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The US Politics |OT|

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tsogud said:
EricHiggin said:

"Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better."

The youngest most hardcore capitalists agree with you, because after all is said and done, they become richer than they could have ever imagined. People in need are 'friends' indeed.

Interacting with you should be considered an art from because I have no idea wtf this is supposed to mean and I don't know where to start...

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9097273



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

"Hey, let's all get unequally educated, because the system is 'flawed' and people are different. If you can't get good grades, you can't have a better life."

Kinda sounds like evil capitalist reasoning that sticks with kids as they become adults.

Can't wait for classes where the smart kids are ignored so the less intelligent kids can have all the one on one time. I'm sure after 10-12 years of that, and after generations, those kids are going to have the collective brains and drive to truly change the world.

Why is everything a pendulum with you?  Everything must swing to the extreme opposite end of any statement we make.

Can you tall us how our ideas for college student loan debt forgiveness and socialized post-secondary education directly correlates to "classes where the smart kids are ignored so the less intelligent kids can have all the one on one time"?  You are debating about something we are not.

You also don't seem to understand the concept of social equity (look it up).  I already stated that you mischaracterize my stance on who is a valid member and contributor of a society. 

My bad. I learned earlier from a conversation with you that was what we were doing here. Seems like that carried through to now unfortunately. 

Now that the, core problem, has been solved, we should be able to move forward without issue, possibly.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

SpokenTruth said:
tsogud said:

Interacting with you should be considered an art from because I have no idea wtf this is supposed to mean and I don't know where to start...

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9097273

Enough with the compliments, please. You're going to make me start thinking I'm better than others. Shame on you.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

RJTM1991 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Dude, you need to recognize the difference between an economy and a government power.  Socialism is an economic system.  The problems in Venezuela are governmental. Yes, their economy has many aspects of socialism but it is the government itself (who controls that economy through authoritative means) that is the cause of their strife.

But please, tell us again how it is socialism itself that is the problem.  We'll wait.

Hmm, who to believe... A Venezuelan or a guy who lives in a bubble on a gaming forum?

HMM... Who. To. Believe?

I'm going with the guy who has been there and knows what he's talking about.

Who to believe a Swede or a Venezuelan.  

Clearly the one who backs my opinion even if all the facts don't line up.  



the-pi-guy said:
RJTM1991 said:

Hmm, who to believe... A Venezuelan or a guy who lives in a bubble on a gaming forum?

HMM... Who. To. Believe?

I'm going with the guy who has been there and knows what he's talking about.

Who to believe a Swede or a Venezuelan.  

Clearly the one who backs my opinion even if all the facts don't line up.  

Well, the subject was Socialism, and when it comes to that, who better to listen to than a Venezuelan? 

Anyway, are there any examples of a Socialist Utopia? I'd really like to see proof of concept here.



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RJTM1991 said:
the-pi-guy said:

Who to believe a Swede or a Venezuelan.  

Clearly the one who backs my opinion even if all the facts don't line up. 

Well, the subject was Socialism, and when it comes to that, who better to listen to than a Venezuelan? 

Anyway, are there any examples of a Socialist Utopia? I'd really like to see proof of concept here.

Context was about Western Europe's socialistic segments. 

Considering in that context there are dozens of examples that do fine.  



the-pi-guy said:
RJTM1991 said:

Well, the subject was Socialism, and when it comes to that, who better to listen to than a Venezuelan? 

Anyway, are there any examples of a Socialist Utopia? I'd really like to see proof of concept here.

Context was about Western Europe's socialistic segments. 

Considering in that context there are dozens of examples that do fine.  

Where? 

I'd really like to see an example that ends any and all anti-Socialist arguments. 



SpokenTruth said:
Baalzamon said:
I keep seeing Europe and mention of their free schooling as justification for the current suggestion of just forgiving all these student loans.

You are comparing a process that is already in place, and everybody has the process to now take advantage of...to a process that only impacts the people who made worse decisions.

I know we have already had this discussion, but what exactly happens to the people who made shitty decisions, and just get all of that debt forgiven? What sort of life lesson does that teach them?

That our hyper-capitalistic society that profits from debt is failing us and that it celebrates profit generation over education.


"Hey, let's all get educated for the betterment of society but only if you can afford it.  If you can't afford it, you can't help further our progress."

Are we just going to ignore the fact that K-12 is already socialized?  I'd really love to hear 1 solid reason why it should end there. 

Yeah it is just insane how it is even possible in America to make such profits on the back of people that still need to grow up mentally and sometimes put them in them in debt for a good amount of years ofcourse i'm not saying that everyone should pay for everyones educations but firstly the prices for it and the whole profiting from it should be toned down by a lot,most of those educations can be much cheaper.

And when it gets cheaper it wont be such a big deal to pay some for the benefit of all,like here in Europe.

But it always saddens me when i think of so many people still so early in their lives being worried about money.



Baalzamon said:
I keep seeing Europe and mention of their free schooling as justification for the current suggestion of just forgiving all these student loans.

You are comparing a process that is already in place, and everybody has the process to now take advantage of...to a process that only impacts the people who made worse decisions.

I know we have already had this discussion, but what exactly happens to the people who made shitty decisions, and just get all of that debt forgiven? What sort of life lesson does that teach them?

So, just because the process hasn't been in place in the US yet, it should never be implemented? Because that's what you are implying here.

RJTM1991 said:
It's always the same type of people who peddle Socialism, isn't it? Middle-class, coddled, privileged, out of touch... They'll preach about Socialism from their iPhones and iPads, completely oblivious to the fact that they all benefit from Capitalism every single day.

The overwhelming number of people who've fled from broken countries always try to shine a light on the horrors of Socialism. There's a near-endless amount of videos and news articles online, but no-one listens to them.

A damn shame.

Then have a look on videos of Americans that went to any European country. Most of them don't want to go back to the US to live there ever again as it's hypercaptilalistic dog eat dog mentality is horrifying them now that they got to know what a social safety net like those in Europe really is.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 25 January 2020

EricHiggin said:

This is why socialism doesn't work well, even in smaller doses. Most people who are intelligent, hard working, good decision makers, etc, won't put up with this. It's one thing to help the needy on a personal level, and another for Gov to heavily promote making bad decisions. The more socialist idea's that get implemented, the more the people propping everyone else up will stop caring, and soon enough you run out of money because literally everyone expects free Gov handouts. Why bother trying to make something of yourself now, when all you need to do is bide your time until you can have your mistakes and poor decisions erased by some politician?

The unfortunate truth is that people need to learn, and sometimes the hard way, which is baked into capitalism.

RJTM1991 said:
It's always the same type of people who peddle Socialism, isn't it? Middle-class, coddled, privileged, out of touch... They'll preach about Socialism from their iPhones and iPads, completely oblivious to the fact that they all benefit from Capitalism every single day.

The overwhelming number of people who've fled from broken countries always try to shine a light on the horrors of Socialism. There's a near-endless amount of videos and news articles online, but no-one listens to them.

A damn shame.

Well, the guy in the video is not arguing for or against socialism, I am not sure why the conversation took that turn. Overall, education should be free and run by the government so that it sucks harder and harder.

I believe people should stop going to universities because universities are on their way out anyway. It's 2020 and education has not been revolutionized yet, sitting in a class with a bunch of people listening to someone who is most likely not the best at teaching what he teaches is such a damn waste of time when you can just watch someone else that teaches the same thing but in a way that's tailored to your taste online.

Those universities are pretending to be the gate keepers for knowledge when they are not, setting the rules for success when they shouldn't be. Instead, you can, for example, develop standardized tests for all scientific fields and as long as the students pass these tests give them the certificate, you can also ask students for projects that can be reviewed by a panel. I am sure there are better 10000 ways by which you can prove your qualifications and worth that smarter people can think of, the way universities operate is retarded at this point.

One thing that can commend the tech industry for is that they have stopped caring about which university you have went to, as long as you can show them you are fit for the job, you get it, I know for a fact that google and facebook hires on experience alone, university degrees are not in their requirements.

Ever going companies in Silicon Valley achieve so much because of their open mindedness. I can't wait for them to conquer healthcare and education and every heavily regulated field, and eliminate people's misplaced dependency on university degrees.

Finally, I just like to point out the reason university fees have sky rocket because of the government. It was always a terrible idea to loan immature people huge sums of money and let them spend it on useless degrees, you could've at least ensured that they received the right guidance regarding the labor market, but nope, something American Universities couldn't be happier about. They've become obscenely wealthy because someone is always footing the bill, either the government or the students. It's safe to assume that these universities are also "meddling" in setting policies that serve them just like any other giant corporation.

the-pi-guy said:

You're right Eric. Socialism won't work in  America because we are greedy, selfish unemphatic  people only looking out for ourselves. 

The point of paying off the debt is about helping people who weren't able to pay for schooling. You have to be doing halfway decently to pay your way through school, or able to pay off your debt afterwards. 

Who needs the money more: a millionaire who paid their way through college because they can afford it. Or a family under the poverty line who went in debt to try better themselves. 

>The unfortunate truth is that people need to learn, and sometimes the hard way, which is baked into capitalism.

Because people should suffer the rest of their life for trying to improve their lives. 

Sure, I get debt forgiveness, I am all for it. But the guy in the video has every right to complain, he worked twice or three times as hard just to pay off his daughter's debt. We should discuss what to do for people like him. Where is the harm? 

tsogud said:

Lmao nope. I wouldn't describe that man as any of those descriptions you listed.

All I see is a supposedly "grown" ass man being selfish and throwing a temper tantrum because society is improving.

I guess we shouldn't find a cure for cancer because it wouldn't be fair to those who had died from it before.

A mature, intelligent, compassionate and empathetic person would want others to have it easier than they did especially when they know how tough it could be and how much worse other people have it.

Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better.

I disagree, we don't know his circumstances. To dismiss him as an immature person when he played by the rules and did his best to not to break the law is not fair. Especially that he lives in a country in which you never have extra money, you're one medical condition away from poverty. Spending his savings to pay off debts is commendable. 

Liz dismissed him as well when she could've acknowledged the pain debt has caused him by simply saying: "I can see that you're a hard working person, who suffered due to students loans, and sacrificed so much just to pay them off, we should definitely have a conversation about people in similar shoes as yours and see how we can help them".

It's Liz who was immature in the way she responded, dismissive and unsympathetic with no real answer to his question. 

Baalzamon said:
I keep seeing Europe and mention of their free schooling as justification for the current suggestion of just forgiving all these student loans.

You are comparing a process that is already in place, and everybody has the process to now take advantage of...to a process that only impacts the people who made worse decisions.

I know we have already had this discussion, but what exactly happens to the people who made shitty decisions, and just get all of that debt forgiven? What sort of life lesson does that teach them?

Or we simply reward those who paid their debts or ensure what they did doesn't go unrewarded.

Why are people for debt forgiveness but not for reparations for people who suffered under the same exact money sucking scheme? We are already talking about "trillions" amount of money, it's already "too expensive". Might as well compensate everyone. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 25 January 2020