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sundin13 on 06 July 2020
KLXVER said:
sundin13 said:

I agree that it isn't as easy as more training. Again, you should increase funding for social services, remove all military equipment, change the type of calls that police respond to, change what police are supposed to do when they respond to calls, create a system of legal and professional accountability for police misconduct, change and implement numerous laws and regulations to alter how police are supposed to respond to incidents, increase ties between the community and the police force including attempting to hire more members of the community into the police force AND remove the warrior training that is often utilized, replace that warrior training with training on bias, de-escalation and community centered policing. There is more, but that's a good start. 

As for the lack of trust in the police, the police don't really need much help with that. Just over the past couple months with the protests, there were probably hundreds of incidents of police misconduct captured on film and broadcast around the world.

Now, you mention something interesting here. You essentially say that white on black crime is given far more publicity than black on white crime. That seems to be the opposite of reality. This entire article is a pretty good breakdown on the failures of the media when it comes to depictions of crime and its relation to race, but I want to specifically discuss the assertion you've made (the data is taken from multiple sources listed within the provided source):

The Role of News Media & Racial Perceptions of Crime

-In the determination of which homicides should be considered newsworthy, researchers found that journalists gravitated to unusual cases when selecting victims (white women) and to typical cases when selecting perpetrators (black men).

-When comparing representation in media to crime rates, the following trends were found:
--21% of arrestees were black, but 37% of suspects depicted on television were black
--13% of homicide victims were white, but 43% of homicide victims in the local news were white
--10% of cases involved black on white violent crime, but 42% of televised cases involved black on white crime

-Black suspects (and as a side note, black victims too) are portrayed more threateningly than white suspects

https://yourvoiceohio.org/3225-2/

Overall, this implication that the media puts on kid gloves when it comes to black on white crime is pure bullshit. The media consistently contributes to racial stereotypes and has a huge issue with prioritization of white, often female victims of crime, while downplaying and often criminalizing black victims. 

Its not pure bullshit. It might have been in 2014 when the data you provided was taken. It was wrong then and its wrong now. 

I mean can you even name one of the 19 unarmed white people killed by the police last year? Hell can you name one from the last 5 years?

"When a white man kills a person of color, its national news and is discussed and analyzed to death. When a person of color kills a white man, it might get a mention on page 7 of your local newspaper. Its ridiculous. No wonder some people think the US is a racist hellhole."

Are you talking solely about police shootings here? Because you make no indication that you are. If so, I would agree that police shootings of black men get more coverage, however the race of the shooter typically plays less of a factor. That said, is that a bad thing? You said that you didn't want to get into the racial issues in the policing system, but we can get into that if you want. There is a myriad of data showing that the criminal justice system has huge systemic issues with race.

That said, do you have any comment in regards to the other things that I said in that post? I'd like to resolve that discussion regarding defunding and reforming the police before we move on.



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KLXVER on 06 July 2020
sundin13 said:
KLXVER said:

Its not pure bullshit. It might have been in 2014 when the data you provided was taken. It was wrong then and its wrong now. 

I mean can you even name one of the 19 unarmed white people killed by the police last year? Hell can you name one from the last 5 years?

"When a white man kills a person of color, its national news and is discussed and analyzed to death. When a person of color kills a white man, it might get a mention on page 7 of your local newspaper. Its ridiculous. No wonder some people think the US is a racist hellhole."

Are you talking solely about police shootings here? Because you make no indication that you are. If so, I would agree that police shootings of black men get more coverage, however the race of the shooter typically plays less of a factor. That said, is that a bad thing? You said that you didn't want to get into the racial issues in the policing system, but we can get into that if you want. There is a myriad of data showing that the criminal justice system has huge systemic issues with race.

That said, do you have any comment in regards to the other things that I said in that post? I'd like to resolve that discussion regarding defunding and reforming the police before we move on.

I do not think defunding the police is a good idea. It gives them less options and less resources for fighting crime. I thought that was pretty obvious. They cut the NYPD budget by 1 billion dollars and crimes have skyrocketed. Other cities seem to have become worse as well. 

A reform within the police could be good. They should always be conscious of what they can do in order to better themselves. However I dont agree with giving the police less options and more rules when it comes to answering a call. The rules are very clear. Its just easy for some of those rules to fade when you are fighting for your life. 

I was not only talking about police shootings btw. Should have made that more clear.



Bofferbrauer2 on 07 July 2020
sundin13 said:
KLXVER said:

Not really sure what you want me to say. You must have seen the statistics regarding crime in the US. The police interactions that ends up in someone innocent or someone following police orders getting killed are slim to none.

Its hard to argue what the correct way of training a police officer is. If you can stay calm and collected while someone is suddenly pulling out a gun or a knife and start attacking you, then please join the police force. They could use that kind of extraordinary skills. 

One of the reasons crime is so high in the US is because of how broken our justice system is. For decades we have been shipping non-violent offenders to prison, which breeds a culture of criminality and increases recidivism. It is also a symptom of our failure to fund public schooling, housing, and social programs which are powerful tools to reduce criminality.

I would like to add the fact that you loose so many rights when you go to jail, and unlike in Europe, you don't get all of them back after your jailtime. Good luck finding work or even just a place to live if you had been in jail, for instance. Once you had been jailed, it's being very difficult to get a honest income again in the US, which of course increases the risk of them becoming criminals again - potentially violent ones if they need the money urgently even if they had never been violent in their life before.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

Mr_Destiny on 07 July 2020
KLXVER said:
Mr_Destiny said:

You're right, the officer didn't walk in the house--he fired from outside through a partially blocked window, unable to even know if there was a deadly threat on the other side or innocent bystanders put in harm's way. In plainclothes.

NBC article

So even if he went inside, his victims would have no way of knowing if he's police or a criminal invading their home.

Ok, there seems to be several different accounts of what happened. I read and heard that they went inside. It still says that on the Wikipedia page about what happened. He has been fired it seems like at least.

Ah, it seems the first officers to shoot had broken inside, while the one who finished her off firedvthrough the window.



Mr_Destiny on 07 July 2020

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/supreme-court-voting-rights-alabama-texas-wisconsin-florida.html

Alabama was going to have drive-through voting, but the courts say it can't. Florida's poll tax was struck down by a lower court, but on appeal it was upheld--even though the state literally cannot determine how much people owe. In Texas, seniors (the most conservative voting bloc) can vote absentee without an excuse, but not younger people--the courts say nobody is treated unequally, so it can stand. And in Wisconsin, the state court ruled that a statewide law restricting early voting (even in localities that had tried expanding it) for the express purpose of suppressing Democratic votes, is permissable. Because political question doctrine, or something.



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Bofferbrauer2 on 07 July 2020
SpokenTruth said:
Mr_Destiny said:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/supreme-court-voting-rights-alabama-texas-wisconsin-florida.html

Alabama was going to have drive-through voting, but the courts say it can't. Florida's poll tax was struck down by a lower court, but on appeal it was upheld--even though the state literally cannot determine how much people owe. In Texas, seniors (the most conservative voting bloc) can vote absentee without an excuse, but not younger people--the courts say nobody is treated unequally, so it can stand. And in Wisconsin, the state court ruled that a statewide law restricting early voting (even in localities that had tried expanding it) for the express purpose of suppressing Democratic votes, is permissable. Because political question doctrine, or something.

I'll never understand how the nation that sings the praises of democracy so loudly shits on voting so hard.

I think it's because most people don't understand at all what democracy really entails.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

newwil7l on 07 July 2020
CaptainExplosion said:
Cyran said:

I don't think you understand that Supreme Court ruling otherwise no clue how you think it going to limit chose or help Trump.

All it says is that a Electoral College voter can not go rogue and ignore the voters of the state to vote for someone that the voters did not vote for without punishment.

I swear I read "Punish them for not voting for the popular vote.". How is that fair?

How is that not fair? Lol that literally makes the electoral college more democratic.



sundin13 on 07 July 2020
KLXVER said:
sundin13 said:

"When a white man kills a person of color, its national news and is discussed and analyzed to death. When a person of color kills a white man, it might get a mention on page 7 of your local newspaper. Its ridiculous. No wonder some people think the US is a racist hellhole."

Are you talking solely about police shootings here? Because you make no indication that you are. If so, I would agree that police shootings of black men get more coverage, however the race of the shooter typically plays less of a factor. That said, is that a bad thing? You said that you didn't want to get into the racial issues in the policing system, but we can get into that if you want. There is a myriad of data showing that the criminal justice system has huge systemic issues with race.

That said, do you have any comment in regards to the other things that I said in that post? I'd like to resolve that discussion regarding defunding and reforming the police before we move on.

I do not think defunding the police is a good idea. It gives them less options and less resources for fighting crime. I thought that was pretty obvious. They cut the NYPD budget by 1 billion dollars and crimes have skyrocketed. Other cities seem to have become worse as well. 

A reform within the police could be good. They should always be conscious of what they can do in order to better themselves. However I dont agree with giving the police less options and more rules when it comes to answering a call. The rules are very clear. Its just easy for some of those rules to fade when you are fighting for your life. 

I was not only talking about police shootings btw. Should have made that more clear.

Defunding the police is a means of increasing the resources that goes to funding crime by way of restructuring. I felt I had already made this clear, but I will go over it again. Probably the primary goal of the "defund" movement, is changing the type of thing that police respond to. Officers may be asked to respond to everything from drug addiction to barking dogs to mental health issues to cats stuck in trees. None of this really provides benefits when it comes to reducing crime and much of it could be handled better by a separate, non-police group who is trained in handling issues such as mental health, homelessness and addiction. 

It is a commonly stated problem among police that we are asking police to do too much. They largely agree that it doesn't make sense to send them out for a lot of these calls. We shouldn't be sending an armed force to every problem under the sun. As such, the "defund" movement seeks to shrink the responsibilities of the police in order to allow them to focus their efforts on the areas which they could benefit (and shrink their funding in kind), while redirecting some of that funding, and adding additional funding to other means of reducing crime and providing the services that the police used to provide.

As for your assertion that "they cut the NYPD budget by 1 billion dollars and crimes have skyrocketed", this is bullshit. Like, come on dude. This cut has not been enacted yet, and as such, we have yet to see any consequences of this change. The crime spike that we are seeing across the country is considered to largely be the result of the coronavirus, not budget cuts that haven't even went into place yet. 

And if you were not only talking about police shootings, then my initial assessment was correct. You are 100% wrong when it comes to your assertion that the media overrepresents white on black crime while ignoring black on white crime. 

The fact that you believe this stuff absolutely baffles me, when it is the polar opposite of reality. 



KLXVER on 08 July 2020
sundin13 said:
KLXVER said:

I do not think defunding the police is a good idea. It gives them less options and less resources for fighting crime. I thought that was pretty obvious. They cut the NYPD budget by 1 billion dollars and crimes have skyrocketed. Other cities seem to have become worse as well. 

A reform within the police could be good. They should always be conscious of what they can do in order to better themselves. However I dont agree with giving the police less options and more rules when it comes to answering a call. The rules are very clear. Its just easy for some of those rules to fade when you are fighting for your life. 

I was not only talking about police shootings btw. Should have made that more clear.

Defunding the police is a means of increasing the resources that goes to funding crime by way of restructuring. I felt I had already made this clear, but I will go over it again. Probably the primary goal of the "defund" movement, is changing the type of thing that police respond to. Officers may be asked to respond to everything from drug addiction to barking dogs to mental health issues to cats stuck in trees. None of this really provides benefits when it comes to reducing crime and much of it could be handled better by a separate, non-police group who is trained in handling issues such as mental health, homelessness and addiction. 

It is a commonly stated problem among police that we are asking police to do too much. They largely agree that it doesn't make sense to send them out for a lot of these calls. We shouldn't be sending an armed force to every problem under the sun. As such, the "defund" movement seeks to shrink the responsibilities of the police in order to allow them to focus their efforts on the areas which they could benefit (and shrink their funding in kind), while redirecting some of that funding, and adding additional funding to other means of reducing crime and providing the services that the police used to provide.

As for your assertion that "they cut the NYPD budget by 1 billion dollars and crimes have skyrocketed", this is bullshit. Like, come on dude. This cut has not been enacted yet, and as such, we have yet to see any consequences of this change. The crime spike that we are seeing across the country is considered to largely be the result of the coronavirus, not budget cuts that haven't even went into place yet. 

And if you were not only talking about police shootings, then my initial assessment was correct. You are 100% wrong when it comes to your assertion that the media overrepresents white on black crime while ignoring black on white crime. 

The fact that you believe this stuff absolutely baffles me, when it is the polar opposite of reality. 

No, that would be the reform you talked about. Defunding means what it means. Take money away from or give less money to.

I dont get how you dont believe that the media is biased when it comes to this stuff though. If a white man hurts a person of color the headline is always "White man hurts someone." If its the other way around the headline is "Man hurts someone." I cant believe you havent noticed this. 

I saw an article where a black person had done something wrong and the police were looking for him and the description they gave of him was that "He has brown eyes and dark hair" They cant even say hes black for fear of blowback. Sure there was a picture of him, but still...

The 1 Billion dollar cut might not have kicked in yet, but the lower morale of the police probably has. 

We ARE asking the police to do too much, so I agree that they shouldnt have to answer calls of barking dogs and shit like that. But thats not really on them. People keep calling them for stuff like this. And if they didnt answer the call and the dog attacked someone, the police department would be criticized and smeared. So it should be on regular people to call someone else. I dont know who, but if they have a neighborhood watch or something like that, then call them. 

Last edited by KLXVER - on 08 July 2020

Bofferbrauer2 on 08 July 2020

Just gonna leave these here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG37wwhbS88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRnkgLHzHb0



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/