Forums - Sony Discussion - What do you want to see for First party support on PS5?

Replicant said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

On top of that, I think it is a mistake for Sony to be so Western focused.  They are basically inviting Nintendo to have free reign over Japan.  Obviously this is not as big of a market as NA or Europe.  However, the Japanese make a crapton of games.  In giving Japan over to Nintendo, they are kind of just giving most of the Japanese studios to Nintendo as well.  After a while these Japanese devs are going to notice that their core customers only play Nintendo, and just keep making games for Nintendo out of habit.  That is a whole lot of 3rd party games to just hand over to your main competition.  I just don't think that is smart business.

You could almost say that Japanese support for Sony consoles will fall off a cliff?

More like a gradual downward slope. 

Generally when people try to exaggerate/change the argument I am making it shows they are afraid I have a valid point.

twintail said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The problem with this argument is that it assumes the future will be just like the present.  You might as well be in 2005 saying "the XBox is no threat to the Playstation because the PS2 gets far more third party games."  Things change.  Third party support is fickle, even for Sony.  Third parties go where the money is.  For most Japanese third party games the money is going to be on the Switch.

Not... really?

i mean if you are going to reduce this to 'things change' then what is the argument being made? Things change all the time, that's life. Just as easily as 3rd party support for Sony could dry up, so could the quality of Nintendo's first party drop to being abysmal. My plans for Friday night could potentially change multiple times before then.

What we can talk about, though, is what the current situation can tell us about trends going forward. Right now, there are various factors as to why Sony won't just randomly lose Japan to Nintendo.

Firstly, this talking point was brought up when Sony dropped the handheld market, and nothing has come of it. It was brought up again when Sony implemented censorship rulings, and again nothing has come of it. 

As of now, PS4 sales are trending above the PS3 (and Sony didn't lose Japanese 3rd party support from that gen to this), while Switch is trending below the 3DS (and well above the WiiU), and they have lost their grip on strong IPs like Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. 

Sony has stronger and more varied infrastructure in Asia, Africa and the Middle East. These are markets that are receptive to gaming software, and particularly in Asia has shown to help offset the drop off of sales in Japan in some cases. Japanese publishers want to make money, and as long as Sony has the widest reach of the 3 console manufacturers, they aren't just going to not support Sony because Sony is not Japan-facing.

As you said they are following the money, and it is ridiculous to think that the money is only with Switch. It clearly is also with Sony if strong sales from bigger publishers like Capcom to smaller entities like Falcom, are to be concerned. 

Lastly, the Japanese audience is hardly concentrated only on Japanese software. 

The growing interest in e-sports and Western software is already evidence that the Japanese audience can expand their tastes beyond Japanese games. This is the current and potentially future climate we are seeing in the region. Nintendo is not currently positioned to bring the latest of Western games to the Japanese market on a large scale. Sony is, and will easily be the de facto place for these sort of games, besides PC, in the foreseeable future.

This is one these posts that shows that you aren't really paying attention.  I now see why you are disagreeing with me.  Here are some things you need to know before we continue this discussion.

1) In Japan PS4 sales are neck-and-neck with PS3 sales.  The PS4 is far more successful worldwide, but can't make a dent in Japan.  Sony is losing Japan.  They've also ceded the handheld market which means they've lost even more influence in Japan.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441188/ps4-vs-ps3-in-japanvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

2) The Switch has been tracking far ahead of the 3DS worldwide.  In Japan Switch is tracking behind the 3DS, but it is rapidly gaining ground.  3DS cut it's price during the first year, which makes it front loaded.  Switch has not yet cut it's price and is gaining ground.  It's going to outsell the 3DS in Japan as well as worldwide.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441000/switch-vs-3dsvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

3) The Japanese audience is, in fact, concentrated on Japanese software.  The only Western title that they really like is Minecraft.  That is the only Western title where it's popularity in Japan is comparable to its popularity in the West.  Maybe you are thinking that Call of Duty topped the charts there for 1 week?  That is not terribly great compared to how CoD does everywhere else.  The latest chart has it at 4th place in it's second week.  Again, very pathetic by CoD standards.  Most likely CoD will not be in the top 10 for annual sales in Japan.  Every other Western title will do worse (except Minecraft).  What the Japanese buy is 95%+ Japanese software.

4) Most importantly, actions have consequences.  Life is not a random unpredictable mess.  Sony can't alienate Japan and be friendly to Japan at the same time.  They cannot have their cake and eat it too.  Perhaps you think ending their handheld line will have no effect?  It will.  Give it time.  They just stopped making the Vita this year.  Wait a couple of years and you will see an effect.

In the 80's Nintendo had very strict policies for 3rd party companies.  They did this both to rebuild the gaming market and also to maintain dominance.  It seemed like a great strategy at the time and it made the NES the most dominant console in history.  However, their actions had consequences.  They gradually lost influence to 3rd parties, first to Sega, and then to Sony to a much greater extent.  And even to this day Nintendo has a reputation of being unfriendly to 3rd party companies.  Their actions had long standing consequences.  

Sony is now trying a similar thing.  They see that there are much greater profits to be had in the West, so they are turning their back on Japan.  This will have long standing consequences.  First they alienate the Japanese customers and consequently they alienate the Japanese devs.  Actions have consequences.  If Sony stops caring about Japan, then Japan will stop caring about Sony.  That includes developers too.



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Something radically different, although I’m not sure what. None of their first party titles really appealed to me this gen and I want that to change



The_Liquid_Laser said:

Sony is now trying a similar thing.  They see that there are much greater profits to be had in the West, so they are turning their back on Japan.  This will have long standing consequences.  First they alienate the Japanese customers and consequently they alienate the Japanese devs.  Actions have consequences.  If Sony stops caring about Japan, then Japan will stop caring about Sony.  That includes developers too.

I mean, you just wrote a whole wall of nothing tbqh. You just repackaged some points I made (about sales) and straight up misrepresented another (about Western games growing in Japan as opposed to your ONLY MINECRAFT SELLS).

At the end of the day, Japanese publishers are seeing sales in and outside of Japan. 

If you can't accept that Japanese publishers are going to follow the profit trail outside of Japan (which they already do) then I don't know what to tell you.  

Do you ignore facts like MH PS4/ X1/ PC (not nintendo device) being the best selling Capcom game of all time? Other publishers still have PS4 exclusives to release and those keep on getting announced. Like, seriously, Japan hasn't been a PS market for like a decade now, and yet publishers from JPN still support the PS consoles because their games sell on the global market, which is far more important than just the Japanese market. 

But hey, we will see. Maybe you are right. I'm waging you aren't. But we will just have to see how things pan out.



Not generic multiplayer crap.



Hunting Season is done...

TLOU2 GOW HZD 2



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

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I know it's a very unpopular opinion, but I'd love them to support PSVR even more with big budget titles, also if they keep the first party output as it is with games like god of war, ratchet and clank, infamous, uncharted, etc, I'd be more than happy



A Colony Wars reboot.

Make the gameplay deeper and more diverse, but keep some of the best stuff of the original, including the branching mission structure, the multiple endings, and the database that detailed all the ships, systems, and planets.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Replicant said:

You could almost say that Japanese support for Sony consoles will fall off a cliff?

More like a gradual downward slope. 

Generally when people try to exaggerate/change the argument I am making it shows they are afraid I have a valid point.

twintail said:

Not... really?

i mean if you are going to reduce this to 'things change' then what is the argument being made? Things change all the time, that's life. Just as easily as 3rd party support for Sony could dry up, so could the quality of Nintendo's first party drop to being abysmal. My plans for Friday night could potentially change multiple times before then.

What we can talk about, though, is what the current situation can tell us about trends going forward. Right now, there are various factors as to why Sony won't just randomly lose Japan to Nintendo.

Firstly, this talking point was brought up when Sony dropped the handheld market, and nothing has come of it. It was brought up again when Sony implemented censorship rulings, and again nothing has come of it. 

As of now, PS4 sales are trending above the PS3 (and Sony didn't lose Japanese 3rd party support from that gen to this), while Switch is trending below the 3DS (and well above the WiiU), and they have lost their grip on strong IPs like Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. 

Sony has stronger and more varied infrastructure in Asia, Africa and the Middle East. These are markets that are receptive to gaming software, and particularly in Asia has shown to help offset the drop off of sales in Japan in some cases. Japanese publishers want to make money, and as long as Sony has the widest reach of the 3 console manufacturers, they aren't just going to not support Sony because Sony is not Japan-facing.

As you said they are following the money, and it is ridiculous to think that the money is only with Switch. It clearly is also with Sony if strong sales from bigger publishers like Capcom to smaller entities like Falcom, are to be concerned. 

Lastly, the Japanese audience is hardly concentrated only on Japanese software. 

The growing interest in e-sports and Western software is already evidence that the Japanese audience can expand their tastes beyond Japanese games. This is the current and potentially future climate we are seeing in the region. Nintendo is not currently positioned to bring the latest of Western games to the Japanese market on a large scale. Sony is, and will easily be the de facto place for these sort of games, besides PC, in the foreseeable future.

This is one these posts that shows that you aren't really paying attention.  I now see why you are disagreeing with me.  Here are some things you need to know before we continue this discussion.

1) In Japan PS4 sales are neck-and-neck with PS3 sales.  The PS4 is far more successful worldwide, but can't make a dent in Japan.  Sony is losing Japan.  They've also ceded the handheld market which means they've lost even more influence in Japan.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441188/ps4-vs-ps3-in-japanvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

2) The Switch has been tracking far ahead of the 3DS worldwide.  In Japan Switch is tracking behind the 3DS, but it is rapidly gaining ground.  3DS cut it's price during the first year, which makes it front loaded.  Switch has not yet cut it's price and is gaining ground.  It's going to outsell the 3DS in Japan as well as worldwide.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441000/switch-vs-3dsvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

3) The Japanese audience is, in fact, concentrated on Japanese software.  The only Western title that they really like is Minecraft.  That is the only Western title where it's popularity in Japan is comparable to its popularity in the West.  Maybe you are thinking that Call of Duty topped the charts there for 1 week?  That is not terribly great compared to how CoD does everywhere else.  The latest chart has it at 4th place in it's second week.  Again, very pathetic by CoD standards.  Most likely CoD will not be in the top 10 for annual sales in Japan.  Every other Western title will do worse (except Minecraft).  What the Japanese buy is 95%+ Japanese software.

4) Most importantly, actions have consequences.  Life is not a random unpredictable mess.  Sony can't alienate Japan and be friendly to Japan at the same time.  They cannot have their cake and eat it too.  Perhaps you think ending their handheld line will have no effect?  It will.  Give it time.  They just stopped making the Vita this year.  Wait a couple of years and you will see an effect.

In the 80's Nintendo had very strict policies for 3rd party companies.  They did this both to rebuild the gaming market and also to maintain dominance.  It seemed like a great strategy at the time and it made the NES the most dominant console in history.  However, their actions had consequences.  They gradually lost influence to 3rd parties, first to Sega, and then to Sony to a much greater extent.  And even to this day Nintendo has a reputation of being unfriendly to 3rd party companies.  Their actions had long standing consequences.  

Sony is now trying a similar thing.  They see that there are much greater profits to be had in the West, so they are turning their back on Japan.  This will have long standing consequences.  First they alienate the Japanese customers and consequently they alienate the Japanese devs.  Actions have consequences.  If Sony stops caring about Japan, then Japan will stop caring about Sony.  That includes developers too.

Sorry, but I'm trying to understand dropping support for Japanese gamers when you had DQ games, MHW, a ton of musao games, the Atelier series, Persona, Final Fantasy World, Earth Defence Force, Yakuza games, Judgement, Nier Automata, Bloodborne to name a few.

They still invest in Japanese developers and have their own Japan studio along with PD. In fact it could be argued that Sony has more variety of first and third party games on their console than Nintendo. 

The only change I see is in censorship, but I think there is a greater argument in Japan trending more towards handheld gaming as supposed to home console gaming and this resulting is a drop off sales for Sony as supposed to not supporting Japanese gamers. 



Whoever said life to be like a box of chocolates clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 

Life is more like a game of bumper cars. At every turn there is a possibility you will get screwed.

I want to see some new platformers,only Nintendo delivers on that one.



Fei-Hung said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

More like a gradual downward slope. 

Generally when people try to exaggerate/change the argument I am making it shows they are afraid I have a valid point.

This is one these posts that shows that you aren't really paying attention.  I now see why you are disagreeing with me.  Here are some things you need to know before we continue this discussion.

1) In Japan PS4 sales are neck-and-neck with PS3 sales.  The PS4 is far more successful worldwide, but can't make a dent in Japan.  Sony is losing Japan.  They've also ceded the handheld market which means they've lost even more influence in Japan.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441188/ps4-vs-ps3-in-japanvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

2) The Switch has been tracking far ahead of the 3DS worldwide.  In Japan Switch is tracking behind the 3DS, but it is rapidly gaining ground.  3DS cut it's price during the first year, which makes it front loaded.  Switch has not yet cut it's price and is gaining ground.  It's going to outsell the 3DS in Japan as well as worldwide.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/441000/switch-vs-3dsvgchartz-gap-chartsseptember-2019/

3) The Japanese audience is, in fact, concentrated on Japanese software.  The only Western title that they really like is Minecraft.  That is the only Western title where it's popularity in Japan is comparable to its popularity in the West.  Maybe you are thinking that Call of Duty topped the charts there for 1 week?  That is not terribly great compared to how CoD does everywhere else.  The latest chart has it at 4th place in it's second week.  Again, very pathetic by CoD standards.  Most likely CoD will not be in the top 10 for annual sales in Japan.  Every other Western title will do worse (except Minecraft).  What the Japanese buy is 95%+ Japanese software.

4) Most importantly, actions have consequences.  Life is not a random unpredictable mess.  Sony can't alienate Japan and be friendly to Japan at the same time.  They cannot have their cake and eat it too.  Perhaps you think ending their handheld line will have no effect?  It will.  Give it time.  They just stopped making the Vita this year.  Wait a couple of years and you will see an effect.

In the 80's Nintendo had very strict policies for 3rd party companies.  They did this both to rebuild the gaming market and also to maintain dominance.  It seemed like a great strategy at the time and it made the NES the most dominant console in history.  However, their actions had consequences.  They gradually lost influence to 3rd parties, first to Sega, and then to Sony to a much greater extent.  And even to this day Nintendo has a reputation of being unfriendly to 3rd party companies.  Their actions had long standing consequences.  

Sony is now trying a similar thing.  They see that there are much greater profits to be had in the West, so they are turning their back on Japan.  This will have long standing consequences.  First they alienate the Japanese customers and consequently they alienate the Japanese devs.  Actions have consequences.  If Sony stops caring about Japan, then Japan will stop caring about Sony.  That includes developers too.

Sorry, but I'm trying to understand dropping support for Japanese gamers when you had DQ games, MHW, a ton of musao games, the Atelier series, Persona, Final Fantasy World, Earth Defence Force, Yakuza games, Judgement, Nier Automata, Bloodborne to name a few.

They still invest in Japanese developers and have their own Japan studio along with PD. In fact it could be argued that Sony has more variety of first and third party games on their console than Nintendo. 

The only change I see is in censorship, but I think there is a greater argument in Japan trending more towards handheld gaming as supposed to home console gaming and this resulting is a drop off sales for Sony as supposed to not supporting Japanese gamers. 

This post is somewhat out of context (and I made it about a month ago).  Let me refer you to my original post which is really about Sony first party software.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

In the past the first party stuff that I have really liked from Sony has come from their Japanese studios: Ico, Shadow of Colossus, Legend of Dragoon, Okage, Patapon, etc....  I would like to see more from the Japanese side of Sony.  These are the types of games that I like.  

On top of that, I think it is a mistake for Sony to be so Western focused.  They are basically inviting Nintendo to have free reign over Japan.  Obviously this is not as big of a market as NA or Europe.  However, the Japanese make a crapton of games.  In giving Japan over to Nintendo, they are kind of just giving most of the Japanese studios to Nintendo as well.  After a while these Japanese devs are going to notice that their core customers only play Nintendo, and just keep making games for Nintendo out of habit.  That is a whole lot of 3rd party games to just hand over to your main competition.  I just don't think that is smart business.

So, anyway, I would like to see more Japanese style first party games from Sony.  Those are the games I like and it would be smart business for them too.