By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC Discussion - Star Citizen. Finally someone calls a spade a spade. Scam.

 

Star citizen

Crowd funding disaster 23 43.40%
 
Crowd funding success 13 24.53%
 
There is still hope 8 15.09%
 
I have no dog in this fight 9 16.98%
 
Total:53
Faelco on 07 May 2019
Safiir said:
Faelco said:

I already said that it's not a scam, but incompetence.

And yes, you can't just compare budgets, but you can compare polishing and production values. Undertale is far from the production values of The Witcher. I don't think that right now, the production value of SC is higher than TW3. 

Well, right now SC is not even halfway completed. Even right now though you can do things in SC that you can't in any other game. The physics engine is a marvel and that's the main point of a space sim. Again they are surely waaay too inefficient and have lost tons of time with changing engines and completely reworking major features in the game. And that is some thing an experienced developer should not have allowed to happen. But there's a reason why noone has done anything like it before. It truly is a ton of work and it simply takes a lot of time.

Not even halfway completed... So, it should take around 15 years and 400-500 millions in total to finish the game?

Of course no one would ever finance something like this. It would need to be one of the most successful games in history to break even, and it surely won't be. The only way such a fantasy (yeah, developer fantasy, not business project) can be done is because of naive players who paid thousands of dollars for that. It's sad, honestly.

It's just a textbook example of mismanagement, and why you need people with a little business sense in a company. Creative people are usually terrible when money is involved.

Elon Musk has a bit of the same issues with Tesla, he decided to organize the factories his own way instead of following the usual methodologies, and the results are terrible, but it just makes him want to do it his way even more. You have people who are specialist in management (factory, development...), there is a reason for that.



Around the Network
Safiir on 07 May 2019
thismeintiel said:
Safiir said:

A game like undertale cost less than 100k dollars, on 32 months, with 1 employee. The witcher's numbers are on a completely different level and yet it's not several hundred times better.

That's not how production budgets work. You may argue that SC's development is not efficient but a scam it is not.

Maybe not 100 times better to some, but it is 100 times the scale. 

What's currently released in SC is incomparable in scale to the witcher. Even the ArcCorp planet alone is humongous. Granted it is mostly procedurally generated but with such detail that, again, you can't find anywhere else. Compare no man's sky's or elite dangerous' planets with SC and you'll see why it takes so long.



Safiir on 07 May 2019
Faelco said:
Safiir said:

Well, right now SC is not even halfway completed. Even right now though you can do things in SC that you can't in any other game. The physics engine is a marvel and that's the main point of a space sim. Again they are surely waaay too inefficient and have lost tons of time with changing engines and completely reworking major features in the game. And that is some thing an experienced developer should not have allowed to happen. But there's a reason why noone has done anything like it before. It truly is a ton of work and it simply takes a lot of time.

Not even halfway completed... So, it should take around 15 years and 400-500 millions in total to finish the game?

Of course no one would ever finance something like this. It would need to be one of the most successful games in history to break even, and it surely won't be. The only way such a fantasy (yeah, developer fantasy, not business project) can be done is because of naive players who paid thousands of dollars for that. It's sad, honestly.

It's just a textbook example of mismanagement, and why you need people with a little business sense in a company. Creative people are usually terrible when money is involved.

Elon Musk has a bit of the same issues with Tesla, he decided to organize the factories his own way instead of following the usual methodologies, and the results are terrible, but it just makes him want to do it his way even more. You have people who are specialist in management (factory, development...), there is a reason for that.

Nobody else is building a fantasy like that. If all your life you've been dreaming about a game like that is it not worth it to invest even thousands of dollars in order for your fantasy to become a reality?



Faelco on 07 May 2019
Safiir said:
Faelco said:

Not even halfway completed... So, it should take around 15 years and 400-500 millions in total to finish the game?

Of course no one would ever finance something like this. It would need to be one of the most successful games in history to break even, and it surely won't be. The only way such a fantasy (yeah, developer fantasy, not business project) can be done is because of naive players who paid thousands of dollars for that. It's sad, honestly.

It's just a textbook example of mismanagement, and why you need people with a little business sense in a company. Creative people are usually terrible when money is involved.

Elon Musk has a bit of the same issues with Tesla, he decided to organize the factories his own way instead of following the usual methodologies, and the results are terrible, but it just makes him want to do it his way even more. You have people who are specialist in management (factory, development...), there is a reason for that.

Nobody else is building a fantasy like that. If all your life you've been dreaming about a game like that is it not worth it to invest even thousands of dollars in order for your fantasy to become a reality?

People are paying for the developer's fantasy though, it's obvious from the article. The guy always tried to do what he wanted without caring about the consequences, and he has now a perfect opportunity with huge funds handed to him, allowing him to show all his incompetence in service of his fantasy. 

Players have no idea what the final product will really look like: it's his fantasy, his project. The backers have no real words in this. 



RaptorChrist on 07 May 2019
VAMatt said:
Even if it does come out sometime, it is still a scam. The game was supposed to launch 5 years ago. A delay of a few months, maybe even a year or two, could be considered a normal part of game development. But, running 5 years over a deadline is not normal. It means that they lied in the initial pitch, and lied about that lie over and over again. They clearly didn't have the ability to deliver the game, but continually claimed that they would do so.

Didn't their plans become more ambitious as they continued to raise more money, which could explain the delays.

I think the developers have good intentions, at the very least. A "scam" implies that they are manipulating people to get their money, and I'm not sure if that's the case. I know very little of the project, so this is all just speculation.



Around the Network
thismeintiel on 07 May 2019
RaptorChrist said:
VAMatt said:
Even if it does come out sometime, it is still a scam. The game was supposed to launch 5 years ago. A delay of a few months, maybe even a year or two, could be considered a normal part of game development. But, running 5 years over a deadline is not normal. It means that they lied in the initial pitch, and lied about that lie over and over again. They clearly didn't have the ability to deliver the game, but continually claimed that they would do so.

Didn't their plans become more ambitious as they continued to raise more money, which could explain the delays.

I think the developers have good intentions, at the very least. A "scam" implies that they are manipulating people to get their money, and I'm not sure if that's the case. I know very little of the project, so this is all just speculation.

Well, the people who quit said Robert's won't make up his mind on things. Or when he does he changes so things have to be redone. There's one of two things going on. He's either an extreme perfectionist and wants everything a certain way. Of course, if that were the case, they could still put out the product, even if it wasn't 100% finished, years ago and update it regularly, a la No Man's Sky.

Or he's using perfectionism as an excuse to keep this money train going, while having to put out much. Seems he was able to make up his mind on buying a $5M home last year. And on giving his family and friends high paying jobs that he refuses to disclose how much they make.



 

Safiir on 07 May 2019
Faelco said:
Safiir said:

Nobody else is building a fantasy like that. If all your life you've been dreaming about a game like that is it not worth it to invest even thousands of dollars in order for your fantasy to become a reality?

People are paying for the developer's fantasy though, it's obvious from the article. The guy always tried to do what he wanted without caring about the consequences, and he has now a perfect opportunity with huge funds handed to him, allowing him to show all his incompetence in service of his fantasy. 

Players have no idea what the final product will really look like: it's his fantasy, his project. The backers have no real words in this. 

That's not entirely true. Since the dev roadmap was published we have a pretty good idea how things are progressing and there haven't been any huge delays. The problem was the first 4-5 years (yeah that's pretty much as bad as it sounds). Currently things are going pretty smoothly.



CladInShadows on 07 May 2019

I spent 45 bucks on this thing 3 and a half years ago for a copy of the game, some dinky little ship, and a copy of Squadron 42. Honestly, the amount of time spent playing the different builds has ALMOST been worth the 45 dollars. When I get my copy of Squadron 42 (which is the piece I'm most excited about, to tell the truth), it will have been more than worth my initial investment. Star Citizen proper will just be gravy added to that, but the campaign is where my interest lies, and is what I was hoping Star Citizen would be anyways. If Squadron 42 doesn't happen, I will be disappointed, but I won't feel like I've been ripped off or anything. Seeing the game evolve and grow with each build as been a pretty fun experience so far.

I also don't pay attention to those super expensive ship packages that you guys seem to keep harping on. Doesn't affect me one way or another, and if it helps get the game made, then bonus, I guess. But I'll make my way in the game with the shitty little beginner ship I bought over 3 years ago.



Megiddo on 07 May 2019

CladInShadows said:

I also don't pay attention to those super expensive ship packages that you guys seem to keep harping on. Doesn't affect me one way or another...

Expensive Pay 2 Win stuff doesn't affect gameplay?

Gonna have to doubt that.



CladInShadows on 07 May 2019
Megiddo said:

CladInShadows said:

I also don't pay attention to those super expensive ship packages that you guys seem to keep harping on. Doesn't affect me one way or another...

Expensive Pay 2 Win stuff doesn't affect gameplay?

Gonna have to doubt that.

My play style will largely be unaffected by it, since PVP is optional and I fully intend to experience the game with real life friends, not online strangers.