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Forums - Politics Discussion - House minority leader trying to blame video games for mass shootings. Update: Walmart pulls violent video game ads for 2 weeks

irstupid said:
pokoko said:

This is what you said, "I was to move from here to the USA my chances of dying to a gun increase nearly 15x, sorry if that fact based on numbers upsets you living in the states, but you are 15 times more likely than me to die to a gun."  I'm posting it again so you can't pretend you didn't say it.  

So I get this straight, you think if you move to New Hampshire, at state with a homicide rate of 1 per 100,000 people, that it would be the same as moving to Louisiana, a state with a 12.4 homicide rate?  I mean, you look at those two states and you cannot see the difference?  

No, I'm not 15 times more likely to die to a gun than you.  First, I don't live anywhere near a poor metropolitan area, which is where most gun violence occurs.  Second, most gun deaths in the United States are suicides, which doesn't apply to me.  Pretending that simply moving to the US means you'll have the same risks of getting shot no matter where you go or what circumstances you place yourself in is just silly.  People who use statistics while willfully ignoring context are usually just trying to pound home an agenda.

And, yeah, I was wrong about the size comparison, I thought the US was larger with the addition of Alaska.  You want to be an asshole about it with more "takes how long to open Google" comments then feel free.  

I always hate people from other countries telling us how dangerous it is to live in the US.

This isn't like I need to stay away from a dangerous neighborhood. For most Americans, it's you need to not drive 5 hours straight to get to just the city, then go out of your way to find the dangerous part that you would have zero reason to go to as everything you would want in the city would be available somewhere else. 

That is where 99% of all gun related deaths, not counting suicides happen. Like .001% of the entire US is a no go zone. One would have to make it their goal to be in those areas, to ever be in those areas. And it's not like you are surprised. You would happily take your baby out on a walk in the stroller in the rest of the 99.999% of the US, and know damn well that you don't even want to drive your car as fast as you can through those .001% areas. 

You're starting to toss out a lot of numbers without any links. Anything to back that up?

Studies I've found don't seem to indicate this massive divide where almost all gun homicides are in urban areas. In a study of Washington state gun deaths in 2000 they found that the rate of gun deaths were greater by about 50% in rural areas (15 vs 10 per 100000) but that the urban areas had about 50% more deaths caused by homicide than the rural areas (18% vs 28%) so the rate of gun homicides were roughly equal.

https://www.jabfm.org/content/jabfp/14/2/107.full.pdf

Another study I found in California found that while there was a difference in gun homicide rates in the years up to 2015 that the rates in urban areas had declined such that the two were equal. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1047279718300425?via%3Dihub

If you have any larger studies of the US I would be interested to hear about them. 

Last edited by Torillian - on 06 August 2019

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irstupid said:
pokoko said:

This is what you said, "I was to move from here to the USA my chances of dying to a gun increase nearly 15x, sorry if that fact based on numbers upsets you living in the states, but you are 15 times more likely than me to die to a gun."  I'm posting it again so you can't pretend you didn't say it.  

So I get this straight, you think if you move to New Hampshire, at state with a homicide rate of 1 per 100,000 people, that it would be the same as moving to Louisiana, a state with a 12.4 homicide rate?  I mean, you look at those two states and you cannot see the difference?  

No, I'm not 15 times more likely to die to a gun than you.  First, I don't live anywhere near a poor metropolitan area, which is where most gun violence occurs.  Second, most gun deaths in the United States are suicides, which doesn't apply to me.  Pretending that simply moving to the US means you'll have the same risks of getting shot no matter where you go or what circumstances you place yourself in is just silly.  People who use statistics while willfully ignoring context are usually just trying to pound home an agenda.

And, yeah, I was wrong about the size comparison, I thought the US was larger with the addition of Alaska.  You want to be an asshole about it with more "takes how long to open Google" comments then feel free.  

I always hate people from other countries telling us how dangerous it is to live in the US.

This isn't like I need to stay away from a dangerous neighborhood. For most Americans, it's you need to not drive 5 hours straight to get to just the city, then go out of your way to find the dangerous part that you would have zero reason to go to as everything you would want in the city would be available somewhere else. 

That is where 99% of all gun related deaths, not counting suicides happen. Like .001% of the entire US is a no go zone. One would have to make it their goal to be in those areas, to ever be in those areas. And it's not like you are surprised. You would happily take your baby out on a walk in the stroller in the rest of the 99.999% of the US, and know damn well that you don't even want to drive your car as fast as you can through those .001% areas. 

Was the Walmart in El Paso in a terrible part of town? Was the Pulse nightclub in Orlando in a bad neighborhood? Or the concert area in Vegas? Is Sandy Hook a crime infested city? What about the church in Charleston?



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I think it's high time to stop letting republicans spout their nonsense and tell the US branches of government to take logical steps to stop gun violence. Pay no attention to shills of the gun industry, the NRA and the military industrial complex. Treat their talking points like the jokes they are. Laugh at their faces when they blame video games. Stop and shut them up before they start. Their bought out opinions matter less than that of cockroaches. The rest of the world needs to be aggressive in how we deal with this stupidity and unnecessary death.



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JRPGfan said:
o_O.Q said:

what about the provisions in the constitution that speak of the need for militias to guard against government tyranny?

should that section of the constitution be ignored?

its in the law of the land that the citizens of the country should have the capacity to defend themselves from government encroachment

Its no longer possible for civilians to guard against goverment tyranny anyways.... so yes?

Owning a gun or rifle wont change that, and meanwhile these guns are the cause of so much trouble...
its not a good argument anymore, towards owning a gun ect.

then that means we should be disarming the government

but regardless, you are suggesting that the constitution should be ignored?

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 06 August 2019

Nice to see Reggie Fils-Aime step up to the plate and address the incredibly tired rhetoric again espoused by the dumb-dumbs yesterday.

https://www.gamerevolution.com/game-culture/576971-reggie-fils-aime-donald-trump-video-game-violence

Seth Meyers even took a bit of time to counter this nonsense last night.

I hope more people call out these ignoramuses on their bullshit. It's be nice to see in a live interview, but I'm sure the chances of that happening are fairly low.



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COKTOE said:

Nice to see Reggie Fils-Aime step up to the plate and address the incredibly tired rhetoric again espoused by the dumb-dumbs yesterday.

https://www.gamerevolution.com/game-culture/576971-reggie-fils-aime-donald-trump-video-game-violence

Seth Meyers even took a bit of time to counter this nonsense last night.

I hope more people call out these ignoramuses on their bullshit. It's be nice to see in a live interview, but I'm sure the chances of that happening are fairly low.

I am so proud of Reggie, the man is who we need to stop the bullshit. More people should speak up now. I am pretty sure many celebs will raise their voice as well.



Ganoncrotch said:
pokoko said:

You're telling me, honestly and seriously, that you do not understand that the United States, an area larger than all of Europe, contains environments that are vastly different from one another?  That there are States and cities where violence is much, much more commonplace than others?

So you're telling me, honestly and seriously, that you do not understand that if an average of 12 deaths per 100k is spread over all the states that sounds terrible, but if you are telling me that it is so vast and there are regions where there are 0 deaths per 100k, that must mean that there is another region where the deaths are 24 per 100k, which is the worst, in the world in terms of gun violence by a long shot.

Even the US state with the lowest firearm-related death rate (3.4 per 100k people) is still very high compared to other civilized/wealthy countries. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

These are the countries with a lower firearm-related death rate than 3.4.... many of them waaaaaaaaay lower:

And the US state with the second lowest firearm-related death rate is already over 4 per 100k people. Only six US staes are below 7.6 per 100k people.



o_O.Q said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

First they already are despotic, (more or less depending on the country) and so far no civilian gun has stopped any of those anti-freedom endeavors. So this is a bad excuse to satisfy a primitive need to feel powerful by acquiring a weapon.

Second, like the other guy said, if the gov wants your hide, it can easily get it and no civilian weapons could stop it. Ask Hiroshima or Nagasaki Japanese civilians back in 1945 how their home weapons stopped the US from dropping nukes.

Third, there is an inherent contradiction between living in a peaceful nation and wishing to acquire weapons. That fundamentally makes no sense. Anymore than wanting to go to work in an office and dressing like you're going to the swimming pool. Or putting a costume to go to the swimming pool. In my country I want social rights, access to housing, quality hospitals, environmental policies, equality etc... In other words, I want the stuff that matters in peaceful times. Weapons are for war times. So again unless you believe you are at war, there is no good reason to wish to acquire actual weapons.

And finally if all these reasons don't get you thinking about how out of place weapons are in a peaceful society, think of all those mass shootings proving beyond any doubt that owning weapons is not only wrong, it's plain MAD!

so your answer is yes

"there is an inherent contradiction between living in a peaceful nation"

no such thing has ever existed or will ever exist, what do you think prison is for?

Do you really want to talk about prisons?

Another topic where the USA doesn't look too good, both by incarceration rate and by the treatment of the prisoners compared to other civilized/wealthy countries. The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.


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irstupid said:

For most Americans, it's you need to not drive 5 hours straight to get to just the city, then go out of your way to find the dangerous part that you would have zero reason to go to as everything you would want in the city would be available somewhere else. 

Most Americans don't have to drive 5 hours to the next city... 82% of them already live in a city / urbanized area with a high population density:

http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/us-cities-factsheet

The trend of moving to the cities has been going on for decades... the cities are drawing the population. Approximately 82% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas, up from 64% in 1950. By 2050, 90% of the U.S. population is projected to live in urban areas.

irstupid said:

That is where 99% of all gun related deaths, not counting suicides happen. Like .001% of the entire US is a no go zone. One would have to make it their goal to be in those areas, to ever be in those areas.

[citation needed]



Conina said:
irstupid said:

For most Americans, it's you need to not drive 5 hours straight to get to just the city, then go out of your way to find the dangerous part that you would have zero reason to go to as everything you would want in the city would be available somewhere else. 

Most Americans don't have to drive 5 hours to the next city... 82% of them already live in a city / urbanized area with a high population density:

http://css.umich.edu/factsheets/us-cities-factsheet

The trend of moving to the cities has been going on for decades... the cities are drawing the population. Approximately 82% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas, up from 64% in 1950. By 2050, 90% of the U.S. population is projected to live in urban areas.

irstupid said:

That is where 99% of all gun related deaths, not counting suicides happen. Like .001% of the entire US is a no go zone. One would have to make it their goal to be in those areas, to ever be in those areas.

[citation needed]

Just wanted to say thank you for your breakdown of the states gun death rate earlier in the thread, I was at work and couldn't post at all on my phone for some reason, think... a phone post wouldn't have done justice what I wanted to put down anyway.

You know that Citation needed part at the end, I was going to call it out on my phone as well but like I said was limited... imagine if what he typed there was true, so that 99% of the gun related deaths happened in a region which was just .001% of the entire US, so.... in that Utopia you have effectively 0 gun deaths per 100k in 99.999% of the country... and in that .001% of the land you have to take on the burden of what would be 12 deaths per 100k... meaning you would need to bring that up by around 99000 times so that the average death rate would reach the 12 per 100k over the whole of the USA, that would mean... in that one horror patch of land in this fantasy which covers .001% of the land of the USA, you would need a death rate of 1,188,000 people per 100,000 to die to guns, so each person would need to be killed nearly 12 times by guns in this one bad part of town for the math to work out.

@pokoko At it's very best in the states, in the lowest regions as stated in Conina's post that being MA the death rate there is still 4.25 that of Ireland, taking a trip to the worst states for it of Alaska and Alabama then the probability of death by gun is increased 29.125x over where I currently live, this is why as an average the figure works out to be 15x greater over all the states, I'm not going to do the math on each alley and each neighbourhood... I'm looking at a scale of danger from a thing which scales from 4.25x more likely all the way up to 29.125x more likely, I'm not "pretending I didn't say it" I'm asking you to concede that it is the case no matter where I would go there, death by gun is far more likely to happen than it is here.

Also if you bold a point to emphasis just how massive something is... and that is wrong, I'm going to call it out, you do the internet version of stomp your foot and point at a figure, it's wrong, it's not me being an asshole to point to why what you're beginning your poor argument of "some places have less shootings though! like this street down the road from me is lovely" has even less grounds to stand on because if you think the sizes matter so much to bold them, then they should matter enough to know which is larger than the other, they're close in size alright but even then it falls to Europe by a bit rather than USA being larger.

edit - Whoa at that list, didn't realise Ireland is so low down on that, 17th from the bottom, good job us! Most of our differences are worked out with potato battles and drinking competition clearly.... (and knacker bare knuckle boxing... but we shouldn't go into that too much!)



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