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RJTM1991 said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Then I guess you need to get a few more years under your belt!

I see as usual, you just respond to the parts that you can think of an evasive answer to...

You also call him condescending then tell me to 'calm down'... Again the hypocrisy is hilarious.

Oh, you sure showed me. How can I possibly recover from such a horrific burn? - That's condescending. Telling you to calm down when you're making a mountain out of a molehill isn't.

I answered your question in that one sentence.

I really wasn't going for a 'burn' - I was simply following the rationale set out by yourself. If your username is based on DOB then you're only 29 - which is quite young...

You didn't respond to my point re. the hypocrisy in telling others not to pigeon-hole. So no, you didn't answer that in one sentence... If I have to point this simple fact out twice then I fear there is no hope in debating in an honest & constructive way.



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Biggerboat1 said:
RJTM1991 said:

I just can't get away with this. How noble of Bernie to vote against a pay increase. I mean, he could've taken his millions and donated them to a cause, set an example, instead, he bought two more houses.

B-but he still wants to tax himself at a greater rate!!

Come on, man.

You seem to choose to view everything in such a binary way in order to maintain your continual faux outrage.

You can easily poo-poo every single candidate for not being Christ reborn but that attitude doesn't really get you/us anywhere.

Is Bernie perfect? No. Is he better than what the US currently has in the White House. Well, I guess that depends on where you stand policy-wise, but from an integrity stand-point there's no credible way to not have Bernie ahead!

I'm not an expert on US politics but can you point out where Bernie has said that it's against his principles for a person to a) own more than one house or b) to become a millionaire? Because if he hasn't said those things then all you're doing is projecting your simplistic definition of socialsim on to a person who describes himself as a democratic socialist.

He himself says that he is not tied to Marxism or the abolition of capitalism but rather wants a program of extensive social benefits, funded by taxes.

So if you can't provide that evidence, please desist with the straw man arguments.

Can I also ask - where do you align yourself politically? If you made millions of dollars would you give it away?

I guess everyone can choose to tear their hair out over the US political system, but again, where does it get anyone? All we can do is try to nudge the tanker in the right direction by voting for the lesser of 2 evils (if you want to take the cynical view), who knows, maybe enough nudges over enough elections will improve things somewhat...

Faux outrage? You couldn't be more wrong. Can't be bothered getting into that 'cause I've said just about everything I wanted to say in this thread.

Bernie is weak. The Democrats have rigged the game against him and he does nothing about it.

Politically, I'm on neither side. Both major parties have their good points, but the bad outweigh them.

With money, I'd keep enough to ensure that those I cared about would never need anything, but I'd 100% give the rest away. Shit, I do that even without millions in the bank.



SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

1. Typical Champagne Socialist.

2. Still a millionaire.

3. No he doesn't.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evye3j/bernie-reportedly-doesnt-pay-his-staff-the-dollar15-minimum-wage-hes-so-into

He was negotiating only after staff went public.

1). Typical of your ignorance.  House number 1 is a default...or you think a democratic socialist should not own a house to start with.  House 2 came with the book deal.  He has decades of experience in US government and damn near became the first Jewish and first democratic socialist candidate in the nation's 240 year history. You don't think he was going to be approached for a book deal?  House 3 has not a damn thing to do with champagne or socialism as most senators and many representatives own or rent a home in DC as part of their jobs.  Or should they commute from their home state to DC every work day?

2). Doesn't make him a hypocrite.  But I'm willing to listen how he applying his own policies against himself makes him a hypocrite.

3). Yes.  Yes, he does.  Look at the damn date on your link.  Look how old that is.  If you're going to debate, recency of data is pretty important.

RJTM1991 said:

Always meant to ask, what new sites do you visit? Are you the type who tries to see things from other people's point of view, or do you stick to Liberal biased sites?

My primary news comes from the box labeled "Most reliable for news". For research, I'll move down the into each side of the inverted V for factual reporting.  I stay away from editorials completely.

RJTM1991 said:

I just can't get away with this. How noble of Bernie to vote against a pay increase. I mean, he could've taken his millions and donated them to a cause, set an example, instead, he bought two more houses.

B-but he still wants to tax himself at a greater rate!!

Come on, man.

I just told you he only recently became a millionaire because of the book deal after the 2016 election.  You keep posting as though he's always been a millionaire.  And 1 of his houses was part of the book deal.  I just frikkin told you that.   You don't listen.

And he does donate to charity. Not sure why you ignore that completely. But more to the point is that he wants his taxes to BE his charitable contribution. Why do you have such a hard time understanding this concept?  Full healthcare, higher federal minimum wage, access to public colleges?  That IS his charity.  And he's been fighting for it...even getting arrested as an activist when younger...for decades.

RJTM1991 said:

Well, I stand corrected. I was wrong there.

Still don't understand why he needs three homes though. Again, if he wanted to set an example and truly open people's eyes, then he should've donated his money to charity or helped the inner cities. But no, I suppose having three houses is more important.

Reminds me a lot of -

Now you're just being ignorant.  You questioned my media preferences yet you post that?

ALL this and we've already had this entire conversation before a couple of months ago.  This is proof you have no interest in truth or correcting false pretexts, we're done here.

On spineless Bernie:

>you: look at the damn date on your link, look how old that is!

>the link I posted was from July last year

>Bernie became a millionaire in 2016

>you: only recently!

I remember having a discussion with a guy on here a couple days ago who posted a 9 year-old link in response to my questions about Dems keeping the black community down. I should've pulled the "recency data" card on him. Damn.

Here's a wee parting present, have a laugh!

https://fee.org/articles/bernie-sanders-joins-the-1-does-that-make-him-a-hypocrite/

That chart is an absolute joke by the way. "Most reliable news" give me a fucking break. Not one of them paint Conservatives in a positive light.



RJTM1991 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

That was supposed to be over $15 per hour. But with a fixed monthly amount, if you work more than 40 hours then the amount you gain per hour naturally decreases.

Oh, and he negotiated beforehand already, and that is clearly mentioned in the article you linked. Through his campaign manager, his proposition was $42000 which would have given them about $15.5 if they had $13 with $36000 and the same amount of hours per month. But for the union this wasn't enough and they suggested $46800 instead due to higher healthcare premiums with that salary (which would be a salary of $16.9 per hour, assuming same work hours as before).

At 40 hours per week, $32.5k would have been enough to get you over $15 (assuming 180 hours per month) and $36k would be $16.67 per hour. However, from the 2016 campaign he should have known that they work way more than 40 hours per week, so that's on him.

Well, I stand corrected. I was wrong there.

Still don't understand why he needs three homes though. Again, if he wanted to set an example and truly open people's eyes, then he should've donated his money to charity or helped the inner cities. But no, I suppose having three houses is more important.

Reminds me a lot of -

Have you checked what and where those houses are? Certainly doesn't look so.

He has one House in Burlington through his wife, one on Capitol Hill for Work in the Senate... and the last one is only a summer house, a cottage to rest by the lake

Here's his house in Burlington, the biggest int he bunch and only permanent residence:

Here is his home om Capitol Hill. Really tiny, but he doesn't need to commute to go to work in the senate with this one.

And this is his summer house:

He does have three houses, but only one of them can really be considered a home.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
RJTM1991 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

That was supposed to be over $15 per hour. But with a fixed monthly amount, if you work more than 40 hours then the amount you gain per hour naturally decreases.

Oh, and he negotiated beforehand already, and that is clearly mentioned in the article you linked. Through his campaign manager, his proposition was $42000 which would have given them about $15.5 if they had $13 with $36000 and the same amount of hours per month. But for the union this wasn't enough and they suggested $46800 instead due to higher healthcare premiums with that salary (which would be a salary of $16.9 per hour, assuming same work hours as before).

At 40 hours per week, $32.5k would have been enough to get you over $15 (assuming 180 hours per month) and $36k would be $16.67 per hour. However, from the 2016 campaign he should have known that they work way more than 40 hours per week, so that's on him.

Well, I stand corrected. I was wrong there.

Still don't understand why he needs three homes though. Again, if he wanted to set an example and truly open people's eyes, then he should've donated his money to charity or helped the inner cities. But no, I suppose having three houses is more important.

Reminds me a lot of -

Have you checked what and where those houses are? Certainly doesn't look so.

He has one House in Burlington through his wife, one on Capitol Hill for Work in the Senate... and the last one is only a summer house, a cottage to rest by the lake

Here's his house in Burlington, the biggest int he bunch and only permanent residence:

Here is his home om Capitol Hill. Really tiny, but he doesn't need to commute to go to work in the senate with this one.

And this is his summer house:

He does have three houses, but only one of them can really be considered a home.

Well, those are lovely. Certainly couldn't get any of them on $15 an hour!

thread banned pi-guy due to this post and others.

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 13 February 2020

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Immersiveunreality said:
Runa216 said:
I think it needs to be noted that actions speak louder than words. you can SAY you're not bigoted all you want, but when you vote for and support people who campaign on outright bigotry and xenophobia and homophobia, that speaks volumes to your character more than crying foul about being improperly judged ever will. If you don't want to be seen as bigoted, then don't spout hateful rhetoric or support people who do.

And same for those that want others to behave in a certain way and spout this and that about all the different kinds of bad if the only thing making them good is that silly vote then they need to get to work,it is so damn lazy to solely be a keyboardwarrior and the worst thing about it is that it only drives people apart and that judging and belittling makes you rarely convince anyone. I do not know who in here is sincere or not but those that do not actively try to make a difference might just be here to smugly boost their own ego and yeah those are part of the problem.

Also people firstly blindly vote for anything and secondly Trump has many decent people that voted for him too without any hatefull intentions,your image of the world and its people is a bit unrealistic negative imo.

I actually have a very positive outlook on the world. Globally, we're doing better than we ever have been...but if you voted for Trump, you tacitly endorsed regression, bigotry, and ignorance. That's just what that actually means. It doesn't matter your intent or outside behaviour, if you voted for someone who campaigned on bigotry, you support bigotry. That's, like, a fundamental truth of the situation, and saying otherwise is doing a great disservice to the idea of accountability and democracy. 



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SpokenTruth said:
RJTM1991 said:

On spineless Bernie:

>you: look at the damn date on your link, look how old that is!

>the link I posted was from July last year

>Bernie became a millionaire in 2016

>you: only recently!

I remember having a discussion with a guy on here a couple days ago who posted a 9 year-old link in response to my questions about Dems keeping the black community down. I should've pulled the "recency data" card on him. Damn.

Here's a wee parting present, have a laugh!

https://fee.org/articles/bernie-sanders-joins-the-1-does-that-make-him-a-hypocrite/

That chart is an absolute joke by the way. "Most reliable news" give me a fucking break. Not one of them paint Conservatives in a positive light.

Those are 2 different things. Your link was about his staff and $15 per hour, not his book deal. 

And recency refers to being the most up to date information.  It's a relative factor, not absolute. 

Your link is a laugh.  It uses satire as part of its debate.  It even says so.

And my chart has several conservative media outlets in the most reliable box...or do you not understand how to read the chart? 

You yapped about how a link that isn't even a year old is, well, old, despite saying that Bernie became a millionaire recently, in 2016. I thought it was a bit comical to be honest. You've got your script and stick to it.

I also said "have a laugh." Meaning, have a laugh. You don't get humour, do you? You must slaughter at parties.

I do have a couple questions, seeing as I'm totally dumb to American politics.

So Bernie...

1. Doesn't want his money

2. Wants to pay more taxes

Are these policies up and running? Has his Socialist dream already been realized?

Because, otherwise, this is a total punchline. It's one thing to say you'll do these things, it's another thing to, you know, actually do it. Guy's weak, just had a heart attack, and is being buried by his own party. He won't win. America won't ever be a Socialist country. He'll die a millionaire.

So, as it stands, Bernie is a hypocrite. A multi-millionaire Champagne Socialist with three houses. No better than the millionaires that he campaigns against. As a Senator, he already has massive power, so he could donate his millions to charities or help rebuild inner-cities. He could easily house immigrants in his second house as well. He could lead by example and would utterly destroy Trump and his competition should he do it. He'd be seen as The People's Champion.

But he won't. Why is that?



RJTM1991 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Those are 2 different things. Your link was about his staff and $15 per hour, not his book deal. 

And recency refers to being the most up to date information.  It's a relative factor, not absolute. 

Your link is a laugh.  It uses satire as part of its debate.  It even says so.

And my chart has several conservative media outlets in the most reliable box...or do you not understand how to read the chart? 

You yapped about how a link that isn't even a year old is, well, old, despite saying that Bernie became a millionaire recently, in 2016. I thought it was a bit comical to be honest. You've got your script and stick to it.

I also said "have a laugh." Meaning, have a laugh. You don't get humour, do you? You must slaughter at parties.

I do have a couple questions, seeing as I'm totally dumb to American politics.

So Bernie...

1. Doesn't want his money

2. Wants to pay more taxes

Are these policies up and running? Has his Socialist dream already been realized?

Because, otherwise, this is a total punchline. It's one thing to say you'll do these things, it's another thing to, you know, actually do it. Guy's weak, just had a heart attack, and is being buried by his own party. He won't win. America won't ever be a Socialist country. He'll die a millionaire.

So, as it stands, Bernie is a hypocrite. A multi-millionaire Champagne Socialist with three houses. No better than the millionaires that he campaigns against. As a Senator, he already has massive power, so he could donate his millions to charities or help rebuild inner-cities. He could easily house immigrants in his second house as well. He could lead by example and would utterly destroy Trump and his competition should he do it. He'd be seen as The People's Champion.

But he won't. Why is that?

Man, you're like a broken record.

1. He's never said he doesn't want his money - and just his money would make ZERO difference at a national level.

2. He wants to tax at a national level to provide improved services.

These points are not mutually exclusive so just stop.

Your arguments are so full of broken logic that it's like trying to untangle a knot of wires...

I, and others have outlined in broad strokes what Bernie wants for the US and it isn't a socialism dream. You've been corrected on this multiple times and yet persist to trot out the same hubris...

Am I correct in thinking you're from the UK? If so, I'm assuming you think we're way too left, as Bernie's America would still be right of us...

Though, that stance wouldn't make a lot of sense as you profess to give most of your money away if you had it, which seems decidedly progressive...

I really don't know what your underlying motivation is, other than to shit on everything.



Biggerboat1 said:
RJTM1991 said:

You yapped about how a link that isn't even a year old is, well, old, despite saying that Bernie became a millionaire recently, in 2016. I thought it was a bit comical to be honest. You've got your script and stick to it.

I also said "have a laugh." Meaning, have a laugh. You don't get humour, do you? You must slaughter at parties.

I do have a couple questions, seeing as I'm totally dumb to American politics.

So Bernie...

1. Doesn't want his money

2. Wants to pay more taxes

Are these policies up and running? Has his Socialist dream already been realized?

Because, otherwise, this is a total punchline. It's one thing to say you'll do these things, it's another thing to, you know, actually do it. Guy's weak, just had a heart attack, and is being buried by his own party. He won't win. America won't ever be a Socialist country. He'll die a millionaire.

So, as it stands, Bernie is a hypocrite. A multi-millionaire Champagne Socialist with three houses. No better than the millionaires that he campaigns against. As a Senator, he already has massive power, so he could donate his millions to charities or help rebuild inner-cities. He could easily house immigrants in his second house as well. He could lead by example and would utterly destroy Trump and his competition should he do it. He'd be seen as The People's Champion.

But he won't. Why is that?

Man, you're like a broken record.

1. He's never said he doesn't want his money - and just his money would make ZERO difference at a national level.

2. He wants to tax at a national level to provide improved services.

These points are not mutually exclusive so just stop.

Your arguments are so full of broken logic that it's like trying to untangle a knot of wires...

I, and others have outlined in broad strokes what Bernie wants for the US and it isn't a socialism dream. You've been corrected on this multiple times and yet persist to trot out the same hubris...

Am I correct in thinking you're from the UK? If so, I'm assuming you think we're way too left, as Bernie's America would still be right of us...

Though, that stance wouldn't make a lot of sense as you profess to give most of your money away if you had it, which seems decidedly progressive...

I really don't know what your underlying motivation is, other than to shit on everything.

It's not broken logic. It's true. Why do you think the Dems don't even want anything to do with him?

You can white knight him all you want, but it is what it is.



SpokenTruth said:
Bandorr said:

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Foundation_for_Economic_Education

The Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) is a right-wing 5013 educational foundation

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foundation-for-economic-education/

"Overall, we rate The Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) Right-Center biased based on left leaning views regarding social issues and far right views pertaining to economics"

The irony of him calling into question my sources, him using biased sources and then not understanding how to read a chart specifically designed to illustrate reliable media outlets across the full spectrum.

>not understanding how to read a chart

Here you are again with the condescending patter. 

CNN, Vox, BuzzFeed = SKEW LEFT?

No. Just, no. That shit is divisive, poisonous propaganda. Change the channel to CNN right now and I guarantee Trump will be on. Vox and BuzzFeed routinely push "woke" pandering bullshit and don't hide their bias either. Don't even get me started on the BBC.

Why are Liberals always painted so positively in charts and surveys but Conservatives aren't? Is this where the smug sense of fart-huffing self-importance comes from?