Forums - Politics Discussion - The US Politics |OT|

the-pi-guy said:

This must be your first time in the thread here.  

1.)  I never said I'm above debating people with opposing viewpoints.  In fact, a few people here would say that I give people too much leniency in that regard. 

2.)  You're acting like we should be thankful for adding something to the discussion.  We've got a few thousand posts in here without you.  

3.)  You're free to post in this thread to start debates, discussions, but they should be done honestly.  Like the free speech bit is incredibly dishonest.  

No you just said your wrong and ended the post.  As if that somehow refuted me on every topic....  You wanna debate other people, then don't quote my post.  If you wanna debate me, give me an actual post.  If you just say "YOU'RE WRONG" and run off...  Just like your statement that the "free speech bit is incredibly dishonest"  <- WTF am I supposed to do with that....  Your face is incredibly dishonest....



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Bofferbrauer2 said:

That one word I bolded says it all. You make it out as if everyone in Antifa is a violent jerk. That's their black sheep, which you find in any organisation of sufficient size.

I do agree however that their cause, which was pretty laudable, degenerated a lot since they became more "mainstream". However, they are not nearly as stupid violent against everything as right-wing media would lead you believe.

The fact is that Antifa has a horrible problem with using violence they find acceptable.  This is escalating constantly.  And the left in general is becoming desensitized to using violence.  And they refuse to call out and distance themselves from violence in their groups.  Instead we have people bending over backwards to excuse Antifa giving a gay asian conservative reporter Andy Ngo brain injury.  

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Again, none of these wars have been started by Obama, he just intervened in these conflicts. Otherwise going by your standard, you could just as well say that FDR started WW2.

Bush started Iraq and Afghanistan.  While Obama didn't start these wars, he sure as hell got involved in them.  

Bofferbrauer2 said:

1. Any type of Power generation needs some amount and some way of power retention, be it batteries, pumped-storage Hydroelectricity, Flywheels, compressed air or any other way to retain energy in a different form than electricity for times of need. As such, claiming that only renewable energy would need energy storage is flat-out wrong. This is especially true with nuclear energy, as that one needs a long time to raise or lower it's power production and on it's own would certainly need more energy storage than renewables do.

2. This could be true if industrial batteries would also be using Lithium batteries like consumer devices do. But Lithium batteries are not very economic in that scenario despite their low price. Most new big grid batteries use batteries made out of sodium-sulphur or vanadium to store the energy. Home energy storage used to use lead acid, then Lithium-ion, but are also increasingly made of used electric car batteries, as they are not viable to use in cars anymore but still good for home battery systems. Besides, recycling of Lithium, while difficult, is very much possible. Also, a new Lithium power pack at home should last at least 12-15 years before it needs replacement. Finally, while the dangers of Lithium have been played up, the actual environmental danger for recycling came from Cobalt - which is not present in new Lithium-Iron batteries.

3. Why would you need to cut trees? You can put them in the midst of fields, into the ocean or even in a free spot in a forest without having to cut a single tree. Modern windmills are so tall that they completely dwarf most trees anyway, so even if there were a couple in the way, they would only cut efficiency by single digits.

4. Need to find the source again, but according to statistics, 240k birds died in a year from windmills in the US. But compared to 1.9 million in Toronto alone or 370-980 millions in the US who crashed against office towers, that's a real low number. So yeah, there are birds that die from windmills - but a single office tower is a bigger bird killer than an entire windmill farm. The study also found that just looking at the amount of birds dying from crashing against any structure is also misleading, as it doesn't show what effect they have on bird births. Power plants take up lots of space which birds can't use for nesting anymore, for instance, can have worse long-term effects on the bird population that windmills.straight. Yeah, right...

https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/

^ Theres your toxic waste from solar panels.  And carbon dioxide arguably isn't even dangerous.  

https://co2coalition.org/

about 20-30 PhDs in relevant fields make that statement, including former president of Green Peace Patrick Moore.  

And expense is the problem with cutting trees.  Is it cheaper to make them massive or to clear cut  a forest and make them short.  They're a fake solution anyways.  All these countries making windmills just do it because they start buying the missing energy from France's nuclear program.  

Last edited by DarkD - on 16 February 2020

DarkD said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

1. Any type of Power generation needs some amount and some way of power retention, be it batteries, pumped-storage Hydroelectricity, Flywheels, compressed air or any other way to retain energy in a different form than electricity for times of need. As such, claiming that only renewable energy would need energy storage is flat-out wrong. This is especially true with nuclear energy, as that one needs a long time to raise or lower it's power production and on it's own would certainly need more energy storage than renewables do.

2. This could be true if industrial batteries would also be using Lithium batteries like consumer devices do. But Lithium batteries are not very economic in that scenario despite their low price. Most new big grid batteries use batteries made out of sodium-sulphur or vanadium to store the energy. Home energy storage used to use lead acid, then Lithium-ion, but are also increasingly made of used electric car batteries, as they are not viable to use in cars anymore but still good for home battery systems. Besides, recycling of Lithium, while difficult, is very much possible. Also, a new Lithium power pack at home should last at least 12-15 years before it needs replacement. Finally, while the dangers of Lithium have been played up, the actual environmental danger for recycling came from Cobalt - which is not present in new Lithium-Iron batteries.

3. Why would you need to cut trees? You can put them in the midst of fields, into the ocean or even in a free spot in a forest without having to cut a single tree. Modern windmills are so tall that they completely dwarf most trees anyway, so even if there were a couple in the way, they would only cut efficiency by single digits.

4. Need to find the source again, but according to statistics, 240k birds died in a year from windmills in the US. But compared to 1.9 million in Toronto alone or 370-980 millions in the US who crashed against office towers, that's a real low number. So yeah, there are birds that die from windmills - but a single office tower is a bigger bird killer than an entire windmill farm. The study also found that just looking at the amount of birds dying from crashing against any structure is also misleading, as it doesn't show what effect they have on bird births. Power plants take up lots of space which birds can't use for nesting anymore, for instance, can have worse long-term effects on the bird population that windmills.straight. Yeah, right...

Bush started Iraq and Afghanistan.  While Obama didn't start these wars, he sure as hell got involved in them.  

https://fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally/

^ Theres your toxic waste from solar panels.  And carbon dioxide arguably isn't even dangerous.  

https://co2coalition.org/

about 20-30 PhDs in relevant fields make that statement, including former president of Green Peace Patrick Moore.  

And expense is the problem with cutting trees.  Is it cheaper to make them massive or to clear cut  a forest and make them short.  They're a fake solution anyways.  All these countries making windmills just do it because they start buying the missing energy from France's nuclear program.  

The CO2 coalition is funded by the Koch Brothers and the Mercer Family Foundation, two groups which are heavily denying climate change because they profit from dirty energy. The Koch brothers have extensive polluting industries, so of course they wan to discredit the climate change as it damages their profits. Mercer is a long time supporter of fringe biology ideas. I'd say that already says it all about how serious you should take their "research".

@italic: Just breathe a higher than 2% amount of CO2 in the atmosphere an you will slowly die due to CO2 splitting up to Carbon Monoxide, which stays in your lungs and stops them from being usable. Result: A slow asphyxiation death. Which would go for everyone on this planet, Human and animal alike

@bolded: What do you try to say here? They are producing wind energy because they start buying nuclear energy??? That sentence makes no sense at all.

Besides, if you take a good look to Europe, you'll see something that will blow your mind: They are building windmills everywhere... and yet the forests are growing! No tree-cutting for windmills necessary, like I said before. Having to cut trees for windmills is a myth.



DarkD said:
KLAMarine said:

"-against solar and wind power (horrible for the environment)"

>How are these bad for the environment?

Solar power comes with batteries.  The batteries actually make solar power the worst form of energy.  Wind power is just nonsense. Trees are one of the best methods of removing carbon from the air and wind requires us to cut enormous amounts of them down to get any effect.  Not to mention they come with bird graveyards.  

Solar power may not be the most efficient, and is practically impossible to rely on 100% (or anywhere even close to 100% actually), but it's still way better for the environment than something like coal power. Plus, solar power is never going to have a Chernobyl.

Why does wind power "require" us to cut down trees? Ever heard of offshore wind power? Or ya know, plains/hills that just don't have trees in the first place?

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 17 February 2020

Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

How was this hateful lunatic allowed to be a policeman?

Doesn't matter whether or not the officer mistook the student for a suspect, stuff like this shouldn't even be happening, and often when it's happened it's lead to fatalities of unarmed civilians.

I hope the officer in question is sacked for this. -_-

Ka-pi96 said:
DarkD said:

Solar power comes with batteries.  The batteries actually make solar power the worst form of energy.  Wind power is just nonsense. Trees are one of the best methods of removing carbon from the air and wind requires us to cut enormous amounts of them down to get any effect.  Not to mention they come with bird graveyards.  

Solar power may not be the most efficient, and is practically impossible to rely on 100% (or anywhere even close to 100% actually), but it's still way better for the environment than something like coal power. Plus, solar power is never going to have a Chernobyl.

Why does wind power "require" us to cut down trees? Ever heard of offshore wind power? Or ya know, plains/hills that just don't have trees in the first place?

Exactly. Wind power is more effective in areas like by the sea or in fields.



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the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

Going by that graph, looks like when Republicans take control the economy does well. Kind of like the comparison between California and Texas. Also there are more jobs than workers vs 10% unemployment rate under Obama and the Demorats. Thank you Donald and Republicans for saving our Country.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-u-s-has-1-million-more-job-openings-than-unemployed-workers/

Nothing greater than the hubris of a conservative.  

DarkD said:

This thread is supposed to be for debate. if you aren't here to debate then go somewhere else.  I literally gave you a page worth of topics to argue with me on and you offer me a "You're biased and I'm ABOVE debating people from opposing viewpoints".

This must be your first time in the thread here.  

1.)  I never said I'm above debating people with opposing viewpoints.  In fact, a few people here would say that I give people too much leniency in that regard. 

2.)  You're acting like we should be thankful for adding something to the discussion.  We've got a few thousand posts in here without you.  

3.)  You're free to post in this thread to start debates, discussions, but they should be done honestly.  Like the free speech bit is incredibly dishonest.  

Snoopy said:

Actually, the economy started to get bad when Democrats took over the house and started to recover when Republicans took it back.  The house holds more power than the president if overtaken by the opposition party. Basic politics 101.  Look how low the unemployment rate is when Republicans control everything.

>The economy is doing great under Trump and Bush and bad under Obama!  

"Not quite"

>That's because Democrats were in control of X during Bush's administration.  


You magically always find a way to give credit to Republicans, no matter how much logic you have to spin to make it happen. According to you, the economy magically responds to Republicans in power, even when they haven't done anything.  No laws need to be passed, just economy growing bigly from how awesome Republicans are.  

Let's do this as factually as possible.Instead of looking at a graph, let's look at a table.  

We have all the data from January 1990 of the unemployment.

Followed by the change in unemployment from the previous month.

Whether the president, the majority of the house and the senate respectively was Republican or Democrat are the next 3 columns.

The next 3 columns, and this is where I'm likely to have made a mistake, says R if your trend is correct for that month based off the party.  Or W if it's wrong.  

The trend here of course is whether Democrats hurt the unemployment rate and whether Republicans help it.

The last 3 columns count how many times you've been right.  The maximum possible number is 361, as this covers 361 months.  

I very well could have messed up the formula, so if someone wants to spot check.  

Change President House Senate President House Senate 0 0 0
Jan-90 5.9 0 R D D W R R 0 1 1
Feb-90 6.2 0.3 R D D W R R 0 2 2
Mar-90 6.3 0.1 R D D W R R 0 3 3
Apr-90 5.4 -0.9 R D D W R R 0 4 4
May-90 5.3 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 5 5
Jun-90 5.2 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 6 6
Jul-90 5.4 0.2 R D D W R R 0 7 7
Aug-90 5.4 0 R D D W R R 0 8 8
Sep-90 5.2 -0.2 R D D W R R 0 9 9
Oct-90 5.5 0.3 R D D W R R 0 10 10
Nov-90 5.7 0.2 R D D W R R 0 11 11
Dec-90 5.9 0.2 R D D W R R 0 12 12
Jan-91 5.9 0 R D D W R R 0 13 13
Feb-91 6.2 0.3 R D D W R R 0 14 14
Mar-91 6.3 0.1 R D D W R R 0 15 15
Apr-91 6.4 0.1 R D D W R R 0 16 16
May-91 6.6 0.2 R D D W R R 0 17 17
Jun-91 6.8 0.2 R D D W R R 0 18 18
Jul-91 6.7 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 19 19
Aug-91 6.9 0.2 R D D W R R 0 20 20
Sep-91 6.9 0 R D D W R R 0 21 21
Oct-91 6.8 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 22 22
Nov-91 6.9 0.1 R D D W R R 0 23 23
Dec-91 6.9 0 R D D W R R 0 24 24
Jan-92 7 0.1 R D D W R R 0 25 25
Feb-92 7 0 R D D W R R 0 26 26
Mar-92 7.3 0.3 R D D W R R 0 27 27
Apr-92 7.3 0 R D D W R R 0 28 28
May-92 7.4 0.1 R D D W R R 0 29 29
Jun-92 7.4 0 R D D W R R 0 30 30
Jul-92 7.4 0 R D D W R R 0 31 31
Aug-92 7.6 0.2 R D D W R R 0 32 32
Sep-92 7.8 0.2 R D D W R R 0 33 33
Oct-92 7.7 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 34 34
Nov-92 7.6 -0.1 R D D W R R 0 35 35
Dec-92 7.6 0 R D D W R R 0 36 36
Jan-93 7.3 -0.3 R D D W R R 0 37 37
Feb-93 7.4 0.1 D D D R R R 1 38 38
Mar-93 7.4 0 D D D R R R 2 39 39
Apr-93 7.3 -0.1 D D D R R R 3 40 40
May-93 7.1 -0.2 D D D R R R 4 41 41
Jun-93 7 -0.1 D D D R R R 5 42 42
Jul-93 7.1 0.1 D D D R R R 6 43 43
Aug-93 7.1 0 D D D R R R 7 44 44
Sep-93 7 -0.1 D D D R R R 8 45 45
Oct-93 6.9 -0.1 D D D R R R 9 46 46
Nov-93 6.8 -0.1 D D D R R R 10 47 47
Dec-93 6.7 -0.1 D D D R R R 11 48 48
Jan-94 6.8 0.1 D D D R R R 12 49 49
Feb-94 6.6 -0.2 D D D R R R 13 50 50
Mar-94 6.5 -0.1 D D D R R R 14 51 51
Apr-94 6.6 0.1 D D D R R R 15 52 52
May-94 6.6 0 D D D R R R 16 53 53
Jun-94 6.5 -0.1 D D D R R R 17 54 54
Jul-94 6.4 -0.1 D D D R R R 18 55 55
Aug-94 6.1 -0.3 D D D R R R 19 56 56
Sep-94 6.1 0 D D D R R R 20 57 57
Oct-94 6.1 0 D D D R R R 21 58 58
Nov-94 6 -0.1 D D D R R R 22 59 59
Dec-94 5.9 -0.1 D D D R R R 23 60 60
Jan-95 5.8 -0.1 D R R R W W 24 60 60
Feb-95 5.6 -0.2 D R R R W W 25 60 60
Mar-95 5.5 -0.1 D R R R W W 26 60 60
Apr-95 5.6 0.1 D R R R W W 27 60 60
May-95 5.4 -0.2 D R R R W W 28 60 60
Jun-95 5.4 0 D R R R W W 29 60 60
Jul-95 5.8 0.4 D R R R W W 30 60 60
Aug-95 5.6 -0.2 D R R R W W 31 60 60
Sep-95 5.6 0 D R R R W W 32 60 60
Oct-95 5.7 0.1 D R R R W W 33 60 60
Nov-95 5.7 0 D R R R W W 34 60 60
Dec-95 5.6 -0.1 D R R R W W 35 60 60
Jan-96 5.5 -0.1 D R R R W W 36 60 60
Feb-96 5.6 0.1 D R R R W W 37 60 60
Mar-96 5.6 0 D R R R W W 38 60 60
Apr-96 5.6 0 D R R R W W 39 60 60
May-96 5.5 -0.1 D R R R W W 40 60 60
Jun-96 5.5 0 D R R R W W 41 60 60
Jul-96 5.6 0.1 D R R R W W 42 60 60
Aug-96 5.6 0 D R R R W W 43 60 60
Sep-96 5.3 -0.3 D R R R W W 44 60 60
Oct-96 5.5 0.2 D R R R W W 45 60 60
Nov-96 5.1 -0.4 D R R R W W 46 60 60
Dec-96 5.2 0.1 D R R R W W 47 60 60
Jan-97 5.2 0 D R R R W W 48 60 60
Feb-97 5.4 0.2 D R R R W W 49 60 60
Mar-97 5.4 0 D R R R W W 50 60 60
Apr-97 5.3 -0.1 D R R R W W 51 60 60
May-97 5.2 -0.1 D R R R W W 52 60 60
Jun-97 5.2 0 D R R R W W 53 60 60
Jul-97 5.1 -0.1 D R R R W W 54 60 60
Aug-97 4.9 -0.2 D R R R W W 55 60 60
Sep-97 5 0.1 D R R R W W 56 60 60
Oct-97 4.9 -0.1 D R R R W W 57 60 60
Nov-97 4.8 -0.1 D R R R W W 58 60 60
Dec-97 4.9 0.1 D R R R W W 59 60 60
Jan-98 4.7 -0.2 D R R R W W 60 60 60
Feb-98 4.6 -0.1 D R R R W W 61 60 60
Mar-98 4.7 0.1 D R R R W W 62 60 60
Apr-98 4.6 -0.1 D R R R W W 63 60 60
May-98 4.6 0 D R R R W W 64 60 60
Jun-98 4.7 0.1 D R R R W W 65 60 60
Jul-98 4.3 -0.4 D R R R W W 66 60 60
Aug-98 4.4 0.1 D R R R W W 67 60 60
Sep-98 4.5 0.1 D R R R W W 68 60 60
Oct-98 4.5 0 D R R R W W 69 60 60
Nov-98 4.5 0 D R R R W W 70 60 60
Dec-98 4.6 0.1 D R R R W W 71 60 60
Jan-99 4.5 -0.1 D R R R W W 72 60 60
Feb-99 4.4 -0.1 D R R R W W 73 60 60
Mar-99 4.4 0 D R R R W W 74 60 60
Apr-99 4.3 -0.1 D R R R W W 75 60 60
May-99 4.4 0.1 D R R R W W 76 60 60
Jun-99 4.2 -0.2 D R R R W W 77 60 60
Jul-99 4.3 0.1 D R R R W W 78 60 60
Aug-99 4.2 -0.1 D R R R W W 79 60 60
Sep-99 4.3 0.1 D R R R W W 80 60 60
Oct-99 4.3 0 D R R R W W 81 60 60
Nov-99 4.2 -0.1 D R R R W W 82 60 60
Dec-99 4.2 0 D R R R W W 83 60 60
Jan-00 4.1 -0.1 D R R R W W 84 60 60
Feb-00 4.1 0 D R R R W W 85 60 60
Mar-00 4 -0.1 D R R R W W 86 60 60
Apr-00 4 0 D R R R W W 87 60 60
May-00 4.1 0.1 D R R R W W 88 60 60
Jun-00 4 -0.1 D R R R W W 89 60 60
Jul-00 3.8 -0.2 D R R R W W 90 60 60
Aug-00 4 0.2 D R R R W W 91 60 60
Sep-00 4 0 D R R R W W 92 60 60
Oct-00 4 0 D R R R W W 93 60 60
Nov-00 4.1 0.1 D R R R W W 94 60 60
Dec-00 3.9 -0.2 D R R R W W 95 60 60
Jan-01 3.9 0 D R D R W R 96 60 61
Feb-01 3.9 0 R R R W W W 96 60 61
Mar-01 3.9 0 R R R W W W 96 60 61
Apr-01 4.2 0.3 R R R W W W 96 60 61
May-01 4.2 0 R R R W W W 96 60 61
Jun-01 4.3 0.1 R R D* W W R 96 60 62
Jul-01 4.4 0.1 R R D* W W R 96 60 63
Aug-01 4.3 -0.1 R R D* W W W 96 60 63
Sep-01 4.5 0.2 R R D* W W R 96 60 64
Oct-01 4.6 0.1 R R D* W W R 96 60 65
Nov-01 4.9 0.3 R R D* W W R 96 60 66
Dec-01 5 0.1 R R D* W W R 96 60 67
Jan-02 5.3 0.3 R R D* W W R 96 60 68
Feb-02 5.5 0.2 R R D* W W R 96 60 69
Mar-02 5.7 0.2 R R D* W W R 96 60 70
Apr-02 5.7 0 R R D* W W W 96 60 70
May-02 5.7 0 R R D* W W W 96 60 70
Jun-02 5.7 0 R R D* W W W 96 60 70
Jul-02 5.9 0.2 R R D* W W R 96 60 71
Aug-02 5.8 -0.1 R R D* W W W 96 60 71
Sep-02 5.8 0 R R D* W W W 96 60 71
Oct-02 5.8 0 R R D* W W W 96 60 71
Nov-02 5.7 -0.1 R R D* W W W 96 60 71
Dec-02 5.7 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jan-03 5.7 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Feb-03 5.9 0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Mar-03 6 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Apr-03 5.8 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
May-03 5.9 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jun-03 5.9 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jul-03 6 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Aug-03 6.1 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Sep-03 6.3 0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Oct-03 6.2 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Nov-03 6.1 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Dec-03 6.1 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jan-04 6 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Feb-04 5.8 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Mar-04 5.7 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Apr-04 5.7 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
May-04 5.6 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jun-04 5.8 0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jul-04 5.6 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Aug-04 5.6 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Sep-04 5.6 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Oct-04 5.5 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Nov-04 5.4 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Dec-04 5.4 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jan-05 5.5 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Feb-05 5.4 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Mar-05 5.4 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Apr-05 5.3 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
May-05 5.4 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jun-05 5.2 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jul-05 5.2 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Aug-05 5.1 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Sep-05 5 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Oct-05 5 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Nov-05 4.9 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Dec-05 5 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jan-06 5 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Feb-06 5 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Mar-06 4.9 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Apr-06 4.7 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
May-06 4.8 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jun-06 4.7 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jul-06 4.7 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Aug-06 4.6 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Sep-06 4.6 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Oct-06 4.7 0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Nov-06 4.7 0 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Dec-06 4.5 -0.2 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Jan-07 4.4 -0.1 R R R W W W 96 60 71
Feb-07 4.5 0.1 R D D W R R 96 61 72
Mar-07 4.4 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 62 73
Apr-07 4.6 0.2 R D D W R R 96 63 74
May-07 4.5 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 64 75
Jun-07 4.4 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 65 76
Jul-07 4.5 0.1 R D D W R R 96 66 77
Aug-07 4.4 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 67 78
Sep-07 4.6 0.2 R D D W R R 96 68 79
Oct-07 4.7 0.1 R D D W R R 96 69 80
Nov-07 4.6 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 70 81
Dec-07 4.7 0.1 R D D W R R 96 71 82
Jan-08 4.7 0 R D D W R R 96 72 83
Feb-08 4.7 0 R D D W R R 96 73 84
Mar-08 5 0.3 R D D W R R 96 74 85
Apr-08 5 0 R D D W R R 96 75 86
May-08 4.9 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 76 87
Jun-08 5.1 0.2 R D D W R R 96 77 88
Jul-08 5 -0.1 R D D W R R 96 78 89
Aug-08 5.4 0.4 R D D W R R 96 79 90
Sep-08 5.6 0.2 R D D W R R 96 80 91
Oct-08 5.8 0.2 R D D W R R 96 81 92
Nov-08 6.1 0.3 R D D W R R 96 82 93
Dec-08 6.1 0 R D D W R R 96 83 94
Jan-09 6.5 0.4 R D D W R R 96 84 95
Feb-09 6.8 0.3 D D D R R R 97 85 96
Mar-09 7.3 0.5 D D D R R R 98 86 97
Apr-09 7.8 0.5 D D D R R R 99 87 98
May-09 8.3 0.5 D D D R R R 100 88 99
Jun-09 8.7 0.4 D D D R R R 101 89 100
Jul-09 9 0.3 D D D R R R 102 90 101
Aug-09 9.4 0.4 D D D R R R 103 91 102
Sep-09 9.5 0.1 D D D R R R 104 92 103
Oct-09 9.5 0 D D D R R R 105 93 104
Nov-09 9.6 0.1 D D D R R R 106 94 105
Dec-09 9.8 0.2 D D D R R R 107 95 106
Jan-10 10 0.2 D D D R R R 108 96 107
Feb-10 9.9 -0.1 D D D R R R 109 97 108
Mar-10 9.9 0 D D D R R R 110 98 109
Apr-10 9.8 -0.1 D D D R R R 111 99 110
May-10 9.8 0 D D D R R R 112 100 111
Jun-10 9.9 0.1 D D D R R R 113 101 112
Jul-10 9.9 0 D D D R R R 114 102 113
Aug-10 9.6 -0.3 D D D R R R 115 103 114
Sep-10 9.4 -0.2 D D D R R R 116 104 115
Oct-10 9.4 0 D D D R R R 117 105 116
Nov-10 9.5 0.1 D D D R R R 118 106 117
Dec-10 9.5 0 D D D R R R 119 107 118
Jan-11 9.4 -0.1 D R D R W R 120 107 119
Feb-11 9.8 0.4 D R D R W R 121 107 120
Mar-11 9.3 -0.5 D R D R W R 122 107 121
Apr-11 9.1 -0.2 D R D R W R 123 107 122
May-11 9 -0.1 D R D R W R 124 107 123
Jun-11 9 0 D R D R W R 125 107 124
Jul-11 9.1 0.1 D R D R W R 126 107 125
Aug-11 9 -0.1 D R D R W R 127 107 126
Sep-11 9.1 0.1 D R D R W R 128 107 127
Oct-11 9 -0.1 D R D R W R 129 107 128
Nov-11 9 0 D R D R W R 130 107 129
Dec-11 9 0 D R D R W R 131 107 130
Jan-12 8.8 -0.2 D R D R W R 132 107 131
Feb-12 8.6 -0.2 D R D R W R 133 107 132
Mar-12 8.5 -0.1 D R D R W R 134 107 133
Apr-12 8.3 -0.2 D R D R W R 135 107 134
May-12 8.3 0 D R D R W R 136 107 135
Jun-12 8.2 -0.1 D R D R W R 137 107 136
Jul-12 8.2 0 D R D R W R 138 107 137
Aug-12 8.2 0 D R D R W R 139 107 138
Sep-12 8.2 0 D R D R W R 140 107 139
Oct-12 8.2 0 D R D R W R 141 107 140
Nov-12 8.1 -0.1 D R D R W R 142 107 141
Dec-12 7.8 -0.3 D R D R W R 143 107 142
Jan-13 7.8 0 D R D R W R 144 107 143
Feb-13 7.7 -0.1 D R D R W R 145 107 144
Mar-13 7.9 0.2 D R D R W R 146 107 145
Apr-13 8 0.1 D R D R W R 147 107 146
May-13 7.7 -0.3 D R D R W R 148 107 147
Jun-13 7.5 -0.2 D R D R W R 149 107 148
Jul-13 7.6 0.1 D R D R W R 150 107 149
Aug-13 7.5 -0.1 D R D R W R 151 107 150
Sep-13 7.5 0 D R D R W R 152 107 151
Oct-13 7.3 -0.2 D R D R W R 153 107 152
Nov-13 7.2 -0.1 D R D R W R 154 107 153
Dec-13 7.2 0 D R D R W R 155 107 154
Jan-14 7.2 0 D R D R W R 156 107 155
Feb-14 6.9 -0.3 D R D R W R 157 107 156
Mar-14 6.7 -0.2 D R D R W R 158 107 157
Apr-14 6.6 -0.1 D R D R W R 159 107 158
May-14 6.7 0.1 D R D R W R 160 107 159
Jun-14 6.7 0 D R D R W R 161 107 160
Jul-14 6.2 -0.5 D R D R W R 162 107 161
Aug-14 6.3 0.1 D R D R W R 163 107 162
Sep-14 6.1 -0.2 D R D R W R 164 107 163
Oct-14 6.2 0.1 D R D R W R 165 107 164
Nov-14 6.1 -0.1 D R D R W R 166 107 165
Dec-14 5.9 -0.2 D R D R W R 167 107 166
Jan-15 5.7 -0.2 D R R R W W 168 107 166
Feb-15 5.8 0.1 D R R R W W 169 107 166
Mar-15 5.6 -0.2 D R R R W W 170 107 166
Apr-15 5.7 0.1 D R R R W W 171 107 166
May-15 5.5 -0.2 D R R R W W 172 107 166
Jun-15 5.4 -0.1 D R R R W W 173 107 166
Jul-15 5.4 0 D R R R W W 174 107 166
Aug-15 5.6 0.2 D R R R W W 175 107 166
Sep-15 5.3 -0.3 D R R R W W 176 107 166
Oct-15 5.2 -0.1 D R R R W W 177 107 166
Nov-15 5.1 -0.1 D R R R W W 178 107 166
Dec-15 5 -0.1 D R R R W W 179 107 166
Jan-16 5 0 D R R R W W 180 107 166
Feb-16 5.1 0.1 D R R R W W 181 107 166
Mar-16 5 -0.1 D R R R W W 182 107 166
Apr-16 4.9 -0.1 D R R R W W 183 107 166
May-16 4.9 0 D R R R W W 184 107 166
Jun-16 5 0.1 D R R R W W 185 107 166
Jul-16 5 0 D R R R W W 186 107 166
Aug-16 4.8 -0.2 D R R R W W 187 107 166
Sep-16 4.9 0.1 D R R R W W 188 107 166
Oct-16 4.8 -0.1 D R R R W W 189 107 166
Nov-16 4.9 0.1 D R R R W W 190 107 166
Dec-16 5 0.1 D R R R W W 191 107 166
Jan-17 4.9 -0.1 D R R R W W 192 107 166
Feb-17 4.7 -0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Mar-17 4.7 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Apr-17 4.7 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
May-17 4.6 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jun-17 4.4 -0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jul-17 4.4 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Aug-17 4.4 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Sep-17 4.3 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Oct-17 4.3 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Nov-17 4.4 0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Dec-17 4.2 -0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jan-18 4.1 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Feb-18 4.2 0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Mar-18 4.1 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Apr-18 4.1 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
May-18 4.1 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jun-18 4 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jul-18 4 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Aug-18 3.8 -0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Sep-18 4 0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Oct-18 3.8 -0.2 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Nov-18 3.8 0 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Dec-18 3.7 -0.1 R R R W W W 192 107 166
Jan-19 3.8 0.1 R D R W R W 192 108 166
Feb-19 3.7 -0.1 R D R W R W 192 109 166
Mar-19 3.9 0.2 R D R W R W 192 110 166
Apr-19 4 0.1 R D R W R W 192 111 166
May-19 3.8 -0.2 R D R W R W 192 112 166
Jun-19 3.8 0 R D R W R W 192 113 166
Jul-19 3.6 -0.2 R D R W R W 192 114 166
Aug-19 3.6 0 R D R W R W 192 115 166
Sep-19 3.7 0.1 R D R W R W 192 116 166
Oct-19 3.7 0 R D R W R W 192 117 166
Nov-19 3.7 0 R D R W R W 192 118 166
Dec-19 3.5 -0.2 R D R W R W 192 119 166
Jan-20 3.6 0.1 R D R W R W 192 120 166

So assuming this is all done correctly: 

Your belief is right 192/361 for the president.  For the House, it is only right 120/361.  For the senate it is right only 166/361.

If all that data is correct, it would mean that things fair better on average when the House and Senate have Democratic majorities with a Republican president.  

Or the political parties don't actually have anywhere near the impact you think they do.

You messed up badly, but I forgive you. Let's take a look at these pictures, because a picture is worth a thousand words. As you can see, when Obama and the Democrats took over everything the economy gotten a lot worse. When Republicans took the house and senate back, the economy started to do much better. When Trump and Republicans took over everything, the economy had a record unemployment rate.

Also, we can look at the tale of two States, Texas and California. California, control by Democrats have record number of homeless people, higher unemployment rate and so expensive that everyone is leaving. While the opposite is happening for Texas.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 17 February 2020

Best economy ever.  Right?  Well, perhaps not.  Even according to Donald Trump himself.

Federal workers are requesting a raise to which President Trump responded by calling it "inappropriate".  But why inappropriate?  Because of the following statement in Title 5 U.S. Code § 5304a: "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."

In other words, we are either under a national emergency or we are experiencing serious economic conditions that affect the general welfare. And therefore a raise would be inappropriate.

He also stated, "We must maintain efforts to put our Nation on a fiscally sustainable course; Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases."  Is he saying the greatest economy ever cannot sustain a federal employee pay raise?  Funny how he increased the hell out of the military budget but doesn't want to pay his own employees more money.

Let's look at some recent federal budgets, shall we?


2018 - $4.1 trillion
2019 - $4.4 trillion
2020 - $4.7 trillion
2021 - $4.8 trillion


Trump has finally agreed to a 1% increase in pay BUT he wants pay locked at the new 2020 pay rate for however long.  No date was given. Keep in mind that 1% won't even keep up with inflation.

By the way, that US code I cited is a law that allows the president to insert an alternative pay for federal employees based on the aforementioned "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."  So what was the original proposal by Congress?  2.5%. But apparently the greatest economy ever cannot afford 2.5%.

The good news for federal employees is that Congress can ignore this presidential alternative and move forward with their original plan.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Snoopy said:

You messed up badly, but I forgive you. Let's take a look at these pictures, because a picture is worth a thousand words. As you can see, 1). when Obama and the Democrats took over everything the economy gotten a lot worse. When Republicans took the house and senate back, the economy started to do much better. 2). When Trump and Republicans took over everything, the economy had a record unemployment rate.

Also, we can look at the tale of two States, Texas and California. California, control by Democrats have record number of homeless people, higher unemployment rate and 3). so expensive that everyone is leaving. While the opposite is happening for Texas.

1). Perhaps you missed it but we had a global economic recession and a subprime mortgage crisis.

2). You don't seem to understand what a trend is.  And this isn't your first not understanding it either.  We've had this conversation before.

3). But capitalism.  Isn't that why prices are so high in California?  I thought you guys were all about that.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

Best economy ever.  Right?  Well, perhaps not.  Even according to Donald Trump himself.

Federal workers are requesting a raise to which President Trump responded by calling it "inappropriate".  But why inappropriate?  Because of the following statement in Title 5 U.S. Code § 5304a: "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."

In other words, we are either under a national emergency or we are experiencing serious economic conditions that affect the general welfare. And therefore a raise would be inappropriate.

He also stated, "We must maintain efforts to put our Nation on a fiscally sustainable course; Federal agency budgets cannot sustain such increases."  Is he saying the greatest economy ever cannot sustain a federal employee pay raise?  Funny how he increased the hell out of the military budget but doesn't want to pay his own employees more money.

Let's look at some recent federal budgets, shall we?


2018 - $4.1 trillion
2019 - $4.4 trillion
2020 - $4.7 trillion
2021 - $4.8 trillion


Trump has finally agreed to a 1% increase in pay BUT he wants pay locked at the new 2020 pay rate for however long.  No date was given. Keep in mind that 1% won't even keep up with inflation.

By the way, that US code I cited is a law that allows the president to insert an alternative pay for federal employees based on the aforementioned "national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare."  So what was the original proposal by Congress?  2.5%. But apparently the greatest economy ever cannot afford 2.5%.

The good news for federal employees is that Congress can ignore this presidential alternative and move forward with their original plan.

This on top of all the interest rate cuts last year, a move generally reserved to dig out of recessions. What are we gonna do once we're actually in one?



Ka-pi96 said:
DarkD said:

Solar power comes with batteries.  The batteries actually make solar power the worst form of energy.  Wind power is just nonsense. Trees are one of the best methods of removing carbon from the air and wind requires us to cut enormous amounts of them down to get any effect.  Not to mention they come with bird graveyards.  

Solar power may not be the most efficient, and is practically impossible to rely on 100% (or anywhere even close to 100% actually), but it's still way better for the environment than something like coal power. Plus, solar power is never going to have a Chernobyl.

Why does wind power "require" us to cut down trees? Ever heard of offshore wind power? Or ya know, plains/hills that just don't have trees in the first place?

If they were anticipating the unforeseen disaster at Chernobyl, don't you think they wouldn't have built it in the first place? If there ever becomes a problem of some sort with solar, while the sites are usually smaller in general, there are a ton of them all over the place, and a significant portion are fairly close to densely populated area's in comparison.

You can't just slap solar panels or wind turbines just anywhere. Well you can, but if the power output is lousy because it's a typically cloudy or calm area, you've done a poor job of investing and will pay dearly for it. If the hills without trees are in a typically calm area, then nobody is going to bother erecting wind turbines there. They will put them two hours north, in the densely forested hills, which will be cleared, where the wind is typically potent.

I've been on many wind and solar sites, where they cut down hundreds of acres of trees or more. This is because you aren't aloud to mount panels on useful open farmland, and nobody places them where they won't see much sun or get much wind. If that means clearing forest, that's what they do.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.