruption but because he is a rival, then Trump looks like the victorious underdog in this whole thing and wins 2020.

How is corruption by Biden is Trump business.  There is actually nothing that says corruption within another country is the sole purpose of the president and even if there were, the people under him swore he only cared if there was a public declaration of it.  He care nothing about whether something actually was done. 

Either way, if this is the president business then we have all the proper channels to handle it but instead we have Trump personal lawyer doing the work.  When you can answer why Trump personal lawyer is the one doing the work you probably have a point.  Actually, Giuliani is the achilles heels to this whole dumb stunt.  He is what makes something that Trump could have easily not shone personal and political bias but sending Giuliani to handle the business tells a different story.  Then you have Giuliani going on record saying he was doing the President business as his lawyer doesn't help as well.  I guess its easy to just throw that part out because he did not testify but man would I love for him to take the stand on the Senate trial.  

Not sure what makes you think something like this will auto win Trump for 2020.  There is one thing that these polls do not say, does this affect your vote in 2020.  People may support impeachment but not him being removed from office.  I know a few people in my circle believe he did wrong but not enough to be removed from office.  Now as to whether this will decide if they vote for Trump in 2020, well the 2 does not correspond with each other.

There is a long way to go before we even get to that date and outside of just getting impeached he will have to show he is still fit.  I personally cannot wait to see him debate anyone come that time if some of his rallies is any indication of his mental health.



JRPGfan said:
Locknuts said:

But which sworn testimony are you referring to?

US Ambassador Gordon Sondland.

He testified that Rudy Giulani was acting as the "voice of the president" and he was just doing his job.
That Trump knew and wanted, a quid pro quo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDNcnlaKIhk  (this one is the one to watch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Le5ZYMNbE

So he Guliani made him think a quid pro quo was what the Trump wanted, but then Trump directly told him 'no quid pro quo':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_c17vxrPWQ

This Sondland guy needs to get his story straight.



Machiavellian said:
Locknuts said:

The difference between a murder case and this is that corruption by US Officials (Biden) is Trump's business. His base believe he was just doing his job. We need someone to testify to his intentions.

The latest data show that Americans have started to reject impeachment:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

If nobody can testify that Trump wanted Biden investigated not because of corruption but because he is a rival, then Trump looks like the victorious underdog in this whole thing and wins 2020.

How is corruption by Biden is Trump business.  There is actually nothing that says corruption within another country is the sole purpose of the president and even if there were, the people under him swore he only cared if there was a public declaration of it.  He care nothing about whether something actually was done. 

Either way, if this is the president business then we have all the proper channels to handle it but instead we have Trump personal lawyer doing the work.  When you can answer why Trump personal lawyer is the one doing the work you probably have a point.  Actually, Giuliani is the achilles heels to this whole dumb stunt.  He is what makes something that Trump could have easily not shone personal and political bias but sending Giuliani to handle the business tells a different story.  Then you have Giuliani going on record saying he was doing the President business as his lawyer doesn't help as well.  I guess its easy to just throw that part out because he did not testify but man would I love for him to take the stand on the Senate trial.  

Not sure what makes you think something like this will auto win Trump for 2020.  There is one thing that these polls do not say, does this affect your vote in 2020.  People may support impeachment but not him being removed from office.  I know a few people in my circle believe he did wrong but not enough to be removed from office.  Now as to whether this will decide if they vote for Trump in 2020, well the 2 does not correspond with each other.

There is a long way to go before we even get to that date and outside of just getting impeached he will have to show he is still fit.  I personally cannot wait to see him debate anyone come that time if some of his rallies is any indication of his mental health.

It's not his only job obviously, but it's not outside the scope of his duties. How he went about it though...yeah that's dodgy. Not necessarily illegal, but suspicious.



Locknuts said:
Machiavellian said:

How is corruption by Biden is Trump business.  There is actually nothing that says corruption within another country is the sole purpose of the president and even if there were, the people under him swore he only cared if there was a public declaration of it.  He care nothing about whether something actually was done. 

Either way, if this is the president business then we have all the proper channels to handle it but instead we have Trump personal lawyer doing the work.  When you can answer why Trump personal lawyer is the one doing the work you probably have a point.  Actually, Giuliani is the achilles heels to this whole dumb stunt.  He is what makes something that Trump could have easily not shone personal and political bias but sending Giuliani to handle the business tells a different story.  Then you have Giuliani going on record saying he was doing the President business as his lawyer doesn't help as well.  I guess its easy to just throw that part out because he did not testify but man would I love for him to take the stand on the Senate trial.  

Not sure what makes you think something like this will auto win Trump for 2020.  There is one thing that these polls do not say, does this affect your vote in 2020.  People may support impeachment but not him being removed from office.  I know a few people in my circle believe he did wrong but not enough to be removed from office.  Now as to whether this will decide if they vote for Trump in 2020, well the 2 does not correspond with each other.

There is a long way to go before we even get to that date and outside of just getting impeached he will have to show he is still fit.  I personally cannot wait to see him debate anyone come that time if some of his rallies is any indication of his mental health.

It's not his only job obviously, but it's not outside the scope of his duties. How he went about it though...yeah that's dodgy. Not necessarily illegal, but suspicious.

No its not illegal but it sure makes it very hard to believe this was not for personal intent when you use your own lawyer, someone who cannot testify against you if you asked them to do something illegal or whatever.  When that same person represent your personal agenda, how can you make the case that this was for the US.  Like I said, Giuliani whole involvement is what throws out everything when people try to say Trump was acting on the US behast instead of a personal one. No one can rightfully explain Giuliani role in this whole affair because when they do, it only leads one place, to this being a personal agenda by the president.

No one is stupid.  The whole point of using Giuliani instead of official means is because everything is recorded during official means.  You side step those means so that you prevent those documents and records to become publicly available.  From there, Trump can say whatever he wants knowing that records of his operation are under Giuliani hands.



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JRPGfan said:
Locknuts said:

The difference between a murder case and this is that corruption by US Officials (Biden) is Trump's business. His base believe he was just doing his job. We need someone to testify to his intentions.

The latest data show that Americans have started to reject impeachment:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

If nobody can testify that Trump wanted Biden investigated not because of corruption but because he is a rival, then Trump looks like the victorious underdog in this whole thing and wins 2020.

Thats mentall gymnastics and you know it.
"he believes he was doing his job" 

No he doesnt.... this is a excuse, that apparently people buy into, because they feel it justifies him breaking laws.
Apparently the american people dont care if a president follows laws or not.

You misquoted me. I don't know Trump's intentions, but 'His base believe he was just doing his job'. That's pretty clear.



Machiavellian said:
Locknuts said:

It's not his only job obviously, but it's not outside the scope of his duties. How he went about it though...yeah that's dodgy. Not necessarily illegal, but suspicious.

No its not illegal but it sure makes it very hard to believe this was not for personal intent when you use your own lawyer, someone who cannot testify against you if you asked them to do something illegal or whatever.  When that same person represent your personal agenda, how can you make the case that this was for the US.  Like I said, Giuliani whole involvement is what throws out everything when people try to say Trump was acting on the US behast instead of a personal one. No one can rightfully explain Giuliani role in this whole affair because when they do, it only leads one place, to this being a personal agenda by the president.

No one is stupid.  The whole point of using Giuliani instead of official means is because everything is recorded during official means.  You side step those means so that you prevent those documents and records to become publicly available.  From there, Trump can say whatever he wants knowing that records of his operation are under Giuliani hands.

Yeah it was a huge mistake to get Guliani involved. I think he did it because he trusts Guliani and he doesn't trust most of the staff that have been there before his Presidency. It's not a justification though, it makes it look like he just does whatever he wants. But it also jeopardises his case for the reasons you said. It makes it look like he might try to claim Attorney/Client privilege. If he does claim that, we'll know he's guilty. But that's probably illegal in matters of state anyway and he'd be impeached straight away. Lol.

Last edited by Locknuts - on 22 December 2019

Why are all headlines saying Trump is impeached when he's not impeached at all and most likely never will be?



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vivster said:
Why are all headlines saying Trump is impeached when he's not impeached at all and most likely never will be?

If Pelosi ever gets around to submitting the paperwork to the Senate he will be. The media are just getting ahead of themselves. He won't be removed though because the Senate will reject it.



vivster said:
Why are all headlines saying Trump is impeached when he's not impeached at all and most likely never will be?

Because you don't know what impeachment is.

The house impeaches. The Senate removes.

He has been impeached. He hasn't been removed.



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