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Forums - Movies & TV - The James Bond Rewatch: Current Movie - SPECTRE

 

Which is the best movie of the Craig era (so far)?

Casino Royal 13 76.47%
 
Quantum of Solace 0 0%
 
Skyfall 4 23.53%
 
Spectre 0 0%
 
Total:17

I just saw License to Kill.

I'm surprised they decided to go this route. Deciding to abandon the spy stuff for a police theme is probably one choice that sounded good in paper, but it just ends up not working well enough. Plus, they have so many clichès from your typical cop flicks, they even had the scene where Bond had to give up his badge in a way! The whole movie I'm thinking that, while Bond is chasing this druglord, some maniac elsewhere is trading with nukes or making a space station that somehow nobody noticed. Chasing a cartel is too small a task for a figure like Bond. I mean, it's nice to see Bond taking revenge for the people he cares about, but still, it's just not the right plot for him. Plot aside, the movie is pretty competent. Dalton makes an excellent Bond, and it's a shame he only ever made two movies with the character. The whole "I work alone" shtick got old quite fast, though. Seriously, he could have taken the bad guy quite early if he hadn't been so stubborn. The villain is quite threatening, but it's not particularly memorable. His executions are, though, death by depressurization is terrifying, if not somewhat outlandish. The chase scene at the end is quite good, but I was constantly thinking that, with all of those bullets going around at all times, the tankers should have exploded way earlier.

Overall, it's middle of the road. A 7/10. I would have said it's a 6, but Dalton's performance and the last bigh action scene at the end push it to a 7.



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I just saw Goldeneye. Let's see if I can close the gap this week.

As the first movie from the next period on this franchise, it does feel like a breath of fresh air. Apparently they took six years between License to Kill and Goldeneye, and it looks like it is worth it. As the first movie that deals with the new world order after the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, the producers wanted to make Bond feel more modern, and they certainly accomplish it. Pierce Brosnan does the part of a very balanced Bond, a good middle ground between all of his predecesors, even if he doesn't really reach any of their high points. The plot is quite interesting, even if it suffers from a big case of the hacking and computer fever of the 90s (that Boris character is quite annoying). The villain is also quite entertaining, in an "evil Bond" sort of way, and their rivalry throughout the movie leads to great scenes. Travellian's ultimate plan, however, is... odd. I don't know how to describe it, but... if he steals a ton of money, and then he causes a massive, worldwide panic, wouldn't that kind of money be worthless? To be fair, he wants revenge first and foremost, so the plan not making much sense is forgiveable, he just wants to see everything burn. But really, how did Travellian survive a bullet to the head at the beginning? The main henchwoman is also quite threatening, even if it's just because of how insane she is. The writting in general is also excellent, the movie flows very well, going from great scene to great scene. The discovery of who Janus is is also quite clever, located in that junkyard, where the ghosts of the past lay.

Overall, a great way to restart the series. A solid 8/10.



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Forgot to add my current rankings now I've hit 20 films

  1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Lazenby)
  2. From Russia With Love (Connery)
  3. The Spy Who Loved Me (Moore)
  4. Goldfinger (Connery)
  5. Goldeneye (Brosnan)
  6. Licence To Kill (Dalton)
  7. Thunderball (Connery)
  8. For Your Eyes Only (Moore)
  9. The Living Day Lights (Dalton)
  10. Tomorrow Never Dies (Brosnan)
  11. Dr. No (Connery)
  12. You Only Live Twice (Connery)
  13. Live And Let Die (Moore)
  14. Licence To Kill (Moore)
  15. Moonraker (Moore)
  16. The World Is Not Enough (Brosnan)
  17. The Man With The Golden Gun (Moore)
  18. Diamonds Are For Ever (Connery)
  19. Octopussy (Moore)
  20. Die Another Day (Brosnan)


As we enter the Craig era, some statistics:

Highest rated Bond movies:

1) From Russia With Love (8.7)
2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service (8.4)
3) The Spy Who Loved Me (7.8)
4) GoldenEye (7.7)
5) Goldfinger (7.2)

Lowest rated Bond movies:

1) Die Another Day (2.5)
t-2) Octopussy (4.4)
t-2) Diamonds Are Forever (4.4)
t-4) The World is Not Enough( 5.0)
t-4)The Man With the Golden Gun (5.0)

Scores updated to this point!



noir_solitude said:

Forgot to add my current rankings now I've hit 20 films

  1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Lazenby)
  2. From Russia With Love (Connery)
  3. The Spy Who Loved Me (Moore)
  4. Goldfinger (Connery)
  5. Goldeneye (Brosnan)
  6. Licence To Kill (Dalton)
  7. Thunderball (Connery)
  8. For Your Eyes Only (Moore)
  9. The Living Day Lights (Dalton)
  10. Tomorrow Never Dies (Brosnan)
  11. Dr. No (Connery)
  12. You Only Live Twice (Connery)
  13. Live And Let Die (Moore)
  14. Licence To Kill (Moore)
  15. Moonraker (Moore)
  16. The World Is Not Enough (Brosnan)
  17. The Man With The Golden Gun (Moore)
  18. Diamonds Are For Ever (Connery)
  19. Octopussy (Moore)
  20. Die Another Day (Brosnan)

I think 14 was intended to be A View to a Kill.



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Sigh. Die Another Day, what were they thinking? Coming on the fortieth anniversary of the film franchise and the fiftieth anniversary of the James Bond character, DAD was supposed to be a celebration of what came before and a catapult into an even brighter future. Instead we got a hot mess of a film that shows the producers have no idea about what works with this series and the franchise quickly deciding to abandon all that came before in the next installment. Congratulations on a job . . . done?

At the very least you could say DAD is entertaining on a train-wreck rubber necking level where you just cannot look away. That at least gives it a step up from its predecessor, The World is Not Enough. It’s hard to find anything redeeming especially since anything that does make you smile is quickly buried under a bunch of bad jokes and horrible CGI. Remember in the 80s when we had all that great physical stunt work? Well, screw that! We can just put Pierce Brosnan in front of a green screen with the best VFX money can buy . . . for a Canadian television series.

Just stop. Stop this nonsense. Why is Bond surfing into North Korea? How would Bond know who was working with the general’s son if that person is a mole in MI6? If he broke and was the one leaking such great classified material, why would NK trade him for some random terrorist? How can he stop his own heart? How do you destroy someone’s bone marrow to rewrite their DNA? Wouldn’t that kill them? Why is there a “Your mama” in a Bond film? Does Halle Berry even know what film she’s in? What is Graves even wearing in the finale? Ahhhh!

Ok, I will admit to having a bit more fun with this review because it’s just entirely impossible to take this film seriously. What should be a celebration of a franchise is more a reminder of better days gone by and merely the superficial sheen of a Bond film without anything resembling the substance that made the superior films truly great. Should we do a retread of On Her Majesty’s Secret Service or From Russia with Love? Pfft. Why pick those when we can re-do (checks notes for worst Bond film) Diamonds are Forever?

The beginning has some actual promise. Taking a larger than life character like Bond and bringing him down by having him captured and tortured is a bold choice. It reminded me of Superman II when Clark Kent is temporarily without his powers and involved in a brutal fight. It was hard to watch to see someone so untouchable brought so low and it makes his return to superhero status so much more powerful. Here, they do NOTHING with it. The uncomfortable scenes of torture are used as music video material for the truly horrible theme song. And once Bond gets a shave and a haircut? He’s perfectly fine. No lasting effects to fourteen months of torture. The transition of Bond from a human character capable of extraordinary feats to an unrealistic action hero who never suffers consequences is complete.

As others have said, the film is strongest in the middle when Bond returns to London. The sword fight at Blades has always been a favorite sequence of mine. It does get a little over the top and there is some digital trickery is speeding up the movements but it’s a well choreographed sequence without seeming too manufactured. And it’s nice to have a good number of medium shots with Brosnan clearly doing the swordplay instead of an obvious stunt double. The Easter eggs in Q’s workshop are also a delight as is John Cleese who (when not being forced to be the butt of the jokes) shows he can be just as good a foil to 007 as the dearly departed Desmond Llewelyn. It’s a shame Cleese was not given more time to develop his version of Q before the reboot but at least he goes out on a high note.

I’m going to give Die Another Day 3/10. I was thinking a 4 for awhile but it’s clearly a whole level under the second worst I had to push it down more. It’s disappointing that this is Brosnan’s swan song as he deserved so much better. Some of the location work is gorgeous such as Spain substituting for Cuba. The less said about Samantha Bond’s Moneypenny’s exit from the series, the better. She was so strong in her debut in GoldenEye and is reduced to banging a virtual reality Bond. Luckily Dame Judi Dench will stick around for the Craig films as she continues to be a highlight of the modern era even if she’s written a little inconsistently here and there. The true tragedy of DAD however is that it was so bad that the next film was decided to be a reboot thereby ejecting so much from the franchise that was great and for that, this film certainly should carry great disdain.

Current Rankings:
1) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
2) From Russia with Love
3) Goldfinger
4) For Your Eyes Only
5) The Living Daylights
6) The Spy Who Loved Me
7) GoldenEye
8) Thunderball
9) Dr. No
10) Licence to Kill
11) Octopussy
12) Live and Let Die
13) Tomorrow Never Dies
14) You Only Live Twice
15) The World is Not Enough
16) The Man with the Golden Gun
17) A View to a Kill
18) Moonraker
19) Diamonds are Forever
20) Die Another Day



Saw the headline, came here to say Casino Royal is by far the best Bond movie, that is all. Proceed.



I just saw Tomorrow Never Dies. Or how the writers originally envisioned it: Mass Media is EVIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!

But really, out of all of the Bond movies I've seen, this seems quite unfocused. I get the feeling they were trying to go for something more serious, but things just went south. Brosnan is OK, Michelle Yeoh as this movie's Bond girl is fine, the intro is fine, the score is fine, the set design and the fighting scenes are quite good actually (that helicopter stunt is ridiculous, but damn if it's not effective, and the "Bond drives using his phone" is also hilarious)... It all seems quite decent if somewhat mediocre, with the exception of one big thing: the villain. Oh, the villain of this movie. What were they thinking? What were they going for? This is without a doubt the worst villain yet, at least the worst when dealing with campy villains. Elliot Carver is a mass media mogul that somehow has enough power to cause World War III, fine, but his ways to go about it are incredibly obvious and in the face. The very first scene we see him is gleefully orchestrating chaos and mayhem all throughout the world, and when he announces the "discovery" of the Anglo-Chinese crisis with a cracking tone that almost souns like moaning. That's the first scene. This is the kind of stuff that I'd expect on a Bond parody, like Austin Powers or something similar, not an actual 007 movie! But it gets worse. Everytime we see his organization's logo, it's accompannied by a massive portrait of him, sometimes multiple copies of them. Even while inside of his office and there's no need for any kind of cult of the individual advertisement. Have we mentioned he's a narcissist yet? No? Then let us remind you of that through the entire flick? Seriously, the guy has his face printed on the side of a massive skyscraper! It almost takes half of that side, what happened to the people working there, aren't they allowed to use windows? His schemes are also horribly put together. If he knows so much about information, then he must know that by publishing the conflict before anyone could've really heard of it would put a target on his head immediately. He would at the very least get officials from both countries knocking at his organization trying to know how did he know that, why was his organization there, and what else does he know. But no, instead he apparently goes unnoposed, and he gives a speech during the satelites' big presentation in which he sounds completely deranged and thristy for power. How does anyone trust this guy? Especially when he was just joking about ruining someone out of spite to his guests (also, can we just stop to wonder why Bond decides to go to Carver directly to tease him about what he knows? You're a secret agent, you know, you need to be more subtle than that). He orders his wife's murder when he suspects she's been working with Bond, instead of just, you know, questioning her (if you're so much focused on the idea that information is power, why don't you extract the info out of her, if you're evil enough to order her assassination, you shouldn't really have any problem with questioning under torture. Hell, the guy has a two torturers under his payroll!). From here, your typical Bond villain clichés start happening one after another: the villain brings the heroes to his lair, he has an evil, gloating monologue, a "you're insane - no I'm a genious"... the whole thing. He also decides to go in his evil cloaked an armed to the teeth ship, and instead of ordering stuff from his headquarters, he goes into the thing, despite it obviously being at risk of actual naval battle. This is where he reveals his reasoning for orchestrating the whole thing: on top of getting the news of the event, he would get exclusive broadcasting rights in China for a century. Ok... how do you know that? I mean, yeah, you have a puppet in the Chinese government, but, you know China is a very strong dictatorship, yes? Even by then, they kept quite a stern control of the information going around, what makes you think that your puppet won't turn against you once he gets all the resources available to China? What's stopping him from just sending a couple of special agents to kill you once he's the Chairman? Carver struggled against a couple of special agents, imagine if the chinese sent a dozen or so against him. Once we get the hostage showdown, he kills his henchmen to prove how evil and how above Bond he is. But... why not kill Yeoh's character? No, really, Bond villain stupidity aside, why not? You kill one of the enemy agents and you make Bond mad. And in the ultimate showdown between Bond and Carver (by the way, how the hell did Carver sneak upon Bond?) he commits the ultimate Bond cliché and monologues instead of shooting him. While this is a common thing, the difference between him and other Bond villains is that most others are either capable of going mano a mano against him, or they have a great deal of distance to avoid tricks and outmanouvers as much as possible. Carver is just RIGHT THERE, and he gets immediately overpowered and killed by Bond. What did you expect, moron? What was your plan? How the hell did you think it was going to work? If we assume that he acts like that because he's crazy, then we must also assume he acts like this all the time, and in that case, how did he amass so much power without being backstabbed and taken over by more competent people? What the hell were the writing team thinking?

Overall, a mediocre Bond movie, but the villain and everything around him derails the movie for me. A sad 4/10.

Also, I find amusing that noone mentions the internet in all of this. Guess that, for a mass media mogul, he's very short sighted.



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I just saw The World is Not Enough.

This is an interesting turn for the series. This is the first time the MI6 is actually targeted successfully, and by combining it with the threat on M's life and the protection of a former ally's daughter, it ends up being quite a personal story. The plot is moved along by the relations everyone has with each other: Bond's relation with Electra, M's relation with Electra and her father, Electra's relation with Renard, M and her father, Renard's relation with Bond and the MI6 in general... It is a rather interesting challenge for the writting team, and while it's not a perfect result, it's pretty good and entertaining. Most actors manage to play quite well their part, taking into advantage of this script. In particular I found the relation between Elektra and Renard fascinating, you don't really know whether one has seduced the other, both have fallen for each other, or if they are just playing a rol, but in the end you feel there's a very twisted romance going on. Robbie Coltrane steals the show as the retired KGB agent helping Bond, from his antics at the casino to his rescue of Bond at the last third of the movie, and it's a legitimate sad moment when he dies. The villain's plan is also great, and it also helps that there's a lot of human factor to the villain's motivation, making the more unrealistic plotp points easy to believe. Speaking of which, Elektra as the villaines was a great choice, although it would have worked better if the Christmas character wasn't there. The moment I saw Bond was getting a second Bond girl I knew Elektra was going to turn against him. Denisse Richards doesn't really add that much to the plot, other than convenient nuclear expertise and a motivation for Bond to continue fighting after the reveal. The action is surprisingly subpar, with only the submarine mono a mono between Renard and Bond staying in my memory, which is weird, Bond movies usually shine in this department.

Overall, this is the second best movie from Brosnan thus far. A good 7/10. I feel it had the potential of being much more, but what we got is still good.

Also, next one will be Die Another Day. Oh, boy.



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I just saw Die Another Day. What can I say about this movie? This is peak silly for the James Bond series. The sheer amount of over the top action, setpieces, dialogue and plot points combined makes this probably the most childish, overdone and bombastic movie in all of the series.

And I freaking love it.

This was my favourite Bond movie when it came out, and still holds up to that title. Seriously, there is not a single moment in the film I'm not having fun, either by the sheer over the top of everyone or by its many legitimately good elements in this. But first, let us start with the beginning. Bond movies have two opposite extremes, the camp and the serious, the ying and the yang. They need each other to be a Bond movie, but directors always have to combine them to make the films. And yet, I am of the opinion that Bond movies are much stronger when they side to camp more than serious. And if the fact that the movie starts with Bond surfing in North Korea while wearing a spy suit doesn't immediately tell you what this movie is going for, you really should consider the series you're watching. And not only that, but we then have a hovercraft chase scene in North Korea (which were there to go over the landmines, when that's not how landmines work) and get a fake death that was so obviously a fakeout the first time I watched it I thought it was going to be a "this was planned all along" moment, but apparently not. Then we have a torture scene mixed with a techno music video, because it sounded modern at the time. Then Bond is traded after more than a year of torture, and put into lockdown until propper supervision because they suspect treason. Of course he immediately escapes, and swims to Hong Kong. Yep, for some reason they decided to keep Bond in a boat near Hong Kong instead of immediately moving him anywhere else. And he just goes to an hotel to ask for a room. A luxury hotel, all while Bond looks like an escaped patient at a hospital. And people don't seem to react! Well, that's not true, we hear someone say "no tie? Such poor standards". How can't you laugh at this? We later see Bond getting help from a chinese agent to go to Cuba, where he follows the clues to the one north korean agent he was traded for, and find a secret DNA replacement clinic. Yes, you read that right, a DNA replacement clinic. A child must have written this. You'd think this crime against science would actually be the bigger concern. Yeah, someone somewhere has developed a technology to replace the DNA of someone for anyone else in the world, this could be the ultimate spy tool, this could cause chaos if it fell in the wrong hands, this could change medical science and biology in general as we know it... But nah, let's just ignore all of this, we have more important shit to do. In Cuba we also meet Halle Berry's character, which also infiltrates the clinic. Bond then finds Zao there, but he escapes, and the clinic is destroyed in the process because chase scene. Bond then finds some diamonds that point out to the villain of the movie, Gustav Graves. Bond goes to confront him in a brittish castle, where he's practising fencing, and the two of them end up having a fight. And, no joke, this fight is the best action duel in the series, period. No special effect, no contrived situations, no fancy weaponry, it's just two men swordfighting. And it gets very brutal, Graves becomes unhinged and just lashes out against Bond. They keep hurting each other, they break their swords, they go for other swords, they jump and dodge each others, they brawl... The choreography is excellent, the buildup to the fight is superb, and the fact they are surrounded by a lot of people who have absolutely no idea what is happening while this two men are wrecking the place adds to their reactions to the mix. Sometimes the simplest things are the most effective, and this fight is proof of that. After that bit of awesome, Graves invites Bond to his ice palace, because of course he has an ice palace. It is from this point on that thre big things happen: first, Bond reconciles with M and begins working for the NI6 again, we realise that Graves' secretary is actually an undercover NI6 agent (and, by default the traitor, since we already know the Bond girl of the week is Hale Berry) and we finally get the invisible car! They pulled no punches when it comes to silly sci-fi spy tech, and the invisible car is probably the most overpowered tool Bond ever gets. It's a shame there were no more Brosnan movies after this, since how do you top this? Oh, I know, Virtual Reality! We have a completely pointless action scene revolving around a VR pair of glasses, and it never goes anywhere! This is a completely pointless tech show that's there only for an action scene, and it's a sad bump in the otherwise excellent pacing this movie has. Anyways, we get to the ice palace, and everything suddenly looks like it's made of plastic, glorious. And even then, there are candles, people are smoking, dozens of people are there in regular suits... Anyway, we find Berry's character again, and after a painful innuendo exchange, we are presented to the main mcguffin of the film: Icarus. Someone must've taken notes from Diamonds Are Forever, since this is practically the exact same thing: A laser satellite powered up by diamonds used to destroy enemy assets from orbit. Only this one is more akin to a weapon of mass destruction. It kinda sounds less impressive than the DNA reconstruction clinic, but regardless. Later we see Bond and Jinx infiltrating the lair of the villain, which is a full-on terrarium, and then they have to fight a henchmen using lasers (the amount of nods to previous Bond movies is great). After that, we have the necessary scene next day, the MI6 agent betrays Bond, Gustave reveals himself as... the villain! *gasp*, but then he escapes. The chase scene that follows is excellent, and goes over the top in all the right ways. Bond steals Gustave's super fast vehicle, he then uses Icarus to unleash a fuckhuge laser against Bond, which he manages to just in time avoid it by throwing himself from an iceberg. The iceberg then breaks and Bond needs to SURF FOR HIS LIFE! Yeah, that's the power of foreshadowing, baby! The magic of cinema does it again! Also, that horrible greenscreen. Bond then goes back to the ice palace to rescue Jinx, but he's discovered and ANOTHER CHASE STARTS, NOT EVEN FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE LAST ONE! And not just that, but a car vs car fight, because Zao's car is pretty much identical to Bond's for some reason. So we have not only a chase scene racing against time, but we also have a car-o a car-o, with each one countering the other's moves! After Bond manages to beat Zao by tricking him into falling into a water pool from the melting palace (yes, the palace is melting after getting shot by Icarus, instead of getting instantly evaporated) and shooting a candelabra at him, Bond rescues Jynx from almost drowning. I do now realize a bit of a foreshadowing from Goldeneye, when Trevellian complains to him that Bond never can save the women he loves. Considering he loses Paris in Tomorrow Never Dies and has to kill Elektra in The World is Not Enough, it's nice to see a bit of an arc from Bond, becoming more emotional and vulnerable in this particular regard. After she's saved, they link up with HQ, and they are sent to stop Gustave once and for all. Gustave's plan is to destroy the minefield dividing North from South Korea, so he can... wait, what can he do? I mean, he can destroy the border and the US and SK bases, but that's kind of it. They only have one superweapon, but that wouldn't be enough to win the war, or even make threats. And even if noone can shoot down Icarus, wouldn't there be a way to hack it? Or to shoot down the plane where Gustave is and neutralize it? I mean, that's what ends up happening anyway. What was his plan? No wonder his father turns on him, that plan is suicidal. Anyways, Bond and Jynx end up in the plane with Gustave, who is wearing the power glove now, and they eventually start fighting. Meanwhile, Jynx takes control of the plane, but she's discovered by the MI6 traitor and... WAIT A MINUTE!! WHAT ARE YOU WEARING?? You're in a military flight, lady! There is no reason for her to be dress like that, other than fanservice, and thus we get the catfight. It is a pretty good fight scene all things consider, but the dialogue is awful! Seriously, in general the character of Jynx is the worst written Bond girl since the Connery days. You have to laugh just at the sheer stupidity of it (but seriously, a Bond movie should never have a "yo mama" joke). Anyways, Bond and Gustave fight and it looks like Gustave is going to win, but Bond manages to turn the tides of the fight by activating his parachute. Also, probably the worst Bond one liner in the series, what does it have to do with what they are doing? Anyways, Gustave is killed by motor engine (again, a sad lost opportunity, hew should have been killed by Icarus), Bond and Jynx manage to get out of the plane in time, and the movie ends. What a ride.

If I had to point out a complain about this, it would be the very 2000s editing, that much slow-down and speed-up with the footage gets annoying fast. But overall, why even complain? This movie is a masterpiece.

10/10, they just don't make movies like this anymore.



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