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EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:
You quoted it, highlighted it and copied it but still didn't elaborate on the connection. Do you have a connection to make or are you just reaching?

You want a more equal society, yet you're ok with teaching kids growing up, that it's ok if not great to use their capabilities and the school system to do better for themselves in comparison to others?

Then once they're done school, you want to teach them that was all B.S, and that they aren't any better than anyone else, and need to blend in or pay the price to others for trying to be better than them?

Ah, reaching then.  Because not only is that irrelevant to the original discussion (it's damn near a non-sequitur) it's also a horrible mischaracterization of my stance on who is a valid member and contributor of a society.

Do you intentionally reach for these hot takes?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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RJTM1991 said:

Smart girls, but what they specialize in isn't needed. Again, it goes back to telling kids that they can be anything they want.

Then who is truly at fault here?  People hoping...and working their asses off...to live out a dream?  Or the society that lied to them about the relevance of their ambitions to that society?  You're a kid going into college, not an expert on labor markets.

If we tell somebody growing up that they can be anything and they fight and work hard to become it only to learn we lied to them the whole time....aren't we just as responsible for that mess? 

If I tell someone the carpet is safe to walk on and then I yank the carpet out from under them...I'm going to help them back up.  Saying they shouldn't have been stupid enough to walk on the carpet to begin with is passing blame instead of owning up. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

EricHiggin said:
LurkerJ said:

A father confronted Warren during an event in Grimes, Iowa, on Monday about her plan to roll back student loan debt for “about 95 percent of students who have debt.” “I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I’ve saved all my money. She doesn’t have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?” he asked.

“Of course not,” Warren replied.

“So you’re going to pay for people who didn’t save any money and those of us who did the right thing get screwed?” he asked. “My buddy had fun, bought a car, and went on all the vacations, I saved my money. He makes more than I did. I worked a double shift,” the man pressed before accusing Warren of not taking him seriously. “You’re laughing at me,” he said. “Yeah that’s exactly what you’re doing. We did the right thing and we get screwed.”

“I appreciate your time,” Warren stated as he walked away

I think this man makes a valid point and there a discussion to be had about debt forgiveness for those who already paid their debts. 

This is why socialism doesn't work well, even in smaller doses. Most people who are intelligent, hard working, good decision makers, etc, won't put up with this. It's one thing to help the needy on a personal level, and another for Gov to heavily promote making bad decisions. The more socialist idea's that get implemented, the more the people propping everyone else up will stop caring, and soon enough you run out of money because literally everyone expects free Gov handouts. Why bother trying to make something of yourself now, when all you need to do is bide your time until you can have your mistakes and poor decisions erased by some politician?

The unfortunate truth is that people need to learn, and sometimes the hard way, which is baked into capitalism.

Lmao nope. I wouldn't describe that man as any of those descriptions you listed.

All I see is a supposedly "grown" ass man being selfish and throwing a temper tantrum because society is improving.

I guess we shouldn't find a cure for cancer because it wouldn't be fair to those who had died from it before.

A mature, intelligent, compassionate and empathetic person would want others to have it easier than they did especially when they know how tough it could be and how much worse other people have it.

Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better.



 

SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

You want a more equal society, yet you're ok with teaching kids growing up, that it's ok if not great to use their capabilities and the school system to do better for themselves in comparison to others?

Then once they're done school, you want to teach them that was all B.S, and that they aren't any better than anyone else, and need to blend in or pay the price to others for trying to be better than them?

Ah, reaching then.  Because not only is that irrelevant to the original discussion (it's damn near a non-sequitur) it's also a horrible mischaracterization of my stance on who is a valid member and contributor of a society.

Do you intentionally reach for these hot takes?

SpokenTruth said:
Baalzamon said:
I keep seeing Europe and mention of their free schooling as justification for the current suggestion of just forgiving all these student loans.

You are comparing a process that is already in place, and everybody has the process to now take advantage of...to a process that only impacts the people who made worse decisions.

I know we have already had this discussion, but what exactly happens to the people who made shitty decisions, and just get all of that debt forgiven? What sort of life lesson does that teach them?

That our hyper-capitalistic society that profits from debt is failing us and that it celebrates profit generation over education.


"Hey, let's all get educated for the betterment of society but only if you can afford it.  If you can't afford it, you can't help further our progress."

Are we just going to ignore the fact that K-12 is already socialized?  I'd really love to hear 1 solid reason why it should end there. 

"Hey, let's all get unequally educated, because the system is 'flawed' and people are different. If you can't get good grades, you can't have a better life."

Kinda sounds like evil capitalist reasoning that sticks with kids as they become adults...

Can't wait for classes where the smart kids are ignored so the less intelligent kids can have all the one on one time. I'm sure after 10-12 years of that, and after generations, those kids are going to have the collective brains and drive to truly change the world.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

RJTM1991 said:
It's always the same type of people who peddle Socialism, isn't it? Middle-class, coddled, privileged, out of touch... They'll preach about Socialism from their iPhones and iPads, completely oblivious to the fact that they all benefit from Capitalism every single day.

The overwhelming number of people who've fled from broken countries always try to shine a light on the horrors of Socialism. There's a near-endless amount of videos and news articles online, but no-one listens to them.

A damn shame.

That's a nice little generalization you got there... Be a shame if I... existed.



 

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tsogud said:
EricHiggin said:

This is why socialism doesn't work well, even in smaller doses. Most people who are intelligent, hard working, good decision makers, etc, won't put up with this. It's one thing to help the needy on a personal level, and another for Gov to heavily promote making bad decisions. The more socialist idea's that get implemented, the more the people propping everyone else up will stop caring, and soon enough you run out of money because literally everyone expects free Gov handouts. Why bother trying to make something of yourself now, when all you need to do is bide your time until you can have your mistakes and poor decisions erased by some politician?

The unfortunate truth is that people need to learn, and sometimes the hard way, which is baked into capitalism.

Lmao nope. I wouldn't describe that man as any of those descriptions you listed.

All I see is a supposedly "grown" ass man being selfish and throwing a temper tantrum because society is improving.

I guess we shouldn't find a cure for cancer because it wouldn't be fair to those who had died from it before.

A mature, intelligent, compassionate and empathetic person would want others to have it easier than they did especially when they know how tough it could be and how much worse other people have it.

Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better.

"Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better."

The youngest most hardcore capitalists agree with you, because after all is said and done, they become richer than they could have ever imagined. People in need are 'friends' indeed.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

Smart girls, but what they specialize in isn't needed. Again, it goes back to telling kids that they can be anything they want.

Then who is truly at fault here?  People hoping...and working their asses off...to live out a dream?  Or the society that lied to them about the relevance of their ambitions to that society?  You're a kid going into college, not an expert on labor markets.

If we tell somebody growing up that they can be anything and they fight and work hard to become it only to learn we lied to them the whole time....aren't we just as responsible for that mess? 

If I tell someone the carpet is safe to walk on and then I yank the carpet out from under them...I'm going to help them back up.  Saying they shouldn't have been stupid enough to walk on the carpet to begin with is passing blame instead of owning up. 

It's harsh, but both, I'd say.

Sure, the system is rigged against the people on the bottom, but you should always have a back-up plan. By all means, take gender studies or art or whatever else, but choose something solid as your main course. Like me. Stupidly took on art and only art. Whereas I should've taken on plumbing or something else and kept the art as a secondary.

Jobs like that are always in demand. Any debt could've been repaid in a couple months, maybe a year. But work as an artist or a writer or whatever is almost always low-paying and that's probably why people get stuck in a rut.



tsogud said:
RJTM1991 said:
It's always the same type of people who peddle Socialism, isn't it? Middle-class, coddled, privileged, out of touch... They'll preach about Socialism from their iPhones and iPads, completely oblivious to the fact that they all benefit from Capitalism every single day.

The overwhelming number of people who've fled from broken countries always try to shine a light on the horrors of Socialism. There's a near-endless amount of videos and news articles online, but no-one listens to them.

A damn shame.

That's a nice little generalization you got there... Be a shame if I... existed.

No offense, my man. That's just all I see on social media. You can always tell the ones who are serious from the ones hopping on a bandwagon.



EricHiggin said:
SpokenTruth said:

Ah, reaching then.  Because not only is that irrelevant to the original discussion (it's damn near a non-sequitur) it's also a horrible mischaracterization of my stance on who is a valid member and contributor of a society.

Do you intentionally reach for these hot takes?

SpokenTruth said:

That our hyper-capitalistic society that profits from debt is failing us and that it celebrates profit generation over education.


"Hey, let's all get educated for the betterment of society but only if you can afford it.  If you can't afford it, you can't help further our progress."

Are we just going to ignore the fact that K-12 is already socialized?  I'd really love to hear 1 solid reason why it should end there. 

"Hey, let's all get unequally educated, because the system is 'flawed' and people are different. If you can't get good grades, you can't have a better life."

Kinda sounds like evil capitalist reasoning that sticks with kids as they become adults.

Can't wait for classes where the smart kids are ignored so the less intelligent kids can have all the one on one time. I'm sure after 10-12 years of that, and after generations, those kids are going to have the collective brains and drive to truly change the world.

Why is everything a pendulum with you?  Everything must swing to the extreme opposite end of any statement we make.

Can you tall us how our ideas for college student loan debt forgiveness and socialized post-secondary education directly correlates to "classes where the smart kids are ignored so the less intelligent kids can have all the one on one time"?  You are debating about something we are not.

You also don't seem to understand the concept of social equity (look it up).  I already stated that you mischaracterize my stance on who is a valid member and contributor of a society. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

EricHiggin said:
tsogud said:

Lmao nope. I wouldn't describe that man as any of those descriptions you listed.

All I see is a supposedly "grown" ass man being selfish and throwing a temper tantrum because society is improving.

I guess we shouldn't find a cure for cancer because it wouldn't be fair to those who had died from it before.

A mature, intelligent, compassionate and empathetic person would want others to have it easier than they did especially when they know how tough it could be and how much worse other people have it.

Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better.

"Capitalism as we used to know it is on it's way out and it's for the better."

The youngest most hardcore capitalists agree with you, because after all is said and done, they become richer than they could have ever imagined. People in need are 'friends' indeed.

Interacting with you should be considered an art form because I have no idea wtf this is supposed to mean and I don't know where to start...

Last edited by tsogud - on 24 January 2020