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JRPGfan said:
AsGryffynn said:

Seems some people are confused... tell me... if Trump diverted aid away and then called the President, why does this establish a link between one and the other? Is this even illegal? He's doing stuff that has been done in the past without impeachment! 

Like phoning the Costa Rican president to tell them that using the UN was pointless when Costa Rica was still an unstable mess. 

If he's extorting Ukrine, to use its intelligence agency to gather information on his behalf, on opponents to win a 2020 election.
And useing the threat, of no longer aiding Ukrine protect itself if needed, against russia.

If he sends his personal lawyer for "talks" reguarding this matter, and hes on tape/paper doing so?

Then he covered it up, by haveing them remove the written down accounts, of the call's contents.
(apparently when a president talks to other leaders around the world, theres people in the white house that write down the context of the calls ect)
(if trump did nothing wrong, why did he go against protocol, and have the accounts erased/removed?)

Thats why "if trump diverted aid away" and called a president, is a issue.
He threatend a country's saftey to get dirt on opponents, to meddle in the elections of 2020 in the USA.

To Which Ukrine actually went "okay, we'll work with you"

You really dont see any issues with this?

Now it comes down the the whistleblowers and the 6+ other that claim to have overheard the calls or seen the written accounts.
And if the senate will uphold the law, if the person that broke it is the president (if theres evidence of wrong doing).

*edit:
I'm not super into the case, and just watched abit of the hearing that was live streamed.
This is my understanding of the events, after watching that. If I'm wrong about something feel free to correct me.

A minor point of correction, but I don't think it is alleged that Trump personally tried to hide the evidence.  I think that was White House staff.



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JWeinCom said:
JRPGfan said:

A minor point of correction, but I don't think it is alleged that Trump personally tried to hide the evidence.  I think that was White House staff.

When your the president you dont do manual labor.
He had a minion carry out his orders..... but its effectively the same thing.

He had erased/removed something against protocol that should have been in records.



JRPGfan said:
JWeinCom said:

A minor point of correction, but I don't think it is alleged that Trump personally tried to hide the evidence.  I think that was White House staff.

When your the president you dont do manual labor.
He had a minion carry out his orders..... but its effectively the same thing.

He had erased/removed something against protocol that should have been in records.

Unless he gets a hurricane map and a sharpie.



JRPGfan said:
JWeinCom said:

A minor point of correction, but I don't think it is alleged that Trump personally tried to hide the evidence.  I think that was White House staff.

When your the president you dont do manual labor.
He had a minion carry out his orders..... but its effectively the same thing.

He had erased/removed something against protocol that should have been in records.

I have not seen any allegation that he ordered this.  Remember that the people surrounding Trump are smarter than him, and probably realized the trouble before he did.



I'm happy about the impeachment. He'll never ever ever get indicted and that's okay.

The upside is - at this point, impeachment is inevitable. So this is going to go to the Senate. If the Democrats can sell their narrative to the public, this will be a hard vote for Susan Collins, Martha McSally, Cory Gardner, Thom Tillis, and any other vulnerable Senate Republican.

Best part, red-state Democrats can vote no without any repercussions, since Republicans won't indict Trump anyway.



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Trump just pulled a Kobe Bryant on Mike Pence. Lol, it would be funny.....no it would be off the charts crazy if both Trump and Pence go down on this dumb crap and Pelosi end of being President. Man you talk about comedy gold.



Two things:
1) I do not consider Youtube videos evidence unless they are a primary source (which is basically never). If they are sourcing something, provide the link to that. Otherwise, I am just getting the news as filtered through the mouth of someone whose opinion I really couldn't care any less about. If it is a primary source, then please post either time stamps or direct quotations with time stamps. Otherwise, you are just wasting everyone's time.
2) Impeachment does not require the Senate. At the moment, the House already has enough votes for impeachment, so it is highly likely that Trump will be impeached. However, conviction is handled by the Senate and it is unlikely that he will be convicted. That doesn't mean that this effort is meaningless, and the result is also not set in stone.



The_Yoda said:
HylianSwordsman said:

It's pretty damn close to 100%, yeah. I'd say the Republicans that have shown the guts to run against Trump in the primary might be somewhat of an exception, though even their politics are pretty damn heartless, so it's more like they just have a spine, they're still pretty much assholes. Maybe Kasich isn't an asshole though. He seemed alright, kind of. Schwarzenegger was also not an asshole. Sure I could dig deep and find a few not assholes, but there's only one party I have to dig all that deep for, the other it isn't really all that hard to find.

Not saying that you are, but if you are visiting echo chambers to find good Dem politicians ... well you get where I'm going.  What was your take on Hillary, did you like her?

Hated her. Crook through and through. Not every scandal about her was true, but she was as fake as they come, the most patently obviously manufactured candidate I've ever seen, and some of the scandals were true (like rigging the 2016 primary). And defending that rapist husband of hers, it's just despicable, she did that for the power. I'm no fan of Saudi Arabia and hate Trump's connections to them, but Hillary also had some very shady, very real connections to them and I'm honestly not sure that the situation in Yemen would have turned out even the slightest bit different under a Clinton presidency. She'd at least have condemned the Khashoggi killing, and probably wouldn't have ended the Iran deal so we'd not have to deal with the current tensions and commitment of troops to Saudi Arabia, but she's still a war hawk and we'd probably have a different conflict somewhere else instead. She says her constantly taking money from corporate donors doesn't affect her, but her connections to the Podesta brothers tell a different story, she's clearly a crook. I despise Trump, but if there's a silver lining to his presidency, it's that such an unprecedented crushing loss by her has destroyed her political career and done a great deal to remove some of her influence over the party. I just wish she'd stop talking and slink away into the shadows like the joke she is. I once heard her loss described as a decapitation of the Democratic Party's power structure, and indeed, such a seismic shift in their power structure hasn't been witnessed in my lifetime, and I can only see it as a good thing.



JRPGfan said:
Chrkeller said:
Senate has 54 republicans, this is a waste of time. The votes are not there.

So basically the president is above the law? because of the political views of the senate?

Yes.  The votes aren't there, nothing is going to happen.  This is ultimately will be a waste of tax payer money.

A prosecutor (as an example) won't press charges unless he/she believes there is a likelihood of a conviction.  In this case there is a zero percent change of a conviction.  



sundin13 said:
EricHiggin said:

Agent J, please, no, please, I beg you.

Orange man bad. We must defeat Drumpf.

Excuse me while I cross off another space on my Bingo board.

There simply isn't evidence that Biden committed any wrong doing. He was acting in accordance with the entire international community to encourage the removal of an incredibly corrupt prosecutor which is entirely within his purview. This whole claim is made all the more ridiculous when you consider the fact that this prosecutor was not investigating the company that Hunter Biden was involved with at the time, and in fact was one of the largest impediments to the international investigation of said company.

Its a bad argument through and through.

On the other hand, we have incredibly clear evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part.

SpokenTruth said:
sundin13 said:

Excuse me while I cross off another space on my Bingo board.

There simply isn't evidence that Biden committed any wrong doing. He was acting in accordance with the entire international community to encourage the removal of an incredibly corrupt prosecutor which is entirely within his purview. This whole claim is made all the more ridiculous when you consider the fact that this prosecutor was not investigating the company that Hunter Biden was involved with at the time, and in fact was one of the largest impediments to the international investigation of said company.

Its a bad argument through and through.

On the other hand, we have incredibly clear evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part.

And on the Trump side, you have his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani (who is not a government employee) going to the Ukraine on behalf of Trump to get dirt on Biden and establish a quid pro quo for defense money.  Even more messed up is that Trump wants his Attorney General involved in what Trump is spinning as a diplomatic issue.  But diplomatic affairs are not under the purview of AG.  That is the realm State Department.

Bofferbrauer2 said:
EricHiggin said:

Agent J, please, no, please, I beg you.

Orange man bad. We must defeat Drumpf.

Okay, go on, post the evidence that Biden or his son did something wrong. I'm waiting.

Meanwhile, we have proof that Trump and Guiliany did something wrong. He crossed the line of the law, Again.

Baalzamon said:
He did post his evidence. It was that video. Not all evidence is absolute (i.e. a video of Biden actually having a discussion with Ukraine about this scenario).

If a murderers hair is found at a crime scene, they may well be accused and found guilty of the murder, even though nobody actually saw them commit it. All of the events in the video posted are facts. That doesn't necessarily imply Biden is guilty, but it absolutely is...evidence. And it really doesn't look good for Biden either. But people have been saying this for a LONG time and the general population has ignored it, as they seem to when our leaders (besides Trump) abuse their power.

Just because I'll get some, you are just supporting Trump therefore your argument is null. Trump is scummy and guilty as hell. But so is Biden.
Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

Hillary + Russia collusion, spun as, Trump + Russia collusion, leads to, a big fat nothing burger, unlike what the Dems and MSM said it would.

Biden&Son threats against Ukraine to hide wrongdoing, spun as, Trump threats against Ukraine to hide wrongdoing. I wonder how this will turn out...

Projection, projection. Guilty until proven innocent? Naw. Guilty by initial finger pointing? Now there's a standard we can get behind!

Ahhh, so lets say that Biden is guilty of a crime, what does that have anything to do with what Trump did.  You are using the same deflection points as Trump and his base but does any of this absolve the what Trump is being accused of.

I never said Biden committed a crime. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. You can be guilty of many things.

Not sure why the entirety of the evidence is expected this quickly in a case like this. Don't the Reps get a couple months to smear before they start an investigation, and then a couple more years of continued smearing and false allegations, before the final report is released? So hard to keep track of the rules these days.

Giuliani has made it clear he has statements from numerous individuals who tried to get info from Ukraine to the US through the Embassy I believe, and it never made it through. He's going straight to the source to make sure it's heard and documented first hand.

I don't see where Trump said something that makes him guilty of a crime at this point. Since when is informing another country that they might have a problem, and should probably look into it, a problem? Just because it may potentially work out in Trumps favor, makes it a problem? What about the Clinton Foundation and the Dems when it comes to the steel dossier that led to the Russia investigation, which was handled at least partially through Ukraine? What about Biden and Ukraine and how it's coincidentally helping out his son?

If Biden did commit a crime, and he is guilty, then Trump is simply pointing out the possibility to Ukraine so they can look into it. Kinda like preventative maintenance for an assembly plant. Should employee's who see the need for looking into something before it becomes a problem, just shut their mouths and let whatever may happen, happen, as much trouble as it may cause by turning a blind eye? What if by saying something that turns out to be useful, they receive something beneficial to them?

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 26 September 2019